• We're giving away a Cyclingnews water bottle! Find out more here!

World Politics

Page 830 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Re: Re:

Bustedknuckle said:
BullsFan22 said:
python said:
this could be the1st real sign of big crapper to just about hit the fan....

in response to us downing the syrian fighter, russia is suspending the de-confliction agreement and UNILATERALLY establishing a no-fly zone for american and coalition flights
In areas where Russian aircraft are carrying out military tasks in the skies above Syria, any flying objects, including international coalition aircraft and drones found operating west of the River Euphrates, will be tracked by Russian land and air-based anti-aircraft ground systems as targets
we'll see if they are just talk...regardless, this is the 1st rather unambiguous warning.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-usa-russia-defen-idUSKBN19A1FJ?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Reuters%2FworldNews+%28Reuters+World+News%29

Putin has shown a great amount of patience and restraint here. Hats off to him for not retaliating the way Trump or Obama/Bush before him probably would have. It's obvious that there is one side that clearly knows what it wants to do in Syria, while the other side has no freaking clue. Or else they do have a clue and simply want Assad out of there and want someone else in power, no matter what ISIS does.
Could a coalition of Iran, Russia, Syria and US make quick work of ISIS? Yes, of course..Could three of the 4 then end the Syrian civil war and install an interim government w/o Assad? Sure..Will this happen? Nope.
Assad is the legitimate leader of that country. Nobody but the Syrian people should decide who will lead their country and who shouldn't. Least of all the US government.
 
Jul 5, 2009
1,733
2
0
Re: Re:

Bustedknuckle said:
Could a coalition of Iran, Russia, Syria and US make quick work of ISIS? Yes, of course..Could three of the 4 then end the Syrian civil war and install an interim government w/o Assad? Sure..Will this happen? Nope.
Why in the world would anyone but the Syrians think of installing a Syrian government. They voted for Assad, they get Assad. None of the world's business.

Some Syrian generals go to Turkey and stir up ***. Saudis, US, Israel et al jump on the bandwagon and send in ISIS to seal the deal. Lots of people die and Syria nearly collapses. Syria rallies around Assad and invite Iran and Russia to kick out the head choppers.

Iran and Russia have a clear mission and are capable. ISIS is trapped and will be slaughtered along the Euphrates in the near future. Places like Aleppo are already returning to normal. Next up is Deir Ezzor. Syria can go back to being Syria.

John Swanson
 
Re: Re:

BullsFan22 said:
Bustedknuckle said:
BullsFan22 said:
python said:
this could be the1st real sign of big crapper to just about hit the fan....

in response to us downing the syrian fighter, russia is suspending the de-confliction agreement and UNILATERALLY establishing a no-fly zone for american and coalition flights
In areas where Russian aircraft are carrying out military tasks in the skies above Syria, any flying objects, including international coalition aircraft and drones found operating west of the River Euphrates, will be tracked by Russian land and air-based anti-aircraft ground systems as targets
we'll see if they are just talk...regardless, this is the 1st rather unambiguous warning.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-usa-russia-defen-idUSKBN19A1FJ?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Reuters%2FworldNews+%28Reuters+World+News%29

Putin has shown a great amount of patience and restraint here. Hats off to him for not retaliating the way Trump or Obama/Bush before him probably would have. It's obvious that there is one side that clearly knows what it wants to do in Syria, while the other side has no freaking clue. Or else they do have a clue and simply want Assad out of there and want someone else in power, no matter what ISIS does.
Could a coalition of Iran, Russia, Syria and US make quick work of ISIS? Yes, of course..Could three of the 4 then end the Syrian civil war and install an interim government w/o Assad? Sure..Will this happen? Nope.
Assad is the legitimate leader of that country. Nobody but the Syrian people should decide who will lead their country and who shouldn't. Least of all the US government.
This is lost on Americans and American diplomacy. We bet on lots of the wrong horses during the Arab Spring and we need to deal with it.
Putin's plan, however misunderstood or misguided is to support the...elected government. The love triangle that everyone finds themselves in is ugly.. everyone claiming to be against terrorism but who terrorists are and where they reside is paramount. The US needs semi permission to cross borders and right now Trump's plan is to do what he wants and apologize for nothing.. when Assassin bombs or gases he goes Texas style.. bigger is better.. collateral damage is part of defense..we as Americans may disagree but Obama's choice not to get involved in a third war in the middle East saw little dissenting opinion..hell let take on Syria and N.Korea..China and Russia are watching close and probably watching Man In The High Castle
 
Dec 7, 2010
8,307
1
0
Re: Re:

This is lost on Americans and American diplomacy. We bet on lots of the wrong horses during the Arab Spring and we need to deal with it.
Putin's plan, however misunderstood or misguided is to support the...elected government. The love triangle that everyone finds themselves in is ugly.. everyone claiming to be against terrorism but who terrorists are and where they reside is paramount. The US needs semi permission to cross borders and right now Trump's plan is to do what he wants and apologize for nothing.. when Assassin bombs or gases he goes Texas style.. bigger is better.. collateral damage is part of defense..we as Americans may disagree but Obama's choice not to get involved in a third war in the middle East saw little dissenting opinion..hell let take on Syria and N.Korea..China and Russia are watching close and probably watching Man In The High Castle
Not sure if you realize that the only reason we had a "coalition no fly zone" was because of who? Who interfered there to begin with? USA correct? Copperhead had nothing to do with that when it started.

You don't make much sense with what you posted above.

I guess President "keep it Kool" never used drone's now either?
 
Re: Re:

BullsFan22 said:
Bustedknuckle said:
BullsFan22 said:
python said:
this could be the1st real sign of big crapper to just about hit the fan....

in response to us downing the syrian fighter, russia is suspending the de-confliction agreement and UNILATERALLY establishing a no-fly zone for american and coalition flights
In areas where Russian aircraft are carrying out military tasks in the skies above Syria, any flying objects, including international coalition aircraft and drones found operating west of the River Euphrates, will be tracked by Russian land and air-based anti-aircraft ground systems as targets
we'll see if they are just talk...regardless, this is the 1st rather unambiguous warning.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-usa-russia-defen-idUSKBN19A1FJ?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Reuters%2FworldNews+%28Reuters+World+News%29

Putin has shown a great amount of patience and restraint here. Hats off to him for not retaliating the way Trump or Obama/Bush before him probably would have. It's obvious that there is one side that clearly knows what it wants to do in Syria, while the other side has no freaking clue. Or else they do have a clue and simply want Assad out of there and want someone else in power, no matter what ISIS does.
Could a coalition of Iran, Russia, Syria and US make quick work of ISIS? Yes, of course..Could three of the 4 then end the Syrian civil war and install an interim government w/o Assad? Sure..Will this happen? Nope.
Assad is the legitimate leader of that country. Nobody but the Syrian people should decide who will lead their country and who shouldn't. Least of all the US government.
How about rereading my post. OK, use IRAN, RUSSIA to monitor a genuine election in Syria..after stopping the civil war..

Legitimate leader?

Within a month of his passing, Bashar Assad ran unopposed and was elected president.
Cuz anybody running against him would have slept with the fishes..
 
Jul 4, 2009
9,573
0
0
Re:

movingtarget said:
...what the NYT should have also included in the story is that after WW2 Merika opened its arms to a number of these Nazi sympathizers ( in a Project Paperclip kinda way )....and they and their ideological descendants were part of the strategy that culminated in the coup in The Ukraine that we here know as the glorious revolution....

Cheers
 
Semper, Obama's lack of courage and principal were displayed in Syria.
US political pvssies, have us in war without admission for popularity purposes instead of fighting and arguably winning the engagement.
Obama's support of protesters instead of elected government was a disaster everywhere.
Trump is a chump but..the original decisions that changed American Christian Judeo life was made by Bush and mottled further by Barrack.a no fly zone is a joke.. then and now.
If Trump sits silent as Putin public threats against our troops and allies go without answer... right out of Obama's do nothing playbook
 
Sep 25, 2009
6,983
0
0
...some world news of the last few days that deem important yet went under the western radars:

-- germany WILL after all withdraw from the turkish airbase. it is a serious setback for nato. based on most commentators both sides were just posturing following the tukish ban for german mps at the base. they weren't !

--russia cancelled its official meeting with the us diplomat after the new set of sanctions. it was a low level meet on improving ties. Still, based on the informed comments i read, this deemed significant in a way that it was the 1st eff u in many years coming from the russkie side. needless to remind, it was thems the ivans who cancelled the syria deconfliction. while mc lame may be wetting himself, it is a further sign that vlad wont budge to intimidation.

--the qatari crisis is not showing any signs of abating. there was a flurry of mediators (from kuwaitis to erdogans) all to no avail. not even a small move forward...today there was a saudi/emirates list issued with a number of demands (13?).
what evaded almost ALL western MSM was that of all the permutations in the crisis ISRAEL is suggesting direct and open diplomatic relations with the house of saud :rolleyes: .. a couple in heavens ! the medieval white-clad sheikhs that still hang and cut body parts wedded to the only 'beacon of democracy in the middle east' .

--the pigface (the uki prez) just visited trump...unnoticed went - among the renewed russia rages was the pigface's official visit to america was DOWNGRADED from the state status to 'working' as the pigfac was flying to washington. of course, all pigs just swallow what ever they are fed but the insult was sure calculated to get the vlad attention...

the world is still a forking mess...
 
Re:

python said:
...some world news of the last few days that deem important yet went under the western radars:

-- germany WILL after all withdraw from the turkish airbase. it is a serious setback for nato. based on most commentators both sides were just posturing following the tukish ban for german mps at the base. they weren't !

--russia cancelled its official meeting with the us diplomat after the new set of sanctions. it was a low level meet on improving ties. Still, based on the informed comments i read, this deemed significant in a way that it was the 1st eff u in many years coming from the russkie side. needless to remind, it was thems the ivans who cancelled the syria deconfliction. while mc lame may be wetting himself, it is a further sign that vlad wont budge to intimidation.

--the qatari crisis is not showing any signs of abating. there was a flurry of mediators (from kuwaitis to erdogans) all to no avail. not even a small move forward...today there was a saudi/emirates list issued with a number of demands (13?).
what evaded almost ALL western MSM was that of all the permutations in the crisis ISRAEL is suggesting direct and open diplomatic relations with the house of saud :rolleyes: .. a couple in heavens ! the medieval white-clad sheikhs that still hang and cut body parts wedded to the only 'beacon of democracy in the middle east' .

--the pigface (the uki prez) just visited trump...unnoticed went - among the renewed russia rages was the pigface's official visit to america was DOWNGRADED from the state status to 'working' as the pigfac was flying to washington. of course, all pigs just swallow what ever they are fed but the insult was sure calculated to get the vlad attention...

the world is still a forking mess...
I saw a depressing news report last night from a hospital in Kuwait. People are dropping like flies especially children from starvation and malnutrition and just as bad is what is happening with refugees in camps in Libya. Some of the footage was incredibly difficult to watch. Libya and Kuwait are in a complete mess.
 
Jul 4, 2009
9,573
0
0
....detailed article on how Merika armed their dear lung eating, head chopping, burning at the stake best buddies/soul mates in Syria....

The new alliance was carried over to Aleppo, where jihadist groups close to Nusra Front formed a new command called Fateh Halab (“Aleppo Conquest”) with nine armed groups in Aleppo province which were getting CIA assistance. The CIA-supported groups could claim that they weren’t cooperating with al Nusra Front because the al Qaeda franchise was not officially on the list of participants in the command. But as the report on the new command clearly implied, this was merely a way of allowing the CIA to continue providing weapons to its clients, despite their de facto alliance with al Qaeda.

The significance of all this is clear: by helping its Sunni allies provide weapons to al Nusra Front and its allies and by funneling into the war zone sophisticated weapons that were bound to fall into al Nusra hands or strengthen their overall military position, U.S. policy has been largely responsible for having extended al Qaeda’s power across a significant part of Syrian territory. The CIA and the Pentagon appear to be ready to tolerate such a betrayal of America’s stated counter-terrorism mission. Unless either Congress or the White House confronts that betrayal explicitly, as Tulsi Gabbard’s legislation would force them to do, U.S. policy will continue to be complicit in the consolidation of power by al Qaeda in Syria, even if the Islamic State is defeated there.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/how-america-armed-terrorists-in-syria/

Cheers
 
Dec 7, 2010
8,307
1
0
blutto said:
....detailed article on how Merika armed their dear lung eating, head chopping, burning at the stake best buddies/soul mates in Syria....

The new alliance was carried over to Aleppo, where jihadist groups close to Nusra Front formed a new command called Fateh Halab (“Aleppo Conquest”) with nine armed groups in Aleppo province which were getting CIA assistance. The CIA-supported groups could claim that they weren’t cooperating with al Nusra Front because the al Qaeda franchise was not officially on the list of participants in the command. But as the report on the new command clearly implied, this was merely a way of allowing the CIA to continue providing weapons to its clients, despite their de facto alliance with al Qaeda.

The significance of all this is clear: by helping its Sunni allies provide weapons to al Nusra Front and its allies and by funneling into the war zone sophisticated weapons that were bound to fall into al Nusra hands or strengthen their overall military position, U.S. policy has been largely responsible for having extended al Qaeda’s power across a significant part of Syrian territory. The CIA and the Pentagon appear to be ready to tolerate such a betrayal of America’s stated counter-terrorism mission. Unless either Congress or the White House confronts that betrayal explicitly, as Tulsi Gabbard’s legislation would force them to do, U.S. policy will continue to be complicit in the consolidation of power by al Qaeda in Syria, even if the Islamic State is defeated there.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/how-america-armed-terrorists-in-syria/

Cheers
"counter-terrorism mission" :rolleyes:
More like fund the terrorist to try and change the leadership of a country.

Question does that fall into the meddling / interference in another countries leadership / collusion with terrorist? One would think the US congress would have a investigation into the CIA and Keep it Kool's administration with respect to this. :rolleyes:
 
Busted, I don't know if you already forgot or simply are oblivious. Saddam was taken out. Look at where Iraq is now. Gaddafi was taken out. Look at where Libya is now. If Assad is taken out, where will Syria be in one, two, ten years time? You see where this is going?

You want to replace Assad? Fine. Who do you think will be there to replace him? ISIS?
 
Jul 4, 2009
9,573
0
0
....btw the connection btwn the Nudland "inspired" glorious revolution in The Ukraine and neo-Nazis groups was no happy accident but part of a very long standing connection btwn various Merikan government bodies and Nazi related groups operating within The Ukraine.....

CIA: Undermining and Nazifying Ukraine Since 1953

The recent declassification of over 3800 documents by the Central Intelligence Agency provides detailed proof that since 1953 the CIA operated two major programs intent on not only destabilizing Ukraine but Nazifying it with followers of the World War II Ukrainian Nazi leader Stepan Bandera.

The CIA programs spanned some four decades. Starting as a paramilitary operation that provided funding and equipment for such anti-Soviet Ukrainian resistance groups as the Ukrainian Supreme Liberation Council (UHVR); its affiliates, the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) and Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA), all Nazi Banderists. The CIA also provided support to a relatively anti-Bandera faction of the UHVR, the ZP-UHVR, a foreign-based virtual branch of the CIA and British MI-6 intelligence services. The early CIA operation to destabilize Ukraine, using exile Ukrainian agents in the West who were infiltrated into Soviet Ukraine, was codenamed Project AERODYNAMIC.

A formerly TOP SECRET CIA document dated July 13, 1953, provides a description of AERODYNAMIC: «The purpose of Project AERODYNAMIC is to provide for the exploitation and expansion of the anti-Soviet Ukrainian resistance for cold war and hot war purposes. Such groups as the Ukrainian Supreme Council of Liberation (UHVR) and its Ukrainian Insurgent Army (OUN), the Foreign Representation of the Ukrainian Supreme Council of Liberation (ZPUHVR) in Western Europe and the United States, and other organizations such as the OUN/B will be utilized». The CIA admitted in a 1970 formerly SECRET document that it had been in contact with the ZPUHVR since 1950.

The OUN-B was the Bandera faction of the OUN and its neo-Nazi sympathizers are today found embedded in the Ukrainian national government in Kiev and in regional and municipal governments throughout the countr
.

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2016/01/08/cia-undermining-and-nazifying-ukraine-since-1953.html

Cheers
 
blutto said:
....btw the connection btwn the Nudland "inspired" glorious revolution in The Ukraine and neo-Nazis groups was no happy accident but part of a very long standing connection btwn various Merikan government bodies and Nazi related groups operating within The Ukraine.....

CIA: Undermining and Nazifying Ukraine Since 1953

The recent declassification of over 3800 documents by the Central Intelligence Agency provides detailed proof that since 1953 the CIA operated two major programs intent on not only destabilizing Ukraine but Nazifying it with followers of the World War II Ukrainian Nazi leader Stepan Bandera.

The CIA programs spanned some four decades. Starting as a paramilitary operation that provided funding and equipment for such anti-Soviet Ukrainian resistance groups as the Ukrainian Supreme Liberation Council (UHVR); its affiliates, the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) and Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA), all Nazi Banderists. The CIA also provided support to a relatively anti-Bandera faction of the UHVR, the ZP-UHVR, a foreign-based virtual branch of the CIA and British MI-6 intelligence services. The early CIA operation to destabilize Ukraine, using exile Ukrainian agents in the West who were infiltrated into Soviet Ukraine, was codenamed Project AERODYNAMIC.

A formerly TOP SECRET CIA document dated July 13, 1953, provides a description of AERODYNAMIC: «The purpose of Project AERODYNAMIC is to provide for the exploitation and expansion of the anti-Soviet Ukrainian resistance for cold war and hot war purposes. Such groups as the Ukrainian Supreme Council of Liberation (UHVR) and its Ukrainian Insurgent Army (OUN), the Foreign Representation of the Ukrainian Supreme Council of Liberation (ZPUHVR) in Western Europe and the United States, and other organizations such as the OUN/B will be utilized». The CIA admitted in a 1970 formerly SECRET document that it had been in contact with the ZPUHVR since 1950.

The OUN-B was the Bandera faction of the OUN and its neo-Nazi sympathizers are today found embedded in the Ukrainian national government in Kiev and in regional and municipal governments throughout the countr
.

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2016/01/08/cia-undermining-and-nazifying-ukraine-since-1953.html

Cheers
Actually the most interesting parts of the Putin interviews with Oliver Stone revolved around Ukraine and the fall of the USSR.
 
I guess 1953 tactics could repeat but I have doubts.
I watched the first two segments of Stone-Putin. Both guys hyper sensitive to a point. Stone taking a head of states time to ask why he (Stone) was kept waiting hours while Putin runs a country. Putin's micro corrections of things he sees as inaccurate, Putin's mother and father's employment, education, lifestyle,ect..he wants his story told a bit more accurately and Stone's quirky production notes..on a handwritten notebook sheet..just a little campy.
Putin's reaction to Muslim separatists is one Trump admires but if it works remains to be seen.
There is a third option for Putin's prying eyes into our elections.. curiosity and wanting as much forewarning as possible..and just for the fvck of it..to show he can
 
Jul 4, 2009
9,573
0
0
....the Qatar thingee is causing a shakeup....here are a few things to consider...

In the long term, the escalation puts an end to the coalition of states that have supported Sunni Arab rebels in Syria. It happens at a moment they badly need assistance to repel the upcoming offensives to squeeze them out from the Syrian province of Idlib. The Turkey-Saudi partnership was viewed as essential to curb Iranian influence in Iraq. Now, Iran will gain.

It has been reported recently that Saudi Arabia plans to support Kurdish groups in Syria against Turkey. According to reports, it does not boil down to Syria only. The Kingdom makes overtures to the Kurds in Iran, Iraq and Turkey itself. If the overtures turn into real aid, this will signify a game-changing development to reshape the Middle East political map
.

....so Clown Prince Salman may be putting a gun to Erdogan's head with this Kurd gambit....Turkey has a base in Qatar....the Saudis have lots of shiny military baubles they don't have a clue how to use and Turkey has an army that in a straight up war would reduce the House of Saud to a smouldering ember in about two weeks...read Salman is an idiot and if he continues on his current course this is going to be one huge mess ( and frankly it doesn't how much money and influence the Saudi's presently have....and they have plenty as they are basically the backstop to the US dollar...there is going to be point where maybe the House of Saud will become more trouble than they are worth....read, governments can be quite easily replaced....)

The US has great interest in military assets on Turkish soil, like Incirlik airbase, for instance. Turkey and the Persian Gulf monarchies have been considered to be close America’s allies for dozens of years. Now, Washington is at a crossroads. The United States has failed to keep its allies together in a demonstration of its diminished influence in the Middle East.

Qatar has refused to succumb to the pressure. As a result, it will have to accept the Iranian offer to make available two of its ports and use Qatar Airways cargo planes to bypass the embargo. It will boost its military ties with Turkey and, probably, offer the US more guarantees on the Syrian civil war. Qatar will do its best to avoid direct confrontation while moving to new international partners.

With sanctions slapped against Qatar and Turley, the two countries will become natural allies. A new bloc will emerge in the region. The emerging security will alliance Turkey is combining Turkey’s military and economic potential of the regional power and the Qatar’s financial power. Other countries will join one or another side. The recent developments testify to the fact that the Sunni Muslim world is going through the period of deep divisions. With Iran in the same camp as Qatar and Turkey, it’s not Sunni Muslims against Shia Muslims anymore.
....and look where Russia could well end up sitting....

The support for Arab Sunni rebels in Syria will probably dwindle as pro-Turkey and pro-Saudi forces will have to choose sides. The US will face a very serious problem if Kurds in Syria and Turley are supported by the Saudi-led bloc. With no unified Saudi-led Sunni Arab bloc behind it, Washington will have less wiggle room during the talks on delineating de-escalation zones. The influence of the Russia-Turkey-Iran coalition in Syria will grow. All major actors involved in the ongoing conflict have taken sides, except Russia. It makes Moscow best suited for heading the mediation efforts to prevent the worst form happening
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/06/25/crises-over-qatar-reaches-new-levels-assessing-implications.html

....and there is one more thing to consider....there have been indications that the US is getting quite fed up with the House of Saud and one way of dealing with them cleanly is to just keep giving them more rope...

...the other thing to note is that Pakistan has made a point to stay neutral ( and this is potentially important because the last time there was a need for a military response in the sandy kingdoms it was provided by Pakistani "mercenaries" in Bahrain ...read the Saudis didn't have the ability to help put down a civilian revolt which is basically a police action...)

...and further reading here....

http://www.unz.com/emargolis/tensions-mount-as-the-new-saudi-prince-takes-charge/

Cheers
 
Re:

Unchained said:
I guess 1953 tactics could repeat but I have doubts.
I watched the first two segments of Stone-Putin. Both guys hyper sensitive to a point. Stone taking a head of states time to ask why he (Stone) was kept waiting hours while Putin runs a country. Putin's micro corrections of things he sees as inaccurate, Putin's mother and father's employment, education, lifestyle,ect..he wants his story told a bit more accurately and Stone's quirky production notes..on a handwritten notebook sheet..just a little campy.
Putin's reaction to Muslim separatists is one Trump admires but if it works remains to be seen.
There is a third option for Putin's prying eyes into our elections.. curiosity and wanting as much forewarning as possible..and just for the fvck of it..to show he can
i thought parts three and four were the best. Stone's questions were more probing, not that he received the answers he wanted !
 
Sep 25, 2009
6,983
0
0
blutto said:
....the Qatar thingee is causing a shakeup....here are a few things to consider...

In the long term, the escalation puts an end to the coalition of states that have supported Sunni Arab rebels in Syria. It happens at a moment they badly need assistance to repel the upcoming offensives to squeeze them out from the Syrian province of Idlib. The Turkey-Saudi partnership was viewed as essential to curb Iranian influence in Iraq. Now, Iran will gain.

It has been reported recently that Saudi Arabia plans to support Kurdish groups in Syria against Turkey. According to reports, it does not boil down to Syria only. The Kingdom makes overtures to the Kurds in Iran, Iraq and Turkey itself. If the overtures turn into real aid, this will signify a game-changing development to reshape the Middle East political map
.

....so Clown Prince Salman may be putting a gun to Erdogan's head with this Kurd gambit....Turkey has a base in Qatar....the Saudis have lots of shiny military baubles they don't have a clue how to use and Turkey has an army that in a straight up war would reduce the House of Saud to a smouldering ember in about two weeks...read Salman is an idiot and if he continues on his current course this is going to be one huge mess ( and frankly it doesn't how much money and influence the Saudi's presently have....and they have plenty as they are basically the backstop to the US dollar...there is going to be point where maybe the House of Saud will become more trouble than they are worth....read, governments can be quite easily replaced....)

The US has great interest in military assets on Turkish soil, like Incirlik airbase, for instance. Turkey and the Persian Gulf monarchies have been considered to be close America’s allies for dozens of years. Now, Washington is at a crossroads. The United States has failed to keep its allies together in a demonstration of its diminished influence in the Middle East.

Qatar has refused to succumb to the pressure. As a result, it will have to accept the Iranian offer to make available two of its ports and use Qatar Airways cargo planes to bypass the embargo. It will boost its military ties with Turkey and, probably, offer the US more guarantees on the Syrian civil war. Qatar will do its best to avoid direct confrontation while moving to new international partners.

With sanctions slapped against Qatar and Turley, the two countries will become natural allies. A new bloc will emerge in the region. The emerging security will alliance Turkey is combining Turkey’s military and economic potential of the regional power and the Qatar’s financial power. Other countries will join one or another side. The recent developments testify to the fact that the Sunni Muslim world is going through the period of deep divisions. With Iran in the same camp as Qatar and Turkey, it’s not Sunni Muslims against Shia Muslims anymore.
....and look where Russia could well end up sitting....

The support for Arab Sunni rebels in Syria will probably dwindle as pro-Turkey and pro-Saudi forces will have to choose sides. The US will face a very serious problem if Kurds in Syria and Turley are supported by the Saudi-led bloc. With no unified Saudi-led Sunni Arab bloc behind it, Washington will have less wiggle room during the talks on delineating de-escalation zones. The influence of the Russia-Turkey-Iran coalition in Syria will grow. All major actors involved in the ongoing conflict have taken sides, except Russia. It makes Moscow best suited for heading the mediation efforts to prevent the worst form happening
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/06/25/crises-over-qatar-reaches-new-levels-assessing-implications.html

....and there is one more thing to consider....there have been indications that the US is getting quite fed up with the House of Saud and one way of dealing with them cleanly is to just keep giving them more rope...

...the other thing to note is that Pakistan has made a point to stay neutral ( and this is potentially important because the last time there was a need for a military response in the sandy kingdoms it was provided by Pakistani "mercenaries" in Bahrain ...read the Saudis didn't have the ability to help put down a civilian revolt which is basically a police action...)

...and further reading here....

http://www.unz.com/emargolis/tensions-mount-as-the-new-saudi-prince-takes-charge/

Cheers
all very astute analysis and observation ! thanx.

i'd still be careful to over interpret the erdogan influence. not b/c you and the author missed anything, but b/c his constant turnabouts are too finicky to consider a decisive input into anything long term. besides, after the last year coup and the plethora of challenges and enemies (both domestically and externally) that erdogan has to deal with, i honestly dont know who may bite the dust faster - the erdo-gone or the soud.

short term, i agree 100% the iran-turkey-russia axis in syria gets a boost and all the sunni cutthroats look the losers... if the us stopped its confusing games in the south syria, we would already see a real prospect for peaceful resolution is syria...doubt that's what america has in mind. keeping the syrian fire smoldering as long as possible is a page out of the classic machiavellian book - 'let em kill each other as long as possible'... the syrian kurds, like the taleban before them,, will be thrown under a bus the moment their short-term usefulness expires.

frankly, i'd love to see the qatar crisis to result in in the shake up of both turkey and the saudis.

egypt has many keys and i dont think that sisi-salman connection is as strong as it seems.
 
Jul 4, 2009
9,573
0
0
python said:
blutto said:
....the Qatar thingee is causing a shakeup....here are a few things to consider...

In the long term, the escalation puts an end to the coalition of states that have supported Sunni Arab rebels in Syria. It happens at a moment they badly need assistance to repel the upcoming offensives to squeeze them out from the Syrian province of Idlib. The Turkey-Saudi partnership was viewed as essential to curb Iranian influence in Iraq. Now, Iran will gain.

It has been reported recently that Saudi Arabia plans to support Kurdish groups in Syria against Turkey. According to reports, it does not boil down to Syria only. The Kingdom makes overtures to the Kurds in Iran, Iraq and Turkey itself. If the overtures turn into real aid, this will signify a game-changing development to reshape the Middle East political map
.

....so Clown Prince Salman may be putting a gun to Erdogan's head with this Kurd gambit....Turkey has a base in Qatar....the Saudis have lots of shiny military baubles they don't have a clue how to use and Turkey has an army that in a straight up war would reduce the House of Saud to a smouldering ember in about two weeks...read Salman is an idiot and if he continues on his current course this is going to be one huge mess ( and frankly it doesn't how much money and influence the Saudi's presently have....and they have plenty as they are basically the backstop to the US dollar...there is going to be point where maybe the House of Saud will become more trouble than they are worth....read, governments can be quite easily replaced....)

The US has great interest in military assets on Turkish soil, like Incirlik airbase, for instance. Turkey and the Persian Gulf monarchies have been considered to be close America’s allies for dozens of years. Now, Washington is at a crossroads. The United States has failed to keep its allies together in a demonstration of its diminished influence in the Middle East.

Qatar has refused to succumb to the pressure. As a result, it will have to accept the Iranian offer to make available two of its ports and use Qatar Airways cargo planes to bypass the embargo. It will boost its military ties with Turkey and, probably, offer the US more guarantees on the Syrian civil war. Qatar will do its best to avoid direct confrontation while moving to new international partners.

With sanctions slapped against Qatar and Turley, the two countries will become natural allies. A new bloc will emerge in the region. The emerging security will alliance Turkey is combining Turkey’s military and economic potential of the regional power and the Qatar’s financial power. Other countries will join one or another side. The recent developments testify to the fact that the Sunni Muslim world is going through the period of deep divisions. With Iran in the same camp as Qatar and Turkey, it’s not Sunni Muslims against Shia Muslims anymore.
....and look where Russia could well end up sitting....

The support for Arab Sunni rebels in Syria will probably dwindle as pro-Turkey and pro-Saudi forces will have to choose sides. The US will face a very serious problem if Kurds in Syria and Turley are supported by the Saudi-led bloc. With no unified Saudi-led Sunni Arab bloc behind it, Washington will have less wiggle room during the talks on delineating de-escalation zones. The influence of the Russia-Turkey-Iran coalition in Syria will grow. All major actors involved in the ongoing conflict have taken sides, except Russia. It makes Moscow best suited for heading the mediation efforts to prevent the worst form happening
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/06/25/crises-over-qatar-reaches-new-levels-assessing-implications.html

....and there is one more thing to consider....there have been indications that the US is getting quite fed up with the House of Saud and one way of dealing with them cleanly is to just keep giving them more rope...

...the other thing to note is that Pakistan has made a point to stay neutral ( and this is potentially important because the last time there was a need for a military response in the sandy kingdoms it was provided by Pakistani "mercenaries" in Bahrain ...read the Saudis didn't have the ability to help put down a civilian revolt which is basically a police action...)

...and further reading here....

http://www.unz.com/emargolis/tensions-mount-as-the-new-saudi-prince-takes-charge/

Cheers
all very astute analysis and observation ! thanx.

i'd still be careful to over interpret the erdogan influence. not b/c you and the author missed anything, but b/c his constant turnabouts are too finicky to consider a decisive input into anything long term. besides, after the last year coup and the plethora of challenges and enemies (both domestically and externally) that erdogan has to deal with, i honestly dont know who may bite the dust faster - the erdo-gone or the soud.

short term, i agree 100% the iran-turkey-russia axis in syria gets a boost and all the sunni cutthroats look the losers... if the us stopped its confusing games in the south syria, we would already see a real prospect for peaceful resolution is syria...doubt that's what america has in mind. keeping the syrian fire smoldering as long as possible is a page out of the classic machiavellian book - 'let em kill each other as long as possible'... the syrian kurds, like the taleban before them,, will be thrown under a bus the moment their short-term usefulness expires.

frankly, i'd love to see the qatar crisis to result in in the shake up of both turkey and the saudis.

egypt has many keys and i dont think that sisi-salman connection is as strong as it seems.
....hmmm.... not sure about that one either but without the Saudi support Sisi would be, at the very least, in a pile of trouble , or at worst put up against a wall and shot...do remember he rose to power against a background of huge demonstrations that very much supported the government he usurped....read he has little or no broad support and another Mubarak moment could just be around the corner....

....that being the US also supported the Sisi coup so they definitely have a dog in this fight so they will do what they can to maintain the status quo....

....is Egypt a key piece here ?....well, with Sisi in power it diminishes Erdogan's influence and makes the Saudi reach loom larger....if Egypt goes back to the Muslim Brotherhood the Turkish presence in Qatar becomes a much bigger problem for the Clown Prince....

Cheers
 
Sep 25, 2009
6,983
0
0
blutto said:
....hmmm.... not sure about that one either but without the Saudi support Sisi would be, at the very least, in a pile of trouble , or at worst put up against a wall and shot...do remember he rose to power against a background of huge demonstrations that very much supported the government he usurped....read he has little or no broad support and another Mubarak moment could just be around the corner....

....that being the US also supported the Sisi coup so they definitely have a dog in this fight so they will do what they can to maintain the status quo....

....is Egypt a key piece here ?....well, with Sisi in power it diminishes Erdogan's influence and makes the Saudi reach loom larger....if Egypt goes back to the Muslim Brotherhood the Turkish presence in Qatar becomes a much bigger problem for the Clown Prince....

Cheers
at the moment - actually throughout its recent history - the real power brokers/holder in egypt is/was the military...from nasser to sadat to mubarak and partucularly now with the sisi dude...he snatched the power no doubt with the huge support from the saudis. but also, if not more so from israel, the us (despite the disingenuous pangs of obama at the time) and to a lesser degree...from russia. it is NOT well known that vlad feared and loathed the muslim brotherhood and in fact made it illegal as a political-religious cult, very much the same as isis and al qaeda.

is egypt THE key peice ? No. that's why i mentioned it holds SOME keys. what i meant mainly were 2 things.

the sisi anti-iran position is far less categorical than the saudis would like it to be. in fact, when the saudis threatened and actually cut for a while the oil supplies to egypt (over a dispute about the 2 islands in the red sea) , the iranian substitute was instantly available and entertained...another substantial difference between the salman and sisi is in syria with the egyptian position much closer to the russian. that is, the assad future is not necessarily
a categorical saudi 'must go'. i would even dare to say that sisi is leaning to the vlad wider view of the middle east. what's at play here is the competition btwn the 2 for the leadership in the arab world. the former indisputable leader (egypt) is jealous and suspicious of the current and rising power, the saud.

and there are some differences about how they treat the hamas vs the palestinian authority competition, though both officially disregard hamas...

that's what i mainly had in mind about the egypt role...
 
Jul 4, 2009
9,573
0
0
python said:
blutto said:
....hmmm.... not sure about that one either but without the Saudi support Sisi would be, at the very least, in a pile of trouble , or at worst put up against a wall and shot...do remember he rose to power against a background of huge demonstrations that very much supported the government he usurped....read he has little or no broad support and another Mubarak moment could just be around the corner....

....that being the US also supported the Sisi coup so they definitely have a dog in this fight so they will do what they can to maintain the status quo....

....is Egypt a key piece here ?....well, with Sisi in power it diminishes Erdogan's influence and makes the Saudi reach loom larger....if Egypt goes back to the Muslim Brotherhood the Turkish presence in Qatar becomes a much bigger problem for the Clown Prince....

Cheers
at the moment - actually throughout its recent history - the real power brokers/holder in egypt is/was the military...from nasser to sadat to mubarak and partucularly now with the sisi dude...he snatched the power no doubt with the huge support from the saudis. but also, if not more so from israel, the us (despite the disingenuous pangs of obama at the time) and to a lesser degree...from russia. it is NOT well known that vlad feared and loathed the muslim brotherhood and in fact made it illegal as a political-religious cult, very much the same as isis and al qaeda.

is egypt THE key peice ? No. that's why i mentioned it holds SOME keys. what i meant mainly were 2 things.

the sisi anti-iran position is far less categorical than the saudis would like it to be. in fact, when the saudis threatened and actually cut for a while the oil supplies to egypt (over a dispute about the 2 islands in the red sea) , the iranian substitute was instantly available and entertained...another substantial difference between the salman and sisi is in syria with the egyptian position much closer to the russian. that is, the assad future is not necessarily
a categorical saudi 'must go'. i would even dare to say that sisi is leaning to the vlad wider view of the middle east. what's at play here is the competition btwn the 2 for the leadership in the arab world. the former indisputable leader (egypt) is jealous and suspicious of the current and rising power, the saud.

and there are some differences about how they treat the hamas vs the palestinian authority competition, though both officially disregard hamas...

that's what i mainly had in mind about the egypt role...
...thanks for expanding my understanding....

Cheers
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
S Off Topic DIscussions 12
Similar threads
2019 Rugby World Cup

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS