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Sep 25, 2009
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...7 days left till the saudi ultimatum to qatar expires. so far, not one peep of acquiescence. quite to he contrary, though without much indignant noise, everything i read (particularly on al jazeera) amounts to flat rejection...

moreover, some official voices wafting in the west should be deeply irritating to the saud. yestrday, the german fm (in yet another sign of the waning german timidity) called the saudi demands provocative. also yesterday, turkey responding to the demand to remove its base, essentially said 'make me do so '...even some classic hawks in washington seem to realize that the saudis went too far. they threaten to block the weapons approval if the sides dont sit down for a serious talk.

so what now ? what will the saudis do in 7 days as it is abundantly clear their demands were dead on arrival ?

some say nothing will happen. some - a new military conflict is brewing. i cant see an immidiate military attack on qatar b/c of the us and turkish bases. but would not exclude it in the new future....

borrowed from the global research article:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-saudi-qatar-spat-an-offer-to-be-refused/5596088
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Sep 25, 2009
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my guess is that the new warning to syria from the us is no more than upping the brinkmanship in advance of the trump-putin meeting at the g20 in germany.

in case it is something more ominous, my hunch is that THIS TIME, there will be a military response. from either russia or iran or both. what exactly they may do will depend on what the pentagon attack will consist of.

those iranian missile attacks officially termed 'the strikes on isis' last week were certainly not meant for isis...

the series of american attacks in syria without as much as receiving a single bullet back must be gnawing on the other side's generals.

we will see...
 
Jul 4, 2009
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....and more from the Saudi file....this from the chapter on a potential upcoming civil war....ok, you who in the back of the room is whispering about the petro-dollar, like shut up eh, like you don't want to be sowing panic in the all-powerful financial markets ( though it is going to be interesting to see just how all-powerful those markets are if the Saudi backing of the petro-dollar kinda proves as solid as a gust of desert wind...)...

The deposed crown prince of Saudi Arabia, Mohammed bin Nayef, has reportedly been put under house arrest after the recent reshuffling in the country’s royal succession.

On Wednesday, the New York Times cited four current and former American officials and Saudis close to the royal family as saying on condition of anonymity that Mohammed bin Nayef has been barred from leaving the country and confined to his palace in the coastal city of Jeddah.

The guards at Mohammed bin Nayef’s palace in Jidda have reportedly been replaced by guards loyal to Mohammed bin Salman and Nayef has not been allowed to leave his palace since then, the report said.

On June 21, Saudi King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud issued a royal decree to replace Crown Prince Mohammed bin Nayef bin Abdulaziz Al Saud with his own son. According to the decree, the 31-year-old crown prince is also named deputy prime minister and shall maintain his post as defense minister.

The Saudi internal security services have apparently taken the measure in an attempt to limit any potential opposition for the new crown prince Mohammed bin Salman, the NY report said.

http://217.218.67.231/Detail/2017/06/29/526860/Saudi-Arabia-house-arrest

....and....

Citigroup has estimated that the Kingdom may run out of oil to export entirely by 2030. The end of the Kingdom's cash cow is likely to cause problems in a nation that The Atlantic has accused of running itself like a "sophisticated criminal enterprise."

II. Increasing Signs Of Internal Conflict In Saudi Arabia

There are a number of indications that Saudi Arabia's royal family is also experiencing a significant amount of internal strife. King Salman has caused significant upheaval in the kingdom by taking the controversial step of totally overhauling Saudi Arabia's line of succession and appointing his son, Mohammed bin Salman, as crown prince. The move is a dangerous one given that it has caused division in the royal family. Foreign Policy has noted that Saudi Arabia's security forces are not under a single command authority, meaning that the military runs the risk of becoming fractured in the event of an internal conflict.

In 2015, The Independent spoke with a Saudi prince who revealed that eight of Salman's 11 brothers were dissatisfied with his leadership and were contemplating removing him from office, replacing him with former Interior Minister Prince Ahmed bin Abdulaziz. NBC News revealed that the promotion of Salman's son to the position of crown prince has also angered Prince Muhammad bin Nayef, who was previously in line for the throne and is known for his hardline stance towards Iran. On June 28th, 2017, the New York Times reported that Nayef had been barred from leaving Saudi Arabia and was confined to his palace in Jidda with his guards replaced by others loyal to Mohammed bin Salman.

Nayef rules over Saudi Arabia's Eastern Region, which is described as one of the provinces most likely to rebel in the event of civil conflict due to the region's large population of Shi'a Muslims. He is generally believed to be one of the leading advocates for the 2016 execution of Shi'a cleric Nimr al-Nimr, a move which caused serious anger amongst Iranians. Nayef's family also has historic ties to insurgent groups used by Saudi Arabia as a foreign policy tool. His father, Nayef bin Abdulaziz Al Saud, served as Interior Minister and controlled Saudi Arabia's internal intelligence services, police, special forces, drug enforcement agency and mujahideen forces.

....and whoops, this terror may thingee may have gone a wee bit too far....

Wikileaks releases of diplomatic cables from Saudi Arabia's Ministry of Foreign Affairs show that officials are committed to continuing to destroy the Syrian regime out of fear that Assad's government might engage in reprisals for the destructive civil war there. Saudi Arabia has helped fuel the war through their support of Islamic terror groups. State Department cables released by Wikileaks show that Saudi Arabia is considered to be the most significant funder of Sunni terror groups internationally. But like foreign intervention, terrorism as a foreign policy tool serves as a means of directing destructive energy at best.

There have long been fears that the method could grow out of hand and create problems for the benefactors of terror. Saudi security forces have routinely had issues with infiltration by terror groups
. In 2001, Stratfor noted the royal family's growing concern over the increase in terror sympathizers amongst the military due to fears that some of the insurgent groups were not friendly towards the kingdom. Terror groups such as ISIS have in the past several years engaged in a number of attacks against Saudi targets, including suicide attacks which targeted the holy Islamic city of Medina and the Grand Mosque in Mecca.

....and maybe this barrel of fun is even funnier than previously imagined....

The specter of nuclear proliferation in the Middle East also raises concerns that weapons could fall into the wrong hands or be used indiscriminately. Julian Assange has repeated 2010 claims from the head of Al-Jazeera that Qatar is in possession of a nuclear weapon. Saudi Arabia itself also is suspected of possessing nuclear arms. In 2013, BBC News reported that Saudi Arabia had nuclear weapons "on order" from Pakistan, whose nuclear program was bankrolled by the Saudis.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-29/saudi-arabia%E2%80%99s-march-towards-civil-war

Cheers
 
python said:
blutto said:
....hmmm.... not sure about that one either but without the Saudi support Sisi would be, at the very least, in a pile of trouble , or at worst put up against a wall and shot...do remember he rose to power against a background of huge demonstrations that very much supported the government he usurped....read he has little or no broad support and another Mubarak moment could just be around the corner....

....that being the US also supported the Sisi coup so they definitely have a dog in this fight so they will do what they can to maintain the status quo....

....is Egypt a key piece here ?....well, with Sisi in power it diminishes Erdogan's influence and makes the Saudi reach loom larger....if Egypt goes back to the Muslim Brotherhood the Turkish presence in Qatar becomes a much bigger problem for the Clown Prince....

Cheers
at the moment - actually throughout its recent history - the real power brokers/holder in egypt is/was the military...from nasser to sadat to mubarak and partucularly now with the sisi dude...he snatched the power no doubt with the huge support from the saudis. but also, if not more so from israel, the us (despite the disingenuous pangs of obama at the time) and to a lesser degree...from russia. it is NOT well known that vlad feared and loathed the muslim brotherhood and in fact made it illegal as a political-religious cult, very much the same as isis and al qaeda.

is egypt THE key peice ? No. that's why i mentioned it holds SOME keys. what i meant mainly were 2 things.

the sisi anti-iran position is far less categorical than the saudis would like it to be. in fact, when the saudis threatened and actually cut for a while the oil supplies to egypt (over a dispute about the 2 islands in the red sea) , the iranian substitute was instantly available and entertained...another substantial difference between the salman and sisi is in syria with the egyptian position much closer to the russian. that is, the assad future is not necessarily
a categorical saudi 'must go'. i would even dare to say that sisi is leaning to the vlad wider view of the middle east. what's at play here is the competition btwn the 2 for the leadership in the arab world. the former indisputable leader (egypt) is jealous and suspicious of the current and rising power, the saud.

and there are some differences about how they treat the hamas vs the palestinian authority competition, though both officially disregard hamas...

that's what i mainly had in mind about the egypt role...

yes
 
Jul 4, 2009
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....more petrodollar fun....btw the other big loser if the petrodollar tanks is none other than Saudi Arabia...

The United States’ ability to maintain its influence over the rest of the world has been slowly diminishing. Since the petrodollar was established in 1971, U.S. currency has monopolized international trade through oil deals with the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) and continuous military interventions. There is, however, growing opposition to the American standard, and it gained more support recently when several Gulf states suddenly blockaded Qatar, which they accused of funding terrorism.

Despite the mainstream narrative, there are several other reasons why Qatar is in the crosshairs. Over the past two years, it conducted over $86 billion worth of transactions in Chinese yuan and has signed other agreements with China that encourage further economic cooperation. Qatar also shares the world’s largest natural gas field with Iran, giving the two countries significant regional influence to expand their own trade deals.

Meanwhile, uncontrollable debt and political divisions in the United States are clear signs of vulnerability. The Chinese and Russians proactively set up alternative financial systems for countries looking to distance themselves from the Federal Reserve. After the IMF accepted the yuan into its basket of reserve currencies in October of last year, investors and economists finally started to pay attention. The economic power held by the Federal Reserve has been key in financing the American empire, but geopolitical changes are happening fast. The United States’ reputation has been tarnished by decades of undeclared wars, mass surveillance, and catastrophic foreign policy.

One of America’s best remaining assets is its military strength, but it’s useless without a strong economy to fund it. Rival coalitions like the BRICS nations aren’t challenging the established order head on and are instead opting to undermine its financial support. Qatar is just the latest country to take steps to bypass the U.S. dollar. Russia made headlines in 2016 when they started accepting payments in yuan and took over as China’s largest oil partner, stealing a huge market share from Saudi Arabia in the process. Iran also dropped the dollar earlier this year in response to President Trump’s travel ban. As the tide continues to turn against the petrodollar, eventually even our allies will start to question what best serves their own interests.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-27/end-petrodollar-what-fed-doesnt-want-you-know

Cheers
 
Jul 4, 2009
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....this one is for the scientists in the crowd ( officially anointed and self anointed both ) and adds to an earlier exchange about proof of the presence of sarin in an attack on a lung eater position in Syria earlier this year...

Having defined the creation of the object (the non-existent chemical weapon) and the means by which it was created (the flawed theatrics of the White Helmets), we move on to the third, or formal cause, which constitutes the expression of what the object is. In the case of Khan Sheikhun, this is best expressed by the results of forensic testing of samples allegedly taken from victims of the chemical attack, and from the scene of the attack itself. The organization responsible for overseeing this forensic testing was the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, or OPCW. Through its work, the OPCW has determined that the nerve agent Sarin, or a “Sarin-like substance,” was used at Khan Sheikhun, a result that would seemingly compensate for both the lack of a bomb and the amateurish theatrics of the rescuers.

The problem, however, is that the OPCW is in no position to make the claim it did. One of the essential aspects of the kind of forensic investigation carried out by organizations such as the OPCW—namely the application of scientific methods and techniques to the investigation of a crime—is the concept of “chain of custody” of any samples that are being evaluated. This requires a seamless transition from the collection of the samples in question, the process of which must be recorded and witnessed, the sealing of the samples, the documentation of the samples, the escorted transportation of the samples to the laboratory, the confirmation and breaking of the seals under supervision, and the subsequent processing of the samples, all under supervision of the OPCW. Anything less than this means the integrity of the sample has been compromised—in short, there is no sample.

The OPCW acknowledges that its personnel did not gain access to Khan Sheikhun at any time. However, the investigating team states that it used connections with “parties with knowledge of and connections to the area in question,” to gain access to samples that were collected by “non governmental organizations (NGOs)” which also provided representatives to be interviewed, and videos and images for the investigating team to review. The NGO used by the OPCW was none other than the White Helmets.

The process of taking samples from a contaminated area takes into consideration a number of factors designed to help create as broad and accurate a picture of the scene of the incident itself as well as protect the safety of the person taking the sample as well as the integrity of the crime scene itself (i.e., reduce contamination). There is no evidence that the White Helmets have received this kind of specialized training required for the taking of such samples. Moreover, the White Helmets are not an extension of the OPCW—under no circumstances could any samples taken by White Helmet personnel and subsequently turned over to the OPCW be considered viable in terms of chain of custody. This likewise holds true for any biomedical samples evaluated by the OPCW—all such samples were either taken from victims who had been transported to Turkish hospitals, or provided by non-OPCW personnel in violation of chain of custody
.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/ex-weapons-inspector-trumps-sarin-claims-built-on-lie/

Cheers
 
Jul 4, 2009
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....more on the Qatar file....this the background chapter....

One of the two conflating dynamics which might help us understand the enigma of Israeli satisfaction is this: a well-known Arab journalist wrote recently of a dinner held some months ago in the Gulf (with prominent Gulf guests), at which an unnamed former Arab Prime Minister was quizzed about MbS’ prospects of becoming king. What he said shocked the gathering. Some expressed their incredulity.

He said bluntly: if MbS wanted to come to the throne, he would need America’s blessings. He would need to offer them something that no one had offered before – that no one had dared to offer before. And what was that, the journalist asked the former PM that MbS must offer: “He must recognize Israel. If he does that, the U.S. will support him. They’ll even crown him themselves.”

In one of the Sherlock Holmes detective stories, Holmes’s solution to a particular mystery rested on “the dog did that did not bark in the night.” Holmes’s point was why had the dog not barked when its nature is to bark.

It is common knowledge that the U.S. has been firmly committed to Prince Nayef succeeding King Salman. The authoritative Saudi insider and blogger Muhtahidd has tweeted that the U.S. sent messages last year to MbS warning that he should not seek to supplant Nayef. In July 2016,

Mujtahidd tweeted that Secretary of State John Kerry had told MbS that Nayef continuing as Crown Prince was a “red line” for the U.S.
Why then did the U.S. “dog” not bark on the night that MbS seized the succession, just before dawn? We have heard not one tiny growl on Nayef’s behalf. In fact, a trawl through Mutahhid’s early tweets lays it all bare … if one bothers to connect the dots
.

The main actor in this drama is Mohammad bin Zayed (MbZ), the Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi, who according to Mutjtahidd recognized MbS’ ambition from early on, and saw in him an instrument by which MbZ could gain personal influence through becoming kingmaker in Saudi Arabia. From the outset MbZ apparently urged MbS to obtain America’s support for him becoming king – via the channel of Israeli full support.


In tweets from May 2, 2016, Mujtahhid describes MbZ’s advice to bin Salman: first, seize the succession to the throne before King Salman dies; second, gain U.S. favor by moving the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia away from religious values – away from values that reinforce an Islamic identity, and third, expand ties with Israel
.

https://consortiumnews.com/2017/07/01/how-israelisaudi-alliance-plays-trump/

....which begs the question....what exactly are the lung eaters really fighting for if their backers are now in bed with Israel....read, this could really blow up for Salman....

Cheers
 
Jul 4, 2009
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...more Qatar background....?....( from..."The Fars News Agency is a news agency in Iran. While it describes itself as "Iran's leading independent news agency",[1] it is widely described by news media to be a "semi-official" news agency of the Government of Iran." )

TEHRAN (FNA)- Chances are high that a coup is staged in Saudi Arabia to bring down the new crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, and send him to exile, a leading Arab daily said in an analysis written by an Israeli expert.


"The new crown prince has played an important role in distorting Saudi Arabia's stability since 2015," al-Rai al-Youm quoted Shaul Yanai as saying on Saturday.

Noting that the only power which can invalidate the Saudi king's order to replace the crown prince is the Royal Council, he said the Council can incapacitate the king under the pretext of his poor health conditions and inability to make wise decisions.

"In such conditions, bin Salman will also be dethroned and he might even be sent to exile for a long period of time," Yanai said


Late April, media source disclosed that Mohammad bin Salman has literally bribed the new US administration by paying $56m to Donald Trump.

According to reports, bin Salman is paying off the US to buy its support for finding a grip over the crown.

"Since Uncle Sam's satisfaction is the first step for the Saudi princes to get on the crown, paying off Washington seems to be a taken-for-granted fact," Rami Khalil, a reporter of Naba' news website affiliated to the Saudi dissidents wrote.

He added that since the Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act (JASTA) is like a sword over the head of the al-Saud, they have no way out but to bribe the US, noting that the Yemen quagmire is also another reason for Riyadh to seek Washington's support.

Also, a prominent Yemeni analyst said early June that the US has been paid several trillion dollars by Saudi Arabia to protect its crown, adding that Riyadh has recently bribed Washington's support for the Yemen war with $200bln.

"Washington has asked for more money to defend the Saudi regime and Riyadh has recently paid $200bln to the US for the costs of its support for the war in Yemen," Saleh al-Qarshi told FNA.

"This is apart from the huge amounts of money that Saudi Arabia pays to the US treasury for protecting its crown," he added.

According to al-Qarshi, former Saudi Intelligence Chief Turki al-Feisal revealed last year that his country has bought the low-profit US treasury bonds to help the US economy

http://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13960410001344

Cheers
 
Sep 25, 2009
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i have a cynical view of the cino-american 'dance' regarding the norkors behavior, though, to a substantial degree their interests and goals overlap. that is, both genuinely dont want another member in the nuclear club, but they see it differently...

china made a rather clear reference to a condition which, if respected, would stimulate it to really bring the norkor client state to their senses. it was actually 2 conditions: halt military maneuvers and exercises and remove the thaad missiles from the south that apparently were snuck in w/o the new president knowledge.

not only there was not a peep or a hint about respecting china's legitimate concerns so close to their borders, moreover, there was an intentional american warship sent into chinese waters causing china to sharply react both militarily and diplomatically.

to my cynical mind, american attitude is to have china do its bidding not only for NOTHING in return but using the long outdated and ineffective muscle flexing.

the very definition of the recurrent american arrogance that keeps failing with even much smaller a less potent players.

i expect that china will play the norkor nuclear card until some idiots in washington wakeup. where can it lead ?

i wish i knew :mad:
 
Sep 25, 2009
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not really surprised that a major international even like the top 20 nations meet in germany isn't getting the due attention on a 'little bike forum' :)

...just saw the clips of the anti-globalists clashing with the police. saw some blood, beatings, water guns...10s of thousands on both sides. looks very violent.

i get the anti global message as long as it is non violent.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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not really surprised that a major international even like the top 20 nations meet in germany isn't getting the due attention on a 'little bike forum' :)

...just saw the clips of the anti-globalists clashing with the police. saw some blood, beatings, water guns...10s of thousands on both sides. looks very violent.

i get the anti global message as long as it is non violent.
------
added: the trump rhetoric about a tough response to norkors and the threats to sanctions china and russia for trading with the norkors imo is a badly flawed stuff bound to bite the us in its own exceptional butt...i am sure.
 
Jul 4, 2009
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....hmmm....another *** in the dominance of the US petrodollar ?.....wonder wnen Canada will be declared a terrorist nation and invaded to, you know, preserve democracy and freedom, and oh yeah, the primacy of the US petrodollar .....

Canada’s Finance Minister and China’s ambassador to Canada will officially inaugurate the opening of a Canadian offshore trading hub for the Chinese currency Monday, a move that will make transactions cheaper for companies doing business with the East Asian giant and could boost trade between the two countries.

The inauguration, which will feature the signing of a memorandum of understanding at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre, follows a long period of negotiations between the two governments and central banks, as well as the officials from Ontario and British Columbia. It will be the first clearinghouse for the Chinese renminbi in North America.

The Canadian hub, which follows other foreign jurisdictions such as London, will allow direct conversions between Canadian and Chinese currencies, without first changing the money into U.S. dollars – a move that will save money for Canadian firms dealing with Chinese ones and will help Canada boost its presence in the world’s second largest economy.

Chinese firms sometimes offer discounts to foreign companies that are able to execute transactions in Chinese currency.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/international-business/canada-china-to-ink-deal-for-north-americas-first-yuan-hub/article23574282/

....and....

However, in recent years, despite Washington’s desire to use whatever means to sustain its position within the international arena, US policies are increasingly faced with opposition. As a result, a growing number of countries are trying to move from the US dollar along with its dependence on the United States, by pursuing a policy of de-dollarization. Three states that are particularly active in this domain are China, Russia and Iran. These countries are trying to achieve de-dollarization at a record pace, along with some European banks and energy companies that are operating within their borders

In recent months, China has also become an active member of this “anti-dollar” campaign, since it has signed agreements with Canada and Qatar on national currencies exchange, which resulted in Canada becoming the first offshore hub for the yuan in North America. This fact alone can potentially double or even triple the volume of trade between the two countries since the volume of the swap agreement signed between China and Canada is estimated to be a total of 200 billion yuans

....and...oh look Qatar....

China’s agreement with Qatar on direct currency swaps between the two countries are the equivalent of $ 5.7 billion and has cast a heavy blow to the petrodollar becoming the basis for the usage of the yuan in Middle East markets. It is no secret that the oil-producing countries of the Middle Eastern region have little trust in the US dollar due to the export of inflation, so one should expect other OPEC countries to sign agreements with China


https://journal-neo.org/2015/02/02/rus-dedollarizatsiya-i-ssha/

Cheers
 
Sep 25, 2009
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Re:

Brullnux said:
Why is Macron attempting to become the new King of France? Napoleon 2.0?
you know, i read the comment and felt att the parallel to bonaparte while interesting was a tad hasty...still think so now... but cant deny that macron in many respects, particularly at the G20, is expressing himself, presenting (or posing) including the facial expressions with the confidence reminiscent of his corsican predecessor.

i am still open minded on the man's actions prudence. like some, didn't form an opinion about many more ...

if it takes the corsican's style to move france out of its customary duality and vacillation, i would be the 1st unbiased student. he certainly earned the mandate to act the way he appears to act...lets see.
 
Jul 5, 2009
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Weird how you don't hear about Aleppo these days. A while back, when ISIS held the city, all you heard about is Assad bombing hospitals. 346,239 at last count. But now that it's been captured (i.e., liberated) by Syria, you don't hear anything. Assad loves killing his countrymen, so what gives? He saves them from the lung eaters and just stops gassing and barrel bombing them? The man is insane!!! Can't trust a guy that will kill on cue one day and provide liberty, safety, freedom the next.

John Swanson
 
Jul 4, 2009
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Re:

ScienceIsCool said:
Weird how you don't hear about Aleppo these days. A while back, when ISIS held the city, all you heard about is Assad bombing hospitals. 346,239 at last count. But now that it's been captured (i.e., liberated) by Syria, you don't hear anything. Assad loves killing his countrymen, so what gives? He saves them from the lung eaters and just stops gassing and barrel bombing them? The man is insane!!! Can't trust a guy that will kill on cue one day and provide liberty, safety, freedom the next.

John Swanson

....yep....insane, flip city, can't be trusted with even the simplest story line....you know the one with White Helmets, err, Hats and Black Beards, uhhh, Hats.....

Cheers
 
Re: Re:

python said:
Brullnux said:
Why is Macron attempting to become the new King of France? Napoleon 2.0?
you know, i read the comment and felt att the parallel to bonaparte while interesting was a tad hasty...still think so now... but cant deny that macron in many respects, particularly at the G20, is expressing himself, presenting (or posing) including the facial expressions with the confidence reminiscent of his corsican predecessor.

i am still open minded on the man's actions prudence. like some, didn't form an opinion about many more ...

if it takes the corsican's style to move france out of its customary duality and vacillation, i would be the 1st unbiased student. he certainly earned the mandate to act the way he appears to act...lets see.
I am not sure he really earned the mandate to do whatever he likes. The French parliamentary system is made for a country with the two major parties being centre-left and centre-right, and a runoff deciding it between them. A large centrist party was always going to do well as the left will support them against a rightwing candidate and the right will support them against the left (or in some cases Le Pen). In reality, he won less than a third of the first-preference vote, but almost two thirds of the seats. It could've been a lot worse too, as some predicted he'd get 450 seats.
 
Jul 4, 2009
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Re:

ScienceIsCool said:
Dastardly! That brutal Assad has the chained and shackled people of Aleppo out swimming, attending concerts, staying out late at local cafes. Someone (America) should come liberate those poor folks.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-15/photos-aleppo-rising-swimsuits-concerts-and-rebuilding-first-jihadi-free-summer

John Swanson

....like this "liberation"....?.....

The “liberation” of Mosul: Washington’s latest war crime in the Middle East

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/07/12/pers-j12.html

Cheers
 
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