World Politics

[python]

...as most probably remember, the obama admin at the very end of its term had seized some russian diplomatic property and expelled some 30 diplomats. the alleged reason for the drastic measure was the russian meddling in the us elections and spying. ruusia NEVER retaliated. this is highly unusual given the international diplomatic practice.

putting aside the long and well documented american record of spying and regime changes all over the world, i find it fascinating to observe and study how both the trump and vlad govts deal with the thorny issue they did not create :idea:

on the one hand, trump is under huge pressure at home due to this idiotic russia-gate hysterics. so he cant look soft on those he was accused created him...on the other, russia keeps saying officially (almost daily) that they are ready to retaliate in a symmetric manner. their threats are louder and louder, but, strangely, they have done nothing for already 7 month why :Question:

on the surface, the answer seems in their tactic not to irritate any further the already on the edge raging congress ready to pass a new set of anti russia sanctions. that may be so, but why then they keep yelling of a retaliation never actually delivering one ? as any student of history knows, any words not backed up by actions only incentify the object of the threats.

i think something else is going on. in that regard, yesterday's meeting btwn the russian and american assistants to foreign ministers is telling. while the russians issued 2 contradictory statements (an official - more threats and a private -'we almost struck a deal'), the state department said NOTHING. as if the meeting never took place.

sounds strange, isn't it ? not, if the assumption is they indeed reached some deal. Then the WH silence is understandable (keep the critics guessing) and the russian bluster aimed at the same audience and having the same purpose.

what's exactly in the deal is hard to say, but i'm pretty sure the diplomatic property will be returned and the diplomats will be quietly exchanged/replaced rather than bombastically 'expelled'.

i do think tillerson is much to be credited if my hunch is right... he may be not as honorable as the 'honorable mr kerry', but he's an order of magnitude smarter than the ketchup prince...

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Re:

...as most probably remember, the obama admin at the very end of its term had seized some russian diplomatic property and expelled some 30 diplomats. the alleged reason for the drastic measure was the russian meddling in the us elections and spying. ruusia NEVER retaliated. this is highly unusual given the international diplomatic practice.

putting aside the long and well documented american record of spying and regime changes all over the world, i find it fascinating to observe and study how both the trump and vlad govts deal with the thorny issue they did not create :idea:

on the one hand, trump is under huge pressure at home due to this idiotic russia-gate hysterics. so he cant look soft on those he was accused created him...on the other, russia keeps saying officially (almost daily) that they are ready to retaliate in a symmetric manner. their threats are louder and louder, but, strangely, they have done nothing for already 7 month why :Question:

on the surface, the answer seems in their tactic not to irritate any further the already on the edge raging congress ready to pass a new set of anti russia sanctions. that may be so, but why then they keep yelling of a retaliation never actually delivering one ? as any student of history knows, any words not backed up by actions only incentify the object of the threats.

i think something else is going on. in that regard, yesterday's meeting btwn the russian and american assistants to foreign ministers is telling. while the russians issued 2 contradictory statements (an official - more threats and a private -'we almost struck a deal'), the state department said NOTHING. as if the meeting never took place.

sounds strange, isn't it ? not, if the assumption is they indeed reached some deal. Then the WH silence is understandable (keep the critics guessing) and the russian bluster aimed at the same audience and having the same purpose.

what's exactly in the deal is hard to say, but i'm pretty sure the diplomatic property will be returned and the diplomats will be quietly exchanged/replaced rather than bombastically 'expelled'.

i do think tillerson is much to be credited if my hunch is right... he may be not as honorable as the 'honorable mr kerry', but he's an order of magnitude smarter than the ketchup prince...

I picked up on that also. Seems that they have come to an agreement with respect to the property and diplomats. "Honorable mr ketchup prince" that is a great one. I remember when that person here posted that mr. ketchup prince was honorable, that was a good laugh.
in my opinion tillerson has been doing a good bit of work.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Speaking of Tillerson. Seems he was able to convince the president that Iran was holding up their end of the agreement.

I don't think the deal with Iran was a good idea. But it has been done and the only way to move forward is do what is necessary to make Iran uphold their agreement.

http://www.salon.com/2017/07/18/donald-trump-signs-off-on-obamas-iran-deal-which-he-promised-to-scrap/

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

...as most probably remember, the obama admin at the very end of its term had seized some russian diplomatic property and expelled some 30 diplomats. the alleged reason for the drastic measure was the russian meddling in the us elections and spying. ruusia NEVER retaliated. this is highly unusual given the international diplomatic practice.

putting aside the long and well documented american record of spying and regime changes all over the world, i find it fascinating to observe and study how both the trump and vlad govts deal with the thorny issue they did not create :idea:

on the one hand, trump is under huge pressure at home due to this idiotic russia-gate hysterics. so he cant look soft on those he was accused created him...on the other, russia keeps saying officially (almost daily) that they are ready to retaliate in a symmetric manner. their threats are louder and louder, but, strangely, they have done nothing for already 7 month why :Question:

on the surface, the answer seems in their tactic not to irritate any further the already on the edge raging congress ready to pass a new set of anti russia sanctions. that may be so, but why then they keep yelling of a retaliation never actually delivering one ? as any student of history knows, any words not backed up by actions only incentify the object of the threats.

i think something else is going on. in that regard, yesterday's meeting btwn the russian and american assistants to foreign ministers is telling. while the russians issued 2 contradictory statements (an official - more threats and a private -'we almost struck a deal'), the state department said NOTHING. as if the meeting never took place.

sounds strange, isn't it ? not, if the assumption is they indeed reached some deal. Then the WH silence is understandable (keep the critics guessing) and the russian bluster aimed at the same audience and having the same purpose.

what's exactly in the deal is hard to say, but i'm pretty sure the diplomatic property will be returned and the diplomats will be quietly exchanged/replaced rather than bombastically 'expelled'.

i do think tillerson is much to be credited if my hunch is right... he may be not as honorable as the 'honorable mr kerry', but he's an order of magnitude smarter than the ketchup prince...

Considering how much he's dogged over anything Russia related, Trump will probably not open up about this. He'll continue what Obama started by taking this property back and if need be, expel more Russian diplomats. How many have been expelled thus far? Until the Democrats and the mainstream media cool off a bit, he won't do anything that may look 'pro-Russia.'

 

[Jagartrott]

Poland was already going the wrong way, now they are looking to remove the last barriers between the political and the justice system. The EU cannot stand idle.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/19/poland-may-lose-eu-voting-rights-over-judicial-independence

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Re:

Poland was already going the wrong way, now they are looking to remove the last barriers between the political and the justice system. The EU cannot stand idle.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/19/poland-may-lose-eu-voting-rights-over-judicial-independence

LOOOKKKKKK out.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

Poland was already going the wrong way, now they are looking to remove the last barriers between the political and the justice system. The EU cannot stand idle.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/19/poland-may-lose-eu-voting-rights-over-judicial-independence

LOOOKKKKKK out.

How dare a sovereign nation make decisions by itself for itself!!

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Poland was already going the wrong way, now they are looking to remove the last barriers between the political and the justice system. The EU cannot stand idle.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/19/poland-may-lose-eu-voting-rights-over-judicial-independence

LOOOKKKKKK out.

How dare a sovereign nation make decisions by itself for itself!!

Then leave the EU if you don't like it. But stripping away a vital component of a democracy isn't compatible with the EU (despite its own democratic deficiencies), or any modern western country for that matter, like it or not. But I suppose that 11 billion windfall is too good to lose. None of this changes the fact that what the Polish government is doing is stupidly regressive and authoritarian: they seem to be taking example from Erdogan. Yet, when Erdogan had his referendum everyone here seemed to be lamenting it endlessly (rightly so). But this is fine? Just because the EU is involved?

 

[Brullnux]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/19/eu-will-wither-and-die-if-it-does-not-change-policy-on-israel-netanyahu

Hopefully Netanyahu's government will wither and die as soon as possible as well. Poland seems to be shooting itself in the foot here slightly. The removal of an independent judiciary first, and this too - making friends with one of the EU's main enemies. Poland is about as EU dependent as you can get, 2% of their GDP comes from the EU and over two thirds of their exports go to EU countries. Making them angry doesn't strike me, from a purely logical point of view, as the best idea.

 

[blutto]

Re: Re:

Poland was already going the wrong way, now they are looking to remove the last barriers between the political and the justice system. The EU cannot stand idle.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/19/poland-may-lose-eu-voting-rights-over-judicial-independence

LOOOKKKKKK out.

How dare a sovereign nation make decisions by itself for itself!!

....absolutely correct....but...if you want to play in the EU you sorta kinda have to play by their rules eh ( that is sorta the catch )....I mean if the current Polish government really feels strongly about this they should just take a hike....though I have a feeling if they did so they may find their chances in the next election rather diminished....I mean they could always enter into a trade relationship with their really good friends, the Russians, and really spite the EU...just sayin' eh...

Cheers

 

[python]

Re: Re:

Poland was already going the wrong way, now they are looking to remove the last barriers between the political and the justice system. The EU cannot stand idle.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/19/poland-may-lose-eu-voting-rights-over-judicial-independence

LOOOKKKKKK out.

How dare a sovereign nation make decisions by itself for itself!!

....absolutely correct....but...if you want to play in the EU you sorta kinda have to play by their rules eh ( that is sorta the catch )....I mean if the current Polish government really feels strongly about this they should just take a hike....though I have a feeling if they did so they may find their chances in the next election rather diminished....I mean they could always enter into a trade relationship with their really good friends, the Russians, and really spite the EU...just sayin' eh...

Cheers

good point. i have met and talked to several polish citizens and tourists here in nyc. them being mostly in their 20s and thirties. curiously, when the conversation swung to eastern european politics, i did NOT detect a particular anti-russian sentiment. could be b/c they are a younger generation...anyway, this was not what i read in history books.

still, if i was to trend the polish foreign policy future based on their more recent moves, i'd lean to the opinion they are already spiting europe by drawing closer to ...the us. in the rest of europe the us popularity is sinking very fast. not so in poland.

 

[blutto]

....hmmm, this may be more complisticated than we thought....interesting about the lack of Russo-phobia among young Poles, something that has been a mark of Poland for quite a while....

If the feeling of pity would be worth a damn one would be tempted to feel sorry for the hapless Poles. Now Poland’s leaders have again been seduced, this time by a dangerous Washington stratagem: to try to become the Natural Gas Hub of the EU displacing Germany and pushing Russia out.

The Poles seem to have a penchant to fall for self-destructive projects. That was the case in 1939 when the Polish Foreign Minister Józef Beck signed with Britain and later France the Polish-British Common Defense Pact believing that Britain would defend Poland’s sovereignty in the event of a Nazi invasion only to find itself divided as spoils of war by Hitler and Stalin while Britain and France stood by quietly smiling. They had another agenda from the Poles.

It was also the case when the Polish people, especially Lech Walesa, believed the Reagan CIA and National Endowment for Democracy. Solidarność, with millions in CIA and State Department money via the National Endowment for Democracy, a CIA NGO-front, took Poland from the frying pan of Soviet control to the fire of George Soros and his Harvard Boys with their free market hyperinflation and looting of the nation’s most valuable assets. The “national DNA” if we can speak of such, seems to lack one or more vital amino acids that cause them to distort true perception of who their friends and who their enemies are.

Now, during the recent “red carpet” reception of US President Trump in Warsaw, the Poles fell all over themselves to embrace the US President and to believe his promises to make Poland a rival to Russian natural gas for the EU. In his July 6 remarks to the meeting of the Three Seas Initiative in Warsaw Trump told the leaders present that they should take US energy exports as an alternative to dependence on Russian gas.

The Three Seas Initiative is a loose effort of 12 Central and East European nations to coordinate energy policies among others. Trump told his Polish audience, clearly referring to Russia, “Let me be clear about one crucial point. The United States will never use energy to coerce your nations, and we cannot allow others to do so. You don’t want to have a monopoly or a monopolistic situation.” He then went on to state “We are committed to securing your access to alternate sources of energy, so Poland and its neighbors are never again held hostage to a single supplier of energy.”

LNG Energy Hub?

Trump’s stop in Warsaw on route to the Hamburg G20 summit was calculated to feed Polish dreams of US backing to block the Russian-German Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline under the Baltic Sea from Ust Luga south of St. Petersburg to Greifswald, Germany midway between Berlin and Hamburg and 80 km from the Polish border.

The Poles are furious that they lose not only the transit fees from Gazprom for a Polish pipeline from Ukraine. They also want to push Russia’s Gazprom out of the huge and growing EU gas energy market. This is precisely the Trump Administration long-term agenda. In his meetings with the Polish government Trump reportedly spoke about LNG gas infrastructure and the enormous possibilities to import US LNG from its surplus of shale gas.

US shale gas sent by special tankers from the very limited number of LNG terminals existing in the USA East Coast and Gulf of Mexico doesn’t come cheap.

This June the first US shipment of LNG came to Poland from Cheniere Energy’s Sabine Pass plant in Louisiana. And it didn’t come cheap. Energy consultants estimate the price at the Polish LNG terminal in Swinoujscie to be $5.97 per million British thermal units. The same gas in the US market today goes for around $3 per million Btu. Estimates are that Russian gas to Germany costs about $5 per MBtu. The Poles are getting suckered because of their Russophobia and manipulation by Washington.

....and while Brzezinski is dead his insanity lives on ....

A NATO Energy Strategy

The Polish strategy has been a long time in the making, and supported by the US and the Atlantic Council. Already in 2014 Poland began construction on its liquefied natural gas (LNG) terminal, in the Baltic port of Swinoujscie at a cost of nearly $1 billion. It can accept 5 billion cubic metres of gas per year, and is discussing doubling that. But that’s only the first part of what in fact is a NATO strategy to drive Russian gas out of EU markets.

The strategy calls for making Poland a natural gas hub for Central Europe via linking of Poland with Lithuania, Ukraine, Slovakia and the Czech Republic through interconnectors.

It’s part of what’s called the Three Seas Initiative, founded last year by Poland and Croatia to link energy strategies among the twelve countries bordering the Adriatic, the Baltic and the Black Sea. Croatia’s government is also trying to construct a controversial floating LNG terminal on the island of Krk in the Adria amid major opposition in the popular Croatian tourist region of Istria. In addition to Poland and Croatia the initiative includes Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Slovenia and Austria, almost all of whom are presently relying on Russian natural gas.

Atlantic Council, the Washington-based think tank de facto of NATO strategy, is the public driver of the Three Seas Initiative to try to push Russian gas out from the former communist countries of Eastern and Central Europe. Ironically, Germany and other Western EU countries back the Gazprom Nord Stream II already in construction, putting them in conflict with Poland’s Three Seas Initiative.

In addition to taking aim at Russia energy influence in the eastern and central European EU states, the Trump policy on LNG gas to Poland and potentially Croatia is aimed at hitting the dominant influence of Germany and France over EU affairs. The latest US Senate economic sanctions against Russia take direct aim at the companies involved in backing the German-Russian Nord Stream II pipeline expansion across the Baltic independent of Poland transit. If passed by the House of Representatives and signed by Trump, it would impose severe economic sanctions on EU companies involved in energy projects with Russia, such as Nord Stream II.

Washington’s New ‘Gas Great Game’

One feature of the Washington Deep State is that their strategic imagination is limited to what seemed to work for them a century or so ago until recently, namely control of energy. In the past several years, in addition to countless Pentagon wars for control of oil such as the 2003 occupation of Iraq and the destruction of Libya in 2011, the US-steered war against Bashar al-Assad until today, is fundamentally a war for control of energy, specifically natural gas energy

A second cornerstone of the new Washington strategy is to sabotage an emerging Qatar-Iran-Syria-Turkey natural gas alliance to bring the world’s largest natural gas reserves in the shared gas field in the Persian Gulf straddling both Iranian and Qatari territorial waters

In reality, the Qatar blockade by the Saudis is aimed not at stopping radical terrorists. It is aimed at keeping Iranian and Qatari and potentially Syrian gas out of the EU gas market, potentially the world’s largest gas consumer in coming years.

There is a fatal flaw in the new Washington gas wars geopolitical strategy. Despite the fact that there are another 12 LNG ports under construction along the US East Coast and Gulf of Mexico, the reliability of USA shale gas supplies over the long term is highly dubious.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2017/07/18/neo-the-fatal-flaw-in-washingtons-new-energy-strategy/

....do note this is a strategy that was hatched during the Obummer years....you know the peace president....

Cheers

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Poland was already going the wrong way, now they are looking to remove the last barriers between the political and the justice system. The EU cannot stand idle.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/19/poland-may-lose-eu-voting-rights-over-judicial-independence

LOOOKKKKKK out.

How dare a sovereign nation make decisions by itself for itself!!

....absolutely correct....but...if you want to play in the EU you sorta kinda have to play by their rules eh ( that is sorta the catch )....I mean if the current Polish government really feels strongly about this they should just take a hike....though I have a feeling if they did so they may find their chances in the next election rather diminished....I mean they could always enter into a trade relationship with their really good friends, the Russians, and really spite the EU...just sayin' eh...

Cheers

good point. i have met and talked to several polish citizens and tourists here in nyc. them being mostly in their 20s and thirties. curiously, when the conversation swung to eastern european politics, i did NOT detect a particular anti-russian sentiment. could be b/c they are a younger generation...anyway, this was not what i read in history books.

still, if i was to trend the polish foreign policy future based on their more recent moves, i'd lean to the opinion they are already spiting europe by drawing closer to ...the us. in the rest of europe the us popularity is sinking very fast. not so in poland.

As a Polish person who regularly visits Poland and follows the Polish political situation this is not remotely the impression I have of Polish sentiment.

But if it makes you feel better to think that your hero Joseph Putin is actually liked by some people, then go ahead.

 

[python]

you remark is really stupid on 3 accounts.
1. i clearly spoke of those young poles i met in nyc. not any other poles, particularly those with warped minds like yours
2. I never mentioned the polish sentiments towards vlad, but the russians. you made the projection b/c clearly reading what's written isn't fitting your preconceptions. stupid.
3. I never had and still dont have any political heros. using the josef putin tag is not only really very smart, in fact it is rather stupid attributing the hyperbola feeling to anyone.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

re: SU-35 at MAKS 2017

Here's an amazing demonstration of what thrust vectoring, 6 control surfaces, and some serious programming will get you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkeJKVk5SE8

John Swanson

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re:

re: SU-35 at MAKS 2017

Here's an amazing demonstration of what thrust vectoring, 6 control surfaces, and some serious programming will get you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkeJKVk5SE8

John Swanson

Yes, Fulcrum/Flanker 'series' very good, Cat 4 aircraft. Simple, numerous.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re: Re:

re: SU-35 at MAKS 2017

Here's an amazing demonstration of what thrust vectoring, 6 control surfaces, and some serious programming will get you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkeJKVk5SE8

John Swanson

Yes, Fulcrum/Flanker 'series' very good, Cat 4 aircraft. Simple, numerous.

My big worry is the undisclosed capabilities of the Khibiny system and the hints that stealth really isn't. That means F-22 and F-35 plus F-18 against an "aware" SU-27 times a thousand plus SU-35 and maybe soon PAK-FA. Penetrating Russian defense also means defeating the venerable S-400 and the maybe, who knows,"Triumfator-M" S-500. Never, ever underestimate your enemy. Remember the baltics and the use of microwave ovens to defeat HARMs.

John Swanson

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Background: when the US decide to beak up Yugoslavia into the "Balkan states" that we enjoy today, the Serbians used a thousand dollar technique to defeat a million dollar one. Nearby your radar systems, put a dozen or more microwave ovens out in a field. Take the doors off and point them at the sky. When a jet whooshes past, turn off your radar and turn on your microwave ovens. The HARM missiles then glide down onto and destroy your field of microwave ovens. Commence turning on our air defense systems.

John Swanson

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

re: SU-35 at MAKS 2017

Here's an amazing demonstration of what thrust vectoring, 6 control surfaces, and some serious programming will get you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkeJKVk5SE8

John Swanson

Yes, Fulcrum/Flanker 'series' very good, Cat 4 aircraft. Simple, numerous.

My big worry is the undisclosed capabilities of the Khibiny system and the hints that stealth really isn't. That means F-22 and F-35 plus F-18 against an "aware" SU-27 times a thousand plus SU-35 and maybe soon PAK-FA. Penetrating Russian defense also means defeating the venerable S-400 and the maybe, who knows,"Triumfator-M" S-500. Never, ever underestimate your enemy. Remember the baltics and the use of microwave ovens to defeat HARMs.

John Swanson

I know this is what the USN and USAF train for but if we are 'penetrating Russian defense', the big heat is next.

F-22/F-35 isn't 'the answer', and the PAK-FA capabilities pale in comparison to fielded F-22/F-35. BUT, yes, an ongoing process, not any answer.

 

[python]

Re: Re:

My big worry is the undisclosed capabilities of the Khibiny system and the hints that stealth really isn't. That means F-22 and F-35 plus F-18 against an "aware" SU-27 times a thousand plus SU-35 and maybe soon PAK-FA. Penetrating Russian defense also means defeating the venerable S-400 and the maybe, who knows,"Triumfator-M" S-500. Never, ever underestimate your enemy. Remember the baltics and the use of microwave ovens to defeat HARMs.

John Swanson

we dont know how much of the 'microwave oven' story is accurate...however that balkan conflict did reveal some facts that are inarguable and well documented...an ancient russian-made GtA missile designed in the early 60s did kill the latest and bestest at the time - the 'invisible' F-117.

again, the true story had grown some layers since then, but the core that it was the ancient s-75 is inarguable.

of course it does NOT mean that the s-400 and s-500 will shoot any american stealth out of the sky. the modern attack and countermeasures must be far more sophisticated nowadays than in the 90s.

all we can say is that the s-300, the 400 and 500 predecessor, was widely acknowledged by nato as a very potent system. the newer GtA s-400 and s-500 must have incorporated the lessons learned. just like the nato planners are also not standing still.

yet, as was stated by erdogan himself yesterday, turkey-the nato member - had signed a deal with russia for the unknown number of s-400.

cant be too bad of a system i guess....

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

My big worry is the undisclosed capabilities of the Khibiny system and the hints that stealth really isn't. That means F-22 and F-35 plus F-18 against an "aware" SU-27 times a thousand plus SU-35 and maybe soon PAK-FA. Penetrating Russian defense also means defeating the venerable S-400 and the maybe, who knows,"Triumfator-M" S-500. Never, ever underestimate your enemy. Remember the baltics and the use of microwave ovens to defeat HARMs.

John Swanson

we dont know how much of the 'microwave oven' story is accurate...however that balkan conflict did reveal some facts that are inarguable and well documented...an ancient russian-made GtA missile designed in the early 60s did kill the latest and bestest at the time - the 'invisible' F-117.

again, the true story had grown some layers since then, but the core that it was the ancient s-75 is inarguable.

of course it does NOT mean that the s-400 and s-500 will shoot any american stealth out of the sky. the modern attack and countermeasures must be far more sophisticated nowadays than in the 90s.

all we can say is that the s-300, the 400 and 500 predecessor, was widely acknowledged by nato as a very potent system. the newer GtA s-400 and s-500 must have incorporated the lessons learned. just like the nato planners are also not standing still.

yet, as was stated by erdogan himself yesterday, turkey-the nato member - had signed a deal with russia for the unknown number of s-400.

cant be too bad of a system i guess....

'Price' was right..to not only get a good system but poke a stick into NATOs eye...Gotta wonder how long Erdogan can play both sides of the street.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re: Re:

'Price' was right..to not only get a good system but poke a stick into NATOs eye...Gotta wonder how long Erdogan can play both sides of the street.

But the prom's going to end sometime and he has to go home with *someone*. I wonder what his end game is? See if he can get some loot from the new Silk Road? Or maybe make NATO sweat enough that it gives up something even juicier? Maybe he hasn't decided yet! It's awfully risky, whatever he's up to.

John Swanson

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

'Price' was right..to not only get a good system but poke a stick into NATOs eye...Gotta wonder how long Erdogan can play both sides of the street.

But the prom's going to end sometime and he has to go home with *someone*. I wonder what his end game is? See if he can get some loot from the new Silk Road? Or maybe make NATO sweat enough that it gives up something even juicier? Maybe he hasn't decided yet! It's awfully risky, whatever he's up to.

John Swanson

Just a look at the map says, yes, it's very risky. He's not in the friendliest region on earth.

 

[python]

Re:

...as most probably remember, the obama admin at the very end of its term had seized some russian diplomatic property and expelled some 30 diplomats. the alleged reason for the drastic measure was the russian meddling in the us elections and spying. ruusia NEVER retaliated. this is highly unusual given the international diplomatic practice.

putting aside the long and well documented american record of spying and regime changes all over the world, i find it fascinating to observe and study how both the trump and vlad govts deal with the thorny issue they did not create :idea:

on the one hand, trump is under huge pressure at home due to this idiotic russia-gate hysterics. so he cant look soft on those he was accused created him...on the other, russia keeps saying officially (almost daily) that they are ready to retaliate in a symmetric manner. their threats are louder and louder, but, strangely, they have done nothing for already 7 month why :Question:

on the surface, the answer seems in their tactic not to irritate any further the already on the edge raging congress ready to pass a new set of anti russia sanctions. that may be so, but why then they keep yelling of a retaliation never actually delivering one ? as any student of history knows, any words not backed up by actions only incentify the object of the threats.

i think something else is going on. in that regard, yesterday's meeting btwn the russian and american assistants to foreign ministers is telling. while the russians issued 2 contradictory statements (an official - more threats and a private -'we almost struck a deal'), the state department said NOTHING. as if the meeting never took place.

sounds strange, isn't it ? not, if the assumption is they indeed reached some deal. Then the WH silence is understandable (keep the critics guessing) and the russian bluster aimed at the same audience and having the same purpose.

what's exactly in the deal is hard to say, but i'm pretty sure the diplomatic property will be returned and the diplomats will be quietly exchanged/replaced rather than bombastically 'expelled'.

i do think tillerson is much to be credited if my hunch is right... he may be not as honorable as the 'honorable mr kerry', but he's an order of magnitude smarter than the ketchup prince...

quoting myself to indicate that my hunch carefully proposed in that post was dead wrong
Russia orders U.S. to cut diplomatic staff, says to seize diplomatic property
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-retaliation-idUSKBN1AD12V?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Reuters%2FworldNews+%28Reuters+World+News%29

never underestimate the american empereius arrogance now bordering on almost hysterical stupidity after the hillary loss to trump...

if i am not wrong (again), i noted 2 (now 3) curious moments in the russian retaliation:
1. after 7 months of delaying the mirror retaliation (that is, immediately expelling 35 diplomats and seizing the diplomatic property), they now had no choice but do something...b/c trump is now by law powerless to undo the obama diplomatic sanctions
2. again, curiously, the russians did not specify the number of american diplomats to leave, like the obama order (35). they 'suggested' to voluntarily bring the american diplomatic staff in moscow to a parity with the russia's in washington. and they gave a rather ample time to do so - til 1 sept. this is very generous compared to what the russian diplomats got (with their families) - 48 hours.
3. pardon, just thought of this one. when a country expels a bunch of named diplomats, particularly as in obama's order 'for spying', the expelled are considered engaged in spying under the dimplomatic cover and are the 1st to pack up. the russians though did not jump on the opportunity to reduce the known american spies. they sort of said; 'we and you know who the spies are. remove them quietly before we do it loudly'

again, a calculated, modest and discrete move over an impulsive, angry and bombastic 'punishment'.

i doubt NOW that russia will jump at the opportunity to do any american bidding like in north korea, iran south china sea or south america.

american foreigh policy is turning more and more stupid. my opinion.

 

[blutto]

The Saudi regime is in the midst of an extreme and brutal crackdown against its own citizenry in the country's Eastern province - a situation now spiraling out of control with rising civilian deaths, entire neighborhoods turned to rubble, and new reports that water and electricity have been cut to the now completely besieged town of Al-Awamiya. Though local activists continue to upload shocking ground level videos to social media revealing that entire districts have been leveled, international and US media have remained largely silent.

Tensions have been simmering in the heavily Shia populated Qatif governate throughout the past year, especially after the January execution of prominent Shia cleric and Al-Awamiya native Nimr al-Nimr. Additionally, 14 Shia citizens, among them young Mujtaba al-Sweikat - a student enrolled at Western Michigan University - currently await execution upon the signature of King Salman. The torture and mass trial of the group, charged with "protest-related" crimes has further inflamed tensions in the region. Large protests against the Saudi monarchy and security services have been frequent in Qatif going all the way back to the start of the so-called "Arab Spring" - though major international media outlets have tended to ignore such protests occurring under US/UK friendly regimes.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-04/

Cheers