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Obama's mistakes:
1.) He didn't capitalize on the anti-Bush sentiments in driving home the fact that the current problems with the US economy began during the Republican White House tenure, and are directly related to the party's lack of enforcing more severe regulations upon Wall Street's financial banks. He should have followed Regan's example who blamed the poor economy and increased unemployment of 1981 entirely on the Carter administration. Obama's like claims toward Bush, would have had greater impact because entirely true. This seems to be the greatest problem with Democrats: namely, unlike Republicans, they cut too many breaks to the opposition, which in today's situation is absolutely unpardonable.

2.) He should have been much more severe with the banks and the obscene executive bonuses they continue to administer, which seems a smack in the face to all those who lost their savings. It is also political suicide.

3.) His package of economic stimulus to save the fiancial banks and Wall Street from public funds was totally insufficient to increase employment and therefore consumer spending. Frankly I'd of let them all fail. Only then would they have learned a lesson. To hell with the economy based on the finacialization of profit. But if one must bail them out, then his treatment wasn't nearly heavy enough. Now those who were sceptical or adverse to this type of government spending, are saying not that "it wasn't enough," but that "it doesn't work." He wasn't distracted, just wrong in how the therapy was applied.

4.) No real exit strategy for the wars in Iraq and Afghanastan. This is also loosing him international consensus.

The healthcare issue is a no win situation. Because of the opposition of the all powerful insurance industry, it will never come about as it should. Yet it is the right thing to do and even if he arrives at a partially socialized healthcare system, it will be more than any of his predicessors have been able to achieve.
 

ravens

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rhubroma said:
Obama's mistakes:
1.) He didn't capitalize on the anti-Bush sentiments in driving home the fact that the current problems with the US economy begain during the Republican White House tenure, and are directly related to the party's lack of enforcing more severe regulations upon Wall Street's financial banks. He should have followed Regan's example who blamed the poor economy and increased unemployment of 1981 entirely on the Carter administration. Obama's like claims toward Bush, would have had greater impact because entirely true. This seems to be the greatest problem with Democrats: namely, unlike Republicans, they cut too many breaks to the opposition, which in today's situation is absolutely unpardonable.

2.) He should have been much more severe with the banks and the obscene executive bonuses they continue to administer, which seems a smack in the face to all those who lost their savings. It is also political suicide.

3.) His package of economic stimulus to save the fiancial banks and Wall Street from public funds was totally insufficient to increase employment and therefore consumer spending. Frankly I'd of let them all fail. Only then would they have learned a lesson. To hell with the economy based on the finacialization of profit. But if one must bail them out, then his treatment wasn't nearly heavy enough. Now those who were sceptical or adverse to this type of government spending, are saying not that "it wasn't enough," but that "it doesn't work." He wasn't distracted, just wrong in how the therapy was applied.

4.) No real exit strategy for the wars in Iraq and Afghanastan. This is also loosing him international consensus.

The healthcare issue is a no win situation. Because of the opposition of the all powerful insurance industry, it will never come about as it should. Yet it is the right thing to do and even if he arrives at a partially socialized healthcare system, it will be more than any of his predicessors have been able to achieve.

It's not too late to start! He has 9 1/2 months before the mid terms and I hope he really starts pushing that agenda aggressively. And whatever the reults of the mid terms, he needs to keep pushing it, very very hard.

One thing about you folks, the excuse is 'we never went far enough. ' You have the house, the senate, the judiciary and the white house, go as far as you want, what is there to stop you?
 

ravens

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Alpe d'Huez said:
Two really good articles that are very concise about what happened. These are short, and I'd recommend anyone read them:

Penn State professor John Rossi perfectly explains what happened.

US News publisher Mort Zuckerman is even more direct.

Neither of these guys are radical political anything. Just insightful. Well worth reading.

The zuckerman article was reported where a conservative like me gets his news!

A savage article by a totally disgusted Obama supporter.

What baffles me is how those who didn't know how he would govern are surprised by the disaster he created. (Or exacerbated, if you must.)

I am completely unsurprised by what he has done.
 
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Two really good articles that are very concise about what happened. These are short, and I'd recommend anyone read them:

Penn State professor John Rossi perfectly explains what happened.

US News publisher Mort Zuckerman is even more direct.

Neither of these guys are radical political anything. Just insightful. Well worth reading.

Both are good reads. Obama needed enormous case studies from other western nations, why they spend less and get more for their health care expenditures. He also needed to make health care a human rights issue. The fact that he will accept any plan that doesn't cover everybody is a defeat that will be hard to fix for another 20 years. Health coverage tied to your employer is something that nobody in the 1st world understands.

He has got irons in lots of fires, watching wall street give out 7 and 8 figure bonuses was an act of contempt that a bank tax will not correct. I agree with Zuckerman, Obama is trying to boil the ocean.

When the high profile terror trials happen in NYC and when the underwear bomber gets his day in court Obama is going to look like he was asleep at yet another switch. It's the economy silly,not ideals.
 

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fatandfast said:
He has got irons in lots of fires, watching wall street give out 7 and 8 figure bonuses was an act of contempt that a bank tax will not correct. I agree with Zuckerman, Obama is trying to boil the ocean.

When the high profile terror trials happen in NYC and when the underwear bomber gets his day in court Obama is going to look like he was asleep at yet another switch. It's the economy silly,not ideals.

I wonder if Zuck. was aware that that line was gonna be money when he wrote it. I doubt it. But it encapsulates the last year in 7 short easily understood words.

I heard him on Stephanopoulos saying the reason voters are angry is because of the last 8 years. Please, God, I ask for so little (and get even less) but PLEASE let him keep saying that at every opportunity for the next 10 months (at least).
 
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fatandfast said:
Both are good reads. Obama needed enormous case studies from other western nations, why they spend less and get more for their health care expenditures. He also needed to make health care a human rights issue. The fact that he will accept any plan that doesn't cover everybody is a defeat that will be hard to fix for another 20 years. Health coverage tied to your employer is something that nobody in the 1st world understands.

He has got irons in lots of fires, watching wall street give out 7 and 8 figure bonuses was an act of contempt that a bank tax will not correct. I agree with Zuckerman, Obama is trying to boil the ocean.

When the high profile terror trials happen in NYC and when the underwear bomber gets his day in court Obama is going to look like he was asleep at yet another switch. It's the economy silly,not ideals.

First highlighted point is without any sort of healthcare reform bill being passed, it will take at least another 15 years to get the process started again (look at the 90's). You have to have something to make amendments to with additional 'lite' legislation. The course work Dems are doing is exactly what needs to be done. Unfortunately, Mr Brown will have freshman power of derailment.

Second highlighted issue. Criminals need to be dealt with the same everywhere. Barbaric societies deal with their problems behind closed doors and in cold blood.
 
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ravens said:
I wonder if Zuck. was aware that that line was gonna be money when he wrote it. I doubt it. But it encapsulates the last year in 7 short easily understood words.

I heard him on Stephanopoulos saying the reason voters are angry is because of the last 8 years. Please, God, I ask for so little (and get even less) but PLEASE let him keep saying that at every opportunity for the next 10 months (at least).

And you guys please keep pushing a moron from Alaska who isn't smart enough to realize she was governor of a state with the biggest Socialist program of any state in the union. Honestly, it says everything one needs to know about your party. Also make sure to keep tea bagging each other, seeing morons unite like that makes me all warm and fuzzy.
 
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Two really good articles that are very concise about what happened. These are short, and I'd recommend anyone read them:

Penn State professor John Rossi perfectly explains what happened.

US News publisher Mort Zuckerman is even more direct.

Neither of these guys are radical political anything. Just insightful. Well worth reading.

Americans have turned into a ritalin culture of fast-food impatience. None of this stuff can be 'fixed' in one year. Criticism at this point of the administration and democratic party rule lacks understanding of they way our system was designed to operate.
 
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I also find it most humorous that a RINO in Mass gets elected, and the leader of your party (Limbaugh) is crowing about it. Isn't that the exact opposite of what he says is happening in the country?
 
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And the biggest news of the day is that your conservative Supreme Court just allowed corporate money to openly buy every future election. (they were doing it privately anyway, now they are just unfettered in their pursuit.) Populism is dead fellas. Don't come whining when our country is dead. Me, I am considering a move to Germany. We have the worst government money can buy, and the conservative mindset just made things much sleazier. And you guys think people hate us because of "freedom." I don't even have words....
 

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Thoughtforfood said:
And the biggest news of the day is that your conservative Supreme Court just allowed corporate money to openly buy every future election. (they were doing it privately anyway, now they are just unfettered in their pursuit.) Populism is dead fellas. Don't come whining when our country is dead. Me, I am considering a move to Germany. We have the worst government money can buy, and the conservative mindset just made things much sleazier. And you guys think people hate us because of "freedom." I don't even have words....

don't let the door....
 

ravens

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scribe said:
Americans have turned into a ritalin culture of fast-food impatience. None of this stuff can be 'fixed' in one year. Criticism at this point of the administration and democratic party rule lacks understanding of they way our system was designed to operate.

something we can agree on!

moderates/independents are brilliant when voting for your ideals, morons when voting against them.

I made up my mind on these folks long ago. They are dangerous in an election booth. A) Fickle, B)Over-emotional C) Too Easily bullied, D) Gullible E)Naive F) Stupid G)Unpredictable H)Under/misinformed. I) Irrational. J) Not nearly as smart as they think they are.

If we can find a way to innoculate ourselves from the hideous choices they make, we would all be better off. They hold us hostage to their fuzzy headed thinking. LEFT and RIGHT.
 
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Ill make you a deal. You keep the red states, dems will keep the blue states. If someone don't like it, they know where to move.
 

Oncearunner8

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scribe said:
First highlighted point is without any sort of healthcare reform bill being passed, it will take at least another 15 years to get the process started again (look at the 90's). You have to have something to make amendments to with additional 'lite' legislation. The course work Dems are doing is exactly what needs to be done. Unfortunately, Mr Brown will have freshman power of derailment.

Second highlighted issue. Criminals need to be dealt with the same everywhere. Barbaric societies deal with their problems behind closed doors and in cold blood.

That must hurt?
Is he REALLY a Republican? In my opinion he is not. Interesting that The Peoples Republic of Massachusetts has started yet another civil uprising.

“Criminals” is this really how the Terrorist need to be treated? I have to admit I have no other good ideas on what should be done with a Terrorist but either way it is the US taxpayer who picks up the tab.
 

Oncearunner8

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Thoughtforfood said:
And you guys please keep pushing a moron from Alaska who isn't smart enough to realize she was governor of a state with the biggest Socialist program of any state in the union. Honestly, it says everything one needs to know about your party. Also make sure to keep tea bagging each other, seeing morons unite like that makes me all warm and fuzzy.

I have to agree with you about palin. She is a horrible representation for any state. Not sure she represents all Elephants but a large majority of them go out of their way to hear what she is spewing from her pie hole.

Still not sure why someone would describe a peoples protest as Tea Bagging???????? WTF I thought that is the purpose and basic rights of the United States? If not for protest’s then the Vietnam War would have lasted a lot longer than what it did.
 

Oncearunner8

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scribe said:
Ill make you a deal. You keep the red states, dems will keep the blue states. If someone don't like it, they know where to move.

Yeah I hear you.

Funny but I would tend to think it is the Blue Cities and the red suburbs?

I believe there is some type of study which would show that this also correlates to percentage of higher education. Just guessing not any real research on my part.
 
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Oncearunner8 said:
That must hurt?
Is he REALLY a Republican? In my opinion he is not. Interesting that The Peoples Republic of Massachusetts has started yet another civil uprising.

“Criminals” is this really how the Terrorist need to be treated? I have to admit I have no other good ideas on what should be done with a Terrorist but either way it is the US taxpayer who picks up the tab.

He is a full blooded republican. His interest are in preserving his state's right to the universal health care (that is federally subsidized), as championed by the likes of Kennedy, whose work he will perversely undermine. The ole republican theory of 'damn you for wanting what I got' will be front and center during his legislative work.

They are criminals. The do not represent a state, just a perverse ideology. Try them and lock them up for good. No harm in that and no other REAL option of dealing with terrorists.
 

ravens

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scribe said:
Ill make you a deal. You keep the red states, dems will keep the blue states. If someone don't like it, they know where to move.

It's a nice thought. If we abided by our constitution any longer (which is now regarded as a small and inconvenient problem for many of our pols) we should be able to live that way without tearing the country apart. At least that was the intent, 220+ years ago.

Maybe we can agree that we should abide by our constitution above all else. that could be a basis for common ground.
 
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While recognizing that the election in Massachusetts and the Supreme Court decision take the lead in political news this week, I still think it is interesting that yet another part of the UN Climate Change Report is found to be false causing the authors to again apologize for misleading the UN on the subject - five critical mistakes in one paragraph causes one to wonder how much of the report has any correlation to their data, let along reality.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6994774.ece

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100120/ap_on_sc/sci_un_climate_change
 

ravens

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CentralCaliBike said:
Democracy in action?

Do they even try and hide behind that concept any longer? Statism makes no allowance for dissent, freedom, free trade, property rights or anything else that inhibits their insatiable lust to control people.

All in the (phony) guise of doing it for our own good....
 
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ravens said:
Do they even try and hide behind that concept any longer? Statism makes no allowance for dissent, freedom, free trade, property rights or anything else that inhibits their insatiable lust to control people.

All in the (phony) guise of doing it for our own good....

You mean like the greatest misnomer in American political history, the "Patriot" Act. Again, your sense of irony is a bit off. But, you believe a moron from Alaska is capable of running our country so go figure. Again, you can have that country.

The funniest part is that you and those like you are too dense to know that based on the presidents of the 20th century, Obama is nowhere near the most Socialist in the last 110 years. Then again, it never was about his politics anyway...
 
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Oncearunner8 said:
I have to agree with you about palin. She is a horrible representation for any state. Not sure she represents all Elephants but a large majority of them go out of their way to hear what she is spewing from her pie hole.

Still not sure why someone would describe a peoples protest as Tea Bagging???????? WTF I thought that is the purpose and basic rights of the United States? If not for protest’s then the Vietnam War would have lasted a lot longer than what it did.

Fox News coined the term very early on. However, you are correct in your assessment that I was being derogatory in my usage. From what I witnessed here in Charlotte and in SC, to suggest that a large number were motivated by the color of the president's skin is spot on. That may not be the case where you are, but here, if it walks like a duck...
 
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At minimum, there are many who would like to see the president fail based on the color of his skin. It is the only logical explanation for hysterics regarding his supposed administration's failure, 12 months into his term.
 
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CentralCaliBike said:
While recognizing that the election in Massachusetts and the Supreme Court decision take the lead in political news this week, I still think it is interesting that yet another part of the UN Climate Change Report is found to be false causing the authors to again apologize for misleading the UN on the subject - five critical mistakes in one paragraph causes one to wonder how much of the report has any correlation to their data, let along reality.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6994774.ece

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100120/ap_on_sc/sci_un_climate_change

I will give you this, the recent revelations on climate change have caused me to reassess my position. I still find the movement away from petroleum to be advantageous for other reasons, but it does appear that the wheels of the climate change movement were a bit shakier than I believed.

Now, I would like to hear your take on today's SC decision.
 
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