World Politics

[rhubroma]

Is it even remotely possible that there are crazies on the fringes of both political parties? These photos are real clever and all, but have you guys seen the protests at the WTO meetings? How about the SEIU beatdown of a guy selling flags at a healthcare townhall last summer? Some dude was arrested for threatening to kill Eric Cantor and his entire family.

Regular use of the term 'teabagger' will certainly promote appreciation and understanding.

I don't get the "craziness" in these images, apart from the somewhat distasteful, though indeed humorous, "euthanize," which is something of an ideological provocation, to cause a "scandal," rather than something to be taken literally to the word. For their demands are quite rational, even if their tone is aggressive, though completely warented in these cases because of insufferable intrusions upon our lives by those biggoted who claim to speak with a universal voice and be the sole proprietors of the moral high ground.

Are they "crazy" because they dare to rage against a conservative political and religious ideology that culturally is about a false moralism in the name of a so called God which they believe in, but not everyone, and that they instrumentlally use to claim a universal rightousness, which, in their way of thinking, allows them to expect to be able to decide for me, a non believer, how I am supposed to behave in regards to how I am to face my own end if under the most ghastly, inhuman and incurable of situations?

The religious have always had this distasteful and rather undemocratic habit of claiming moral superiority to decide, or rather lay down the law, for everbody, without any rational and often ethical title especially because they are often racist and xenophobic, to such a claim. Yet their conservative ideology accompanied by their superstitious beliefs, leads them to interfere in the affairs of all citizens lives, irrespective of religious beliefs or ideological positions who think otherwise, for example an aetheist from the left (or right for that matter): shouldn't he be entitled to living under a form of constitutional gaurantees, without the influence of religious beliefs and institutions, that respects his world views on such personal matters, so long as they don't inhibit the free will of others? When at the same time his beliefs and positions in no way prohibits the religious to their beliefs nor forces them to have an abortion, or to be assissted with their own death if the most desperate situations make that the most humane choice, if they don't want to, because their personal sentiments and preachers tell them it is against their God's law? By contrast they, the religious right wing, expect their will to be all abiding.

These folks here above, apart from their no doubt shocking aspects to you, are, in reality, protesting against a religious right wing establishment, and democratic State that is supposed to keep Church and State separated and legislate based on the lay and rationalist principles which Western Civilization has inherited from the Enlightenment revolution, but that doesn't because the conservatives in power have placed men in decision making positions, who allow their religious beliefs to condition the lives of all, the religious and non-religious alike.

By contrast the conservative protesters above are not upholding anything dignified nor rightous whatsoever, given that they protest against a health reform predicated upon ensuring that even the poor or the struggling have a right to getting medical treatment when necessary, which is confired upon them by the State. Their protest is merely about taking such a right away from the less fortunate, which, especially in the richeset nation on the planet, is not only ethiclally unacceptable, but morally disgusting. And these are the same folks, I repeat, who claim property to a moral superiority over those freaks, so called, which is no doubt how you see them simply because form the radical left, who, in reality, are making a positive protest for being given the constitutional right to exercise their individual choice, which is among the most democratic of principles, not binding to naturally anyone else but themselves in most personal matters that no church, any church, should determine or impact upon among those not affiliated with their organizations.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't get the "crazziness" in these images...

I stopped reading after your first comma.

The extreme right has you up in arms but because you empathize with the extreme left the tactics barely worthy of a critical look.

That really says it all, doesn't it?

 

[fatandfast]

If you are a Democrat you should not only accept teabags but you should encourage them. The subdivision of the the GOP into little factions will only help keep them out of office. The more time that Palin spends as a leader of any sub sect of the republican party, the weaker it will make the party.Another 9 people are going to trial in MI for planning to kill police, they are all teabag attendees. Teabaggers calling for another domestic army to uphold their interests is going to propaganda gold in upcoming elections

 

[Hugh Januss]

I stopped reading after your first comma.

The extreme right has you up in arms but because you empathize with the extreme left the tactics barely worthy of a critical look.

That really says it all, doesn't it?

No your first line says it all, you've drunk the kool-aid, and there is no helping you.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

If you are a Democrat you should not only accept teabags but you should encourage them.

No. That's absolutely wrong. It doesn't matter if you're Republican or Democrat. Encouraging hate-filled rhetoric and actions is never acceptable.

 

[rhubroma]

I stopped reading after your first comma.

The extreme right has you up in arms but because you empathize with the extreme left the tactics barely worthy of a critical look.

That really says it all, doesn't it?

No because, in this case, the extreme left is simply right, whereas the extreme right is simply wrong...for all the reasons I mentioned above.

Whether you care to read why, is irrelevant, though that explains much (really says it all, as you have put it)about our cultural and philosophical differences.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Say what you want, but I don't consider these people to be fellow Americans, but rather cut from the same cloth as Osama Bin Laden. Yet the teabaggers seem to accept them as allies in their "patriot" movement.
As an American I find them all to be embarrassing and dangerous.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20100329/ts_csm/291190_1

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Check out the Hate Map. http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/hate-map

See how your state ranks. I got 9 recognized hate groups in mine.

 

[Anonymous]

No your first line says it all, you've drunk the kool-aid, and there is no helping you.

Really? Among other things I've stated I'm not impressed with the tea-party. I've stated a willingness to offer hand-ups to people in my community. I've stated a concern for the direction of this Country regarding the rate of debt accumulation.

The radicals on the right are out of their minds. If you think, for one second, there are no fringe freaks on the left.... then Hugh, you are the one for which there is no help.

 

[Anonymous]

No because, in this case, the extreme left is simply right, whereas the extreme right is simply wrong...for all the reasons I mentioned above.

Whether you care to read why, is irrelevant, though that explains much (really says it all, as you have put it)about our cultural and philosophical differences.

Well, we agree on something. I think it does explain much. I don't appreciate the radicals on either side as I don't believe they accomplish much besides scaring the hell out of ordinary people. The New Black Panthers with their night sticks in front of the voting booths as well as this Christian militia that was just arrested both come to mind.

Your statement of the extreme left being 'right' just shows where you are. My perception is the right in this Country thinks the left is wrong. The left thinks the right is evil. Big difference, no?

 

[Anonymous]

No. That's absolutely wrong. It doesn't matter if you're Republican or Democrat. Encouraging hate-filled rhetoric and actions is never acceptable.

+1. Well stated.

 

[BroDeal]

Check out the Hate Map. http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/hate-map

See how your state ranks. I got 9 recognized hate groups in mine.

The Southern Poverty Law Center has always exaggerated the number of hate groups. They do it to gain press exposure for themselves.

Their list for Colorado includes several Mormon splinter groups who are a threat to no one but their own members; they live in their little communities and do not interact with the people around them. The list also includes "groups" that I doubt exist beyond a couple of guys and a website, or one or two people who got their laminated KKK member cards from an organization halfway across the country and meet to drink and watch football. Then there are the anti-immigrant and Christian groups included...

 

[BroDeal]

The radicals on the right are out of their minds. If you think, for one second, there are no fringe freaks on the left.... then Hugh, you are the one for which there is no help.

The difference is that the mainstream Republican Party has aligned itself with the kooks, thinking it is a way to fire up its base.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

The Southern Poverty Law Center has always exaggerated the number of hate groups. They do it to gain press exposure for themselves.

Their list for Colorado includes several Mormon splinter groups who are a threat to no one but their own members; they live in their little communities and do not interact with the people around them. The list also includes "groups" that I doubt exist beyond a couple of guys and a website, or one or two people who got their laminated KKK member cards from an organization halfway across the country and meet to drink and watch football. Then there are the anti-immigrant and Christian groups included...

The Minnesota list is fairly accurate. I was involved in anti-racist movements as a youth, and if anything it's a very short list for my state. I understand what you're saying though, who doesn't exaggerate or embelish numbers to make a point.

 

[Anonymous]

The difference is that the mainstream Republican Party has aligned itself with the kooks, thinking it is a way to fire up its base.

I dunno. My feeling is the main goal of most of the tea partyers is to form a third party. I'm not sure how that helps Rebubs. And, honestly, after the Bush Admin, what is the mainstream Republican party? That certainly was not a fiscally conservative eight years.

 

[BroDeal]

I dunno. My feeling is the main goal of most of the tea partyers is to form a third party. I'm not sure how that helps Rebubs. And, honestly, after the Bush Admin, what is the mainstream Republican party? That certainly was not a fiscally conservative eight years.

They cannot form a third party. A winner takes all system cannot support more than two.

If they wanted to break away from the Republicans then they would not have paid Palin a $100K to speak, they would not be allying themselves with the likes of Beck and the other voices of the Republican Party, and they would not let Congress critters like Bachmann lead around by their noses.

 

[Hugh Januss]

The difference is that the mainstream Republican Party has aligned itself with the kooks, thinking it is a way to fire up its base.

Exactly!......

 

[Anonymous]

Exactly!......

So only the right aligns with kooks? I guess, to some, Bill Ayers is mainstream thinking.

Bill Ayers. Kook?

On Sept. 11, 2001, the New York Times ran a story about Ayers, quoting him saying, "I don't regret setting bombs. I feel we didn't do enough." Bill Ayers was 56 years old at the time, and Obama was 40 years old.

In a 1995 interview, Ayers candidly described his philosophy:

I'm a radical, leftist, small "c" communist … [laughs]. Maybe I'm the last communist who is willing to admit it. We have always been small "c" communists in the sense that we were never in the [Communist] party and never Stalinists. The ethics of communism still appeal to me. I don't like Lenin as much as the early Marx

Michael Klonsky. Kook?

According Santa Clara Law professor Steve Diamond, "Klonsky was one of the most destructive hard-line Maoists in the [Students for a Democratic Society] in the late '60s who emerged from SDS to form a pro-Chinese sect called the October League that later became the Beijing-recognized Communist Party (Marxist-Leninist). As chairman of the party, Klonsky traveled to Beijing itself in 1977 and, literally, toasted the Chinese Stalinist leadership who, in turn, "hailed the formation of the CP(ML) as 'reflecting the aspirations of the proletariat and working people,' effectively recognizing the group as the all-but-official U.S. Maoist party."

Bill Ayers and Barack Obama funneled $175,000 to Klonsky through the Chicago Annenberg Challenge to fund a radical training group called the Small Schools Workshop.

Jody Evans. Kook?

Evans is an Obama bundler who committed to raise $50,000 for the Obama campaign. She also founded Code Pink, a feminist anti-war group dedicated to protesting the war in Iraq.

Evans is also notorious for making ridiculous and insensitive remarks. For example, during a radio interview with Paul Ibbetson on his "Conscience of Kansas" radio show, Ibbetson tried to explain that the U.S. hadn't done anything to provoke the 9/11 attacks. Evans replied that we were in Saudi Arabia, which she claimed was reason enough for al-Qaida and Osama bin Laden to kill thousands of Americans in terrorist attacks. While Evans said, "I don't think any terrorist attack is justified," she added that we should listen to bin Laden and change our policies because "Sometimes, it would be a good idea to listen to why someone is trying to blow you up."

This is not even mentioning Jeremiah Wright or Trinity, The Woods Fund, The Joyce Foundation, Gamaliel Foundation, Tom Ayers, Bernadine Dohrn, Mona Khalidi, Tony Rezko, Frank Marshall Davis, Alice Palmer, Barbara Ehrenreich... I could go on but I get the feeling it will fall on deaf ears.

 

[fatandfast]

No. That's absolutely wrong. It doesn't matter if you're Republican or Democrat. Encouraging hate-filled rhetoric and actions is never acceptable.

I guess I am just not dumb enough yet to think that everybody who goes to or supports anything"teabag" is full of hate. People should be able to speak their minds,no matter simply they appear. I completely endorse small government as a core value. However I would start to disassemble the war machine rather than the health care monster. I also believe the teabag message of be careful with my tax money. I hope that my money combined with teabag cash can be used for health,education and term limits...maybe some bike paths...maybe even go really old school and start teaching health and home ec so kids understand what a potato is or how to make food that doesn't come in a box.

 

[Oncearunner8]

I don't get the "craziness" in these images, apart from the somewhat distasteful, though indeed humorous, "euthanize," which is something of an ideological provocation, to cause a "scandal," rather than something to be taken literally to the word. For their demands are quite rational, even if their tone is aggressive, though completely warented in these cases because of insufferable intrusions upon our lives by those biggoted who claim to speak with a universal voice and be the sole proprietors of the moral high ground.

Are they "crazy" because they dare to rage against a conservative political and religious ideology that culturally is about a false moralism in the name of a so called God which they believe in, but not everyone, and that they instrumentlally use to claim a universal rightousness, which, in their way of thinking, allows them to expect to be able to decide for me, a non believer, how I am supposed to behave in regards to how I am to face my own end if under the most ghastly, inhuman and incurable of situations?

The religious have always had this distasteful and rather undemocratic habit of claiming moral superiority to decide, or rather lay down the law, for everbody, without any rational and often ethical title especially because they are often racist and xenophobic, to such a claim. Yet their conservative ideology accompanied by their superstitious beliefs, leads them to interfere in the affairs of all citizens lives, irrespective of religious beliefs or ideological positions who think otherwise, for example an aetheist from the left (or right for that matter): shouldn't he be entitled to living under a form of constitutional gaurantees, without the influence of religious beliefs and institutions, that respects his world views on such personal matters, so long as they don't inhibit the free will of others? When at the same time his beliefs and positions in no way prohibits the religious to their beliefs nor forces them to have an abortion, or to be assissted with their own death if the most desperate situations make that the most humane choice, if they don't want to, because their personal sentiments and preachers tell them it is against their God's law? By contrast they, the religious right wing, expect their will to be all abiding.

These folks here above, apart from their no doubt shocking aspects to you, are, in reality, protesting against a religious right wing establishment, and democratic State that is supposed to keep Church and State separated and legislate based on the lay and rationalist principles which Western Civilization has inherited from the Enlightenment revolution, but that doesn't because the conservatives in power have placed men in decision making positions, who allow their religious beliefs to condition the lives of all, the religious and non-religious alike.

By contrast the conservative protesters above are not upholding anything dignified nor rightous whatsoever, given that they protest against a health reform predicated upon ensuring that even the poor or the struggling have a right to getting medical treatment when necessary, which is confired upon them by the State. Their protest is merely about taking such a right away from the less fortunate, which, especially in the richeset nation on the planet, is not only ethiclally unacceptable, but morally disgusting. And these are the same folks, I repeat, who claim property to a moral superiority over those freaks, so called, which is no doubt how you see them simply because form the radical left, who, in reality, are making a positive protest for being given the constitutional right to exercise their individual choice, which is among the most democratic of principles, not binding to naturally anyone else but themselves in most personal matters that no church, any church, should determine or impact upon among those not affiliated with their organizations.

I have never experienced the religious right wing you speak about. I have run into a fair amount of stupid hippy lettuce bong suckers who need to have a shoe kicked far inside the colon.

Your not able to see or understand that crazy idiots are on both sides of the debate?

 

[rhubroma]

Well, we agree on something. I think it does explain much. I don't appreciate the radicals on either side as I don't believe they accomplish much besides scaring the hell out of ordinary people. The New Black Panthers with their night sticks in front of the voting booths as well as this Christian militia that was just arrested both come to mind.

Your statement of the extreme left being 'right' just shows where you are. My perception is the right in this Country thinks the left is wrong. The left thinks the right is evil. Big difference, no?

Radicals become radicals for various reasons. The right does so by presupposing a high moral ground to conserve its positions, the left by presupposing a right to rebell (against those who presuppose owning the high moral ground).

Yet in this particular case, in terms of how religious belief in America interferes with serious personal issues such as euthanasia and abortion, the "hate" among the left is more than justified than the "hate" among the right. Because, as far as I remember, I don't ever recal any pro-choice advocates shooting those among the anti-abortionist brigade, whereas we have seen more than one instance when a radical anti-abortionsist has gone and shot up an abortion clinic. Of course with the alibi of a Christian, so-called, ethic to "defend." Big difference, wouldn't you say? Though where is the real "hate" coming from? From a few mohawk punks with provocative signs, or form some riffle owning biggots with an "agenda" to uphold with whatever force is necessary?

In the same vein, I don't want anyone because of their religious beliefs, determining whether or not if I am teminally ill (and perhaps in dire pain) or in a vegetal state without prospect of recovery, to dictate whether or not I can with assistance end my own existance with all that remains of my personal dignity.

Your position is thus merely propagandistic and without substance, and is neither objective in its considerations nor rational in its conclusions. Something which is usual from what I have gathered form your posts.

 

[Oncearunner8]

No because, in this case, the extreme left is simply right, whereas the extreme right is simply wrong...for all the reasons I mentioned above.

Whether you care to read why, is irrelevant, though that explains much (really says it all, as you have put it)about our cultural and philosophical differences.

without bringing up tea baggers etc. how about you list what the extreme left is simpy right about? Just asking. Personally I think your more full of **** than a septic tank but that is just my opinion.

 

[Oncearunner8]

They cannot form a third party. A winner takes all system cannot support more than two.

If they wanted to break away from the Republicans then they would not have paid Palin a $100K to speak, they would not be allying themselves with the likes of Beck and the other voices of the Republican Party, and they would not let Congress critters like Bachmann lead around by their noses.

Please do not mention Palin anymore. It makes my eye’s and ear’s bleed when I read or hear anything about or by that person.

Beck is probably locked himself in a bunker somewhere and is crying himself to sleep. Dude needs to calm down and relax.

 

[rhubroma]

I have never experienced the religious right wing you speak about. I have run into a fair amount of stupid hippy lettuce bong suckers who need to have a shoe kicked far inside the colon.

Your not able to see or understand that crazy idiots are on both sides of the debate?

Read my post above, and I don't find the need to kick a "shoe far inside the colon" of anyone. Which is the difference between me in regards to those who disagree with my positions, and the facists.

 

[Oncearunner8]

Read my post above, and I don't find the need to kick a "shoe far inside the colon" of anyone. Which is the difference between me in regards to those who disagree with my positions, and the facists.

Some of your political opinions I most likely agree with. Hard to tell because I think your one of those on the Far Left who keep trying to kick me out of the party.