World Politics

[red_flanders]

Don't feed the right wing frenzy, Glenn. The four that have been identified so far are native born French citizens. See my post above on the passport issue. 'Finding' a Syrian passport doesn't mean squat.

I could care less about the passport. What this is and is not seems to be clear but if you guys want to believe this was some regular French Citizens then flame away.

It's being reported that 6 of them had spent time in Syria at some point, and at least one was a Syrian. They've gone well past the initial group and are at this point looking for the planners.

Surely there isn't any doubt about who did this, and where this was planned? They're now specifically threatening Washington D.C.

 

[blackcat]

Surely there isn't any doubt about who did this, and where this was planned? They're now specifically threatening Washington D.C.

you reckon?

your credulity knows no bounds.

this Terror symbiosis works for both the murderers, and the hometown domestic government and security who live off a staple diet of bread and fear.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

I doubt that happened. Probably just a planted story by the media and President Obama along with the CIA, DEA, DHS, IRS, TAC, JOC, TAD, MI6, SAS, SEAL, MARSOC, JASOC, ISIS, AJZ. Just to name a few.

Glenn, I can't tell if you are wishing to be sarcastic or serious.

my first thought would be, you are being sardonic, and taking the pi$$

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Don't feed the right wing frenzy, Glenn. The four that have been identified so far are native born French citizens. See my post above on the passport issue. 'Finding' a Syrian passport doesn't mean squat.

I could care less about the passport. What this is and is not seems to be clear but if you guys want to believe this was some regular French Citizens then flame away.

It's being reported that 6 of them had spent time in Syria at some point, and at least one was a Syrian. They've gone well past the initial group and are at this point looking for the planners.

Surely there isn't any doubt about who did this, and where this was planned? They're now specifically threatening Washington D.C.

Which will probably happen.
I'm sure the radical Baptist will be celebrating on social media about this come the time. If only we could have gotten them more jobs and not left them out of all the reindeer games.

 

[red_flanders]

Surely there isn't any doubt about who did this, and where this was planned? They're now specifically threatening Washington D.C.

you reckon?

your credulity knows no bounds.

this Terror symbiosis works for both the murderers, and the hometown domestic government and security who live off a staple diet of bread and fear.

Since ISIS is claiming responsibility and threatening DC, no, I don't think there is any confusion about who did this.

Do you? Should I doubt it? Should I be...incredulous...about this?

Regarding what the rest of your comments seem to imply, I'll not wade into those waters until you make your points more clear.

There seemed to be some doubt above about the origin of the terrorists. I don't think that's in doubt, and that is the extent of my comments. If you want to get into a discussion with me about the security state you'll simply need to be more specific and less cryptic for any reasonable response.

 

[Amsterhammer]

Don't feed the right wing frenzy, Glenn. The four that have been identified so far are native born French citizens. See my post above on the passport issue. 'Finding' a Syrian passport doesn't mean squat.

As for the stadium suicide bombers, what I have heard is that the first one blew himself up after he was stopped from entering by a Muslim security guard. I have heard nothing about the other two - maybe they triggered theirs when they heard the first blast? As I recall from the audio from inside the stadium, the three blasts went off pretty much one after another. All speculation still.

Ok then............

I could care less about the passport. What this is and is not seems to be clear but if you guys want to believe this was some regular French Citizens then flame away.

Or maybe they were some Radical Methodist who felt betrayed by the poor treatment and lack of jobs?

I think you're being deliberately obtuse. I'll try and make it real simple.

Neither I, nor anyone else, has suggested that the terrorists were not 'Islamic'. Many Muricans conflate refugees with immigrants with terrorists with Islam. The MSM hype from moment one was - 'oh the horror, they're coming in with the refugee stream'.

My point, in emphasizing the actual facts, is to show that since at least four were native born French Muslims, they had no need to 'sneak in among the refugees'. It seems that one may have done so, but that supposition only exists because of that passport, which may be fake, or real, or disinformation. We don't know yet.

Prosecutors now believe that the 'mastermind' behind the plot is a Belgian, who is believed to be in Syria. It is almost certain that the terrorists all received training in Syria. The four French citizens weren't on a watch list, so they could travel 'normally', as they pleased.

Probably something well past 99% of the refugees coming out of Syria are legitimate refugees from the worst imaginable horrors. They all hate the people who inspire the bombers as much as we do. We can't treat them all like sh!t just because a few crazies with whom they happen to share a religion, do insane sh!t.

 

[Amsterhammer]

Re: Re:

Following on from Obama and Putin's face to face talks in Turkey, there may be a serious possibility of joint, coordinated, US-Russian air strikes within a week or so.

Hollande to meet with Obama and Putin to discuss joint, concerted anti-Daesh action.

The US finally destroyed one of the oil convoys that have been earning them millions every day.

reactive

domestic political gambit

I dont know what their policy is, but I am being reactive to their reactive policy gambit, and I think they are doing action to shore/sure up their domestic political constituency, with/without looming elections

Disagree. Neither Obama nor Putin need to shore up their home support. Putin apparently walks on water as far as most Russians are concerned, he can do whatever he wants with impunity. Obama has no more elections to face, and in that wonderful American phrase, 'he has no more f**s to give'.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Following on from Obama and Putin's face to face talks in Turkey, there may be a serious possibility of joint, coordinated, US-Russian air strikes within a week or so.

Hollande to meet with Obama and Putin to discuss joint, concerted anti-Daesh action.

The US finally destroyed one of the oil convoys that have been earning them millions every day.

reactive

domestic political gambit

I dont know what their policy is, but I am being reactive to their reactive policy gambit, and I think they are doing action to shore/sure up their domestic political constituency, with/without looming elections

Disagree. Neither Obama nor Putin need to shore up their home support. Putin apparently walks on water as far as most Russians are concerned, he can do whatever he wants with impunity. Obama has no more elections to face, and in that wonderful American phrase, 'he has no more f**s to give'.

I put the election qualifier in already you goose.

and yes, they do indeed still have to manage their constituencies.

i) BO still has to pass legislation thru House and Senate.
ii) he still has to manage for his legacy and his presidential library*

*using presidential library really as metaphor for legacy

 

[Amsterhammer]

Re:

Andrew Bacevich is one of few American domestic commentators I can put my worth in

Amy Goodman always asks him about his WestPoint son who died in Iraq (coulda been Afghanistan...) and he always politely denies, he has been in the International Strategy dep't at Boston U, they should get him at Johns Hopkins in Washington, he is 'da bomb[sic]
http://www.democracynow.org/2015/11/2/andrew_bacevich_ongoing_wars_in_iraq

Agree completely. Perhaps you missed his excellent piece posted a number of pages back?

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2015/11/14/paris-attacks-andrew-bacevich-war-west-cannot-win/UVlV0AsL8ddnE8L5gJaTXO/story.html

 

[frenchfry]

Re: Re:

Following on from Obama and Putin's face to face talks in Turkey, there may be a serious possibility of joint, coordinated, US-Russian air strikes within a week or so.

Hollande to meet with Obama and Putin to discuss joint, concerted anti-Daesh action.

The US finally destroyed one of the oil convoys that have been earning them millions every day.

reactive

domestic political gambit

I dont know what their policy is, but I am being reactive to their reactive policy gambit, and I think they are doing action to shore/sure up their domestic political constituency, with/without looming elections

bingo!

Hollande is back scraping the bottom in the polls with regional elections coming up and positioning for presidentials becoming difficult for him. He convened the combined legislature and senate at Versailles, made the expected "look at me, the great leader" speech, proposed changes to the constitution and sang the Marseillaise. I won't go so far as to say he and his overpaid mignons are happy the attacks happened, but you can be sure they will milk this for all they can and for as long as they can just like they did after the Charlie Hebdo attacks.

 

[Amsterhammer]

I'm not sure what your angle is, Red, but I feel you're edging a little too quickly towards panic mode. I commend this excellent Krugman op-ed to all.

Take, for example, Jeb Bush’s declaration that “this is an organized attempt to destroy Western civilization.” No, it isn’t. It’s an organized attempt to sow panic, which isn’t at all the same thing. And remarks like that, which blur that distinction and make terrorists seem more powerful than they are, just help the jihadists’ cause.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/16/opinion/fearing-fear-itself.html?ref=opinion&_r=1

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I think you're being deliberately obtuse. I'll try and make it real simple.

Neither I, nor anyone else, has suggested that the terrorists were not 'Islamic'. Many Muricans conflate refugees with immigrants with terrorists with Islam. The MSM hype from moment one was - 'oh the horror, they're coming in with the refugee stream'.

My point, in emphasizing the actual facts, is to show that since at least four were native born French Muslims, they had no need to 'sneak in among the refugees'. It seems that one may have done so, but that supposition only exists because of that passport, which may be fake, or real, or disinformation. We don't know yet.

Prosecutors now believe that the 'mastermind' behind the plot is a Belgian, who is believed to be in Syria. It is almost certain that the terrorists all received training in Syria. The four French citizens weren't on a watch list, so they could travel 'normally', as they pleased.

Probably something well past 99% of the refugees coming out of Syria are legitimate refugees from the worst imaginable horrors. They all hate the people who inspire the bombers as much as we do. We can't treat them all like sh!t just because a few crazies with whom they happen to share a religion, do insane sh!t.

Well I thought that was what I was saying until you said I was feeding the frenzy. I do not think that my posts were doing that.
Like I said before I'm not really interested in the passport story. I also do not buy into the fact that all the Syrian's fleeing there home are Radical Terrorist.
I think we are on the same page with this. Maybe not.
Those Radical Muzelims were probably all from France via Syrian blood / homeland. We will probably find out that they have been in Syria fighting Assad and all the other Muslims who don't believe in humping goats, raping children and many other lovely things. Just a hunch.

Then again it could all be a plot by the KGB, SS, ROTC, SSD, NIS, TOKKO, JRA, NSA, CHI. I heard they were all getting together to plant a false flag in France to hide the real mission of the CIA to build a pipeline down in Antarctica. There is best place to refuel our new war birds for their outer space missions.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Re:

I'm not sure what your angle is, Red, but I feel you're edging a little too quickly towards panic mode. I commend this excellent Krugman op-ed to all.

Take, for example, Jeb Bush’s declaration that “this is an organized attempt to destroy Western civilization.” No, it isn’t. It’s an organized attempt to sow panic, which isn’t at all the same thing. And remarks like that, which blur that distinction and make terrorists seem more powerful than they are, just help the jihadists’ cause.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/16/opinion/fearing-fear-itself.html?ref=opinion&_r=1

Don't go hyperventilating about a politician that stand NO chance in hell to get elected. Just because he makes a fool of himself don't mean everyone is believing that crap.

But please don't let me get into the way of a good bash the republican's moment.

 

[blackcat]

Those Radical Muzelims were probably all from France via Syrian blood / homeland. We will probably find out that they have been in Syria fighting Assad and all the other Muslims who don't believe in humping goats, raping children and many other lovely things. Just a hunch.

mate, you are welcome to point out anti-semitism where it exists, but what about a mirror for hypocrisy and islamophobia. anyone with half a brain would appreciate that islamophobia is a significant pulse thru the arteries in america

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKD3CnPJNOE

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Those Radical Muzelims were probably all from France via Syrian blood / homeland. We will probably find out that they have been in Syria fighting Assad and all the other Muslims who don't believe in humping goats, raping children and many other lovely things. Just a hunch.

mate, you are welcome to point out anti-semitism where it exists, but what about a mirror for hypocrisy and islamophobia. anyone with half a brain would appreciate that islamophobia is a significant pulse thru the arteries in america

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKD3CnPJNOE

Not sure where the anti-Semitism issue has come up. Why would you bring something up like that?

Islamophobia? BHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH nah it never happens. What never happens? Radical Islam never happens of course. And hmmm uhhh those nice guys in ISIS or ISIL what is it they do again?

PROPAGADA video no doubt. We in the west have taken a "few images" and made them out to be the bad guys. LMAO.

 

[blackcat]

Those Radical Muzelims were probably all from France via Syrian blood / homeland. We will probably find out that they have been in Syria fighting Assad and all the other Muslims who don't believe in humping goats, raping children and many other lovely things. Just a hunch.

mate, you are welcome to point out anti-semitism where it exists, but what about a mirror for hypocrisy and islamophobia. anyone with half a brain would appreciate that islamophobia is a significant pulse thru the arteries in america

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKD3CnPJNOE

Not sure where the anti-Semitism issue has come up.

Islamophobia? BHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH nah man it never happens. What never happens? Radical Islam never happens of course. And hmmm uhhh those nice guys in ISIS or ISIL what is it they do again?

HEW business research council

 

[red_flanders]

Re:

I'm not sure what your angle is, Red, but I feel you're edging a little too quickly towards panic mode. I commend this excellent Krugman op-ed to all.

Take, for example, Jeb Bush’s declaration that “this is an organized attempt to destroy Western civilization.” No, it isn’t. It’s an organized attempt to sow panic, which isn’t at all the same thing. And remarks like that, which blur that distinction and make terrorists seem more powerful than they are, just help the jihadists’ cause.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/16/opinion/fearing-fear-itself.html?ref=opinion&_r=1

Not sure I get the panic comment. Simply trying to clarify what seemed like a discussion heading for some incorrect conclusions.

Neither I, nor anyone else, has suggested that the terrorists were not 'Islamic'. Many Muricans conflate refugees with immigrants with terrorists with Islam. The MSM hype from moment one was - 'oh the horror, they're coming in with the refugee stream'.

It would appear at this point that it's quite likely they are. They've been claiming they've been doing this since January at least. I don't see what evidence there is not to believe it, and we should be very careful moving forward about how we bring in refugees.

My point, in emphasizing the actual facts, is to show that since at least four were native born French Muslims, they had no need to 'sneak in among the refugees'. It seems that one may have done so, but that supposition only exists because of that passport, which may be fake, or real, or disinformation. We don't know yet.

Prosecutors now believe that the 'mastermind' behind the plot is a Belgian, who is believed to be in Syria. It is almost certain that the terrorists all received training in Syria. The four French citizens weren't on a watch list, so they could travel 'normally', as they pleased.

Probably something well past 99% of the refugees coming out of Syria are legitimate refugees from the worst imaginable horrors. They all hate the people who inspire the bombers as much as we do. We can't treat them all like sh!t just because a few crazies with whom they happen to share a religion, do insane sh!t.

I agree in large part with what you're saying and it echoes in more detail what I've said. Not sure where the notion of panic comes in for you.

We'd be idiotic not to be very careful about how we handle the migrant crisis moving forward. It is not clear to me at this time we have a way to screen out everyone. Until we do, we'd better have a solid plan for how we process anyone coming into the US. I haven't heard it yet.

 

[Irondan]

Those Radical Muzelims were probably all from France via Syrian blood / homeland. We will probably find out that they have been in Syria fighting Assad and all the other Muslims who don't believe in humping goats, raping children and many other lovely things. Just a hunch.

mate, you are welcome to point out anti-semitism where it exists, but what about a mirror for hypocrisy and islamophobia. anyone with half a brain would appreciate that islamophobia is a significant pulse thru the arteries in america

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKD3CnPJNOE

Not sure where the anti-Semitism issue has come up. Why would you bring something up like that?

Islamophobia? BHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH nah it never happens. What never happens? Radical Islam never happens of course. And hmmm uhhh those nice guys in ISIS or ISIL what is it they do again?

PROPAGADA video no doubt. We in the west have taken a "few images" and made them out to be the bad guys. LMAO.

I agree with Glenn, where did the antisemitism come from?

I don't see where you got that from Glenn's comments...

 

[blutto]

....ran across the following just now...helps one understand why the attacks were directed at France...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"France is a prime target because of its extensive and deepening military interventions in the Muslim world. Some 10,000 French soldiers or airmen and large numbers of intelligence operatives are involved in Syria, Iraq, the Gulf, Libya, Chad, Mali and Ivory Coast. France props up the authoritarian rulers of Algeria and Morocco

France is playing a central role in its former colonies, Syria and Lebanon. Paris appears to have long-range plans for expanding its influence in the Levant, including installing regimes attuned to French policies.

French warplanes are bombing Syria and this writer believes French special forces have been in combat in Syria, as they were in Libya when the western powers combined to overthrow the Khadaffi government.

In short, France has made many enemies for itself across the Mideast. It appears only a matter of time before France’s partners in Mideast intervention, the United States and Britain, become new targets of jihadist violence."

....from... http://ericmargolis.com/

...and this bit of irony...

https://alethonews.wordpress.com/2015/11/16/france-funded-syrian-rebels-aka-radical-isis-terrorists-to-overthrow-assad/

Cheers

 

[Amsterhammer]

From the keyboard of the always worthwhile Juan Cole. Nice pie chart in the article.

I don’t figure that Muslims killed more than a 2 million people or so in political violence in the entire twentieth century, and that mainly in the Iran-Iraq War 1980-1988 and the Soviet and post-Soviet wars in Afghanistan, for which Europeans bear some blame (the secular nationalist Young Turks also committed genocide against the Armenians during an invasion of eastern Anatolia by Russia).

Compare that to the Christian European tally of, oh, lets say 100 million (16 million in WW I, 60 million in WW II– though some of those were attributable to Buddhists in Asia– and millions more in colonial wars.)

http://www.juancole.com/2015/11/terrorism-the-other-religions.html?fb_ref=Default

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Re:

From the keyboard of the always worthwhile Juan Cole. Nice pie chart in the article.

I don’t figure that Muslims killed more than a 2 million people or so in political violence in the entire twentieth century, and that mainly in the Iran-Iraq War 1980-1988 and the Soviet and post-Soviet wars in Afghanistan, for which Europeans bear some blame (the secular nationalist Young Turks also committed genocide against the Armenians during an invasion of eastern Anatolia by Russia).

Compare that to the Christian European tally of, oh, lets say 100 million (16 million in WW I, 60 million in WW II– though some of those were attributable to Buddhists in Asia– and millions more in colonial wars.)

http://www.juancole.com/2015/11/terrorism-the-other-religions.html?fb_ref=Default

Well yeah killing the Christians is much more fun. Lets just say that modern day is a different story but hey you keep living the dream over in Amsterdam and we will keep living it in Merikah.

Please God punish the Christians for their misdeeds and camp out in stupid.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

From the keyboard of the always worthwhile Juan Cole. Nice pie chart in the article.

I don’t figure that Muslims killed more than a 2 million people or so in political violence in the entire twentieth century, and that mainly in the Iran-Iraq War 1980-1988 and the Soviet and post-Soviet wars in Afghanistan, for which Europeans bear some blame (the secular nationalist Young Turks also committed genocide against the Armenians during an invasion of eastern Anatolia by Russia).

Compare that to the Christian European tally of, oh, lets say 100 million (16 million in WW I, 60 million in WW II– though some of those were attributable to Buddhists in Asia– and millions more in colonial wars.)

http://www.juancole.com/2015/11/terrorism-the-other-religions.html?fb_ref=Default

Well yeah killing the Christians is much more fun. Lets just say that modern day is a different story but hey you keep living the dream over in Amsterdam and we will keep living it in Merikah.

Please God punish the Christians for their misdeeds and camp out in stupid.

Glenn, if you dissected the article, he was not making an apologia for muslims, nor was he pointing the finger at americans.

I am sure Juan Cole would say if technology was available to the Ottoman Empire they could have wreaked an equivalent havoc.

He is just putting the islamophobia into the spotlight

 

[python]

just in...it is now official: the russian airliner was brought down by a bomb.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/11/russia-plane-sinai-brought-bomb-151117081851335.html

so, in the space of several weeks, we have 3 major players in the syrian conflict - turkey, russia and france - suffer horrible terror acts all of which according to both the victims and perps were accomplished by isil.

but of course, we are told, 'assad must go first'.

just like 'saddam had to go' and then 'qaddafi had to go' to see the tyrants formally monolithic fiefdoms disintegrate into militant 'autonomies', including the isil, that fight each other but really are the proxies of the various regional and not only players...

of course, the slaughtered civilians aren't guilty of that

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

just in...it is now official: the russian airliner was brought down by a bomb.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/11/russia-plane-sinai-brought-bomb-151117081851335.html

so, in the space of several weeks, we have 3 major players in the syrian conflict - turkey, russia and france - suffer horrible terror acts all of which according to both the victims and perps were accomplished by isil.

but of course, we are told, 'assad must go first'.

just like 'saddam had to go' and then 'qaddafi had to go' to see the tyrants formally monolithic fiefdoms disintegrate into militant 'autonomies', including the isil, that fight each other but really are the proxies of the various regional and not only players...

of course, the slaughtered civilians aren't guilty of that

Originally they said they shot the plane down. Maybe misquoted. No surprise here, Russia was always going to be in the firing line for getting involved in Syria.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re:

just in...it is now official: the russian airliner was brought down by a bomb.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/11/russia-plane-sinai-brought-bomb-151117081851335.html

so, in the space of several weeks, we have 3 major players in the syrian conflict - turkey, russia and france - suffer horrible terror acts all of which according to both the victims and perps were accomplished by isil.

but of course, we are told, 'assad must go first'.

just like 'saddam had to go' and then 'qaddafi had to go' to see the tyrants formally monolithic fiefdoms disintegrate into militant 'autonomies', including the isil, that fight each other but really are the proxies of the various regional and not only players...

of course, the slaughtered civilians aren't guilty of that

I predict Turkey, France and Russia will step up. First with an expanded air campaign, then perhaps their boots on the ground. In spite of the saber rattlings from the inconsequential GOP presidential field, the people in the area(Saudi Arabia, Jordan, UAE, others) had better put boots there way before the USA.

Once defeated, as they melt into the villages, we'll see what happens when Assad goes, and another vacuum created there. Russia/Iran occupying force? Becomes a 'state', protectorate of Iran? That woud be my guess..And gee..some stability in the region.