World Politics

[ScienceIsCool]

Re:

I guess I struck a nerve. The data as we say in the biz speaks for itself. Funny that every group that you disagree with is somehow designated partisan or a loser blogger. 'Described by others....' sounds a lot like 'Many people say...' Isn't that how your hero Trump puts it? You don't even put the source of your post. Very sloppy.... Tsk tsk....

Admit it, your posts about ISIS and war is hell were beyond pathetic. Destroying Aleppo and its citizens to get rid of ISIS when that is not their main stronghold is definitely putting on the pro- Russia blinders, or maybe kneepads would be a more apt description.

Al-Nusra, Al Qaeda, ISIL, Fatah Halab, YPG, FSA, YPJ, Syrian Arab Coalition, Syriac Military, Ba'ath Brigades.

Which of these groups are your Syrian "rebels" that formed a popular uprising against Assad's government? Which are foreigners screwing around in Syria? Yes, this is a proxy war. It is not a civil war. So when you get all these groups working together and coordinating tactics, logistics, and materiel I think it is right that you can treat them as a single entity. Especially if they refuse to disassociate themselves into "good rebels" and "bad terrorists".

The fact is, there really was a popular movement in Syria aimed at lifting the state of emergency (Damascus Spring) and improving civil rights (Arab Spring). This movement was suppressed by Assad though not in a particularly harsh way. Things changed in 2011 when a grand total of 7 Syrian officers left the military and formed an armed opposition group (FSA). Initially this group was run out of Turkey and had the stated goal of using armed force to depose Assad. As you can imagine things went hot...

From there the whole thing was co-opted by foreign powers (hello, NATO and US) with one of the goals to Balkanize Syria. Syria is on Russia's tender underbelly. Islamic nutjobs in Syria today means they'll be in Chechnya tomorrow. I really don't blame Russia (who is in Syria at the request of the legitimate government) for calling BS and trying to shut things down. A terrorist is a terrorist, no matter which label from above you want to stick on them. Russia is in the business of bombing terrorists. Good luck to those "moderate rebels".

John Swanson

 

[blutto]

Re: Re:

I guess I struck a nerve. The data as we say in the biz speaks for itself. Funny that every group that you disagree with is somehow designated partisan or a loser blogger. 'Described by others....' sounds a lot like 'Many people say...' Isn't that how your hero Trump puts it? You don't even put the source of your post. Very sloppy.... Tsk tsk....

Admit it, your posts about ISIS and war is hell were beyond pathetic. Destroying Aleppo and its citizens to get rid of ISIS when that is not their main stronghold is definitely putting on the pro- Russia blinders, or maybe kneepads would be a more apt description.

Al-Nusra, Al Qaeda, ISIL, Fatah Halab, YPG, FSA, YPJ, Syrian Arab Coalition, Syriac Military, Ba'ath Brigades.

Which of these groups are your Syrian "rebels" that formed a popular uprising against Assad's government? Which are foreigners screwing around in Syria? Yes, this is a proxy war. It is not a civil war. So when you get all these groups working together and coordinating tactics, logistics, and materiel I think it is right that you can treat them as a single entity. Especially if they refuse to disassociate themselves into "good rebels" and "bad terrorists".

The fact is, there really was a popular movement in Syria aimed at lifting the state of emergency (Damascus Spring) and improving civil rights (Arab Spring). This movement was suppressed by Assad though not in a particularly harsh way. Things changed in 2011 when a grand total of 7 Syrian officers left the military and formed an armed opposition group (FSA). Initially this group was run out of Turkey and had the stated goal of using armed force to depose Assad. As you can imagine things went hot...

From there the whole thing was co-opted by foreign powers (hello, NATO and US) with one of the goals to Balkanize Syria. Syria is on Russia's tender underbelly. Islamic nutjobs in Syria today means they'll be in Chechnya tomorrow. I really don't blame Russia (who is in Syria at the request of the legitimate government) for calling BS and trying to shut things down. A terrorist is a terrorist, no matter which label from above you want to stick on them. Russia is in the business of bombing terrorists. Good luck to those "moderate rebels".

John Swanson

....now on top of the reasonable you pile on with realistic....what are we going to do with you?.... ....

Cheers

 

[djpbaltimore]

Re: Re:

Al-Nusra, Al Qaeda, ISIL, Fatah Halab, YPG, FSA, YPJ, Syrian Arab Coalition, Syriac Military, Ba'ath Brigades.

Which of these groups are your Syrian "rebels" that formed a popular uprising against Assad's government? Which are foreigners screwing around in Syria? Yes, this is a proxy war. It is not a civil war. So when you get all these groups working together and coordinating tactics, logistics, and materiel I think it is right that you can treat them as a single entity. Especially if they refuse to disassociate themselves into "good rebels" and "bad terrorists".

The fact is, there really was a popular movement in Syria aimed at lifting the state of emergency (Damascus Spring) and improving civil rights (Arab Spring). This movement was suppressed by Assad though not in a particularly harsh way. Things changed in 2011 when a grand total of 7 Syrian officers left the military and formed an armed opposition group (FSA). Initially this group was run out of Turkey and had the stated goal of using armed force to depose Assad. As you can imagine things went hot...

From there the whole thing was co-opted by foreign powers (hello, NATO and US) with one of the goals to Balkanize Syria. Syria is on Russia's tender underbelly. Islamic nutjobs in Syria today means they'll be in Chechnya tomorrow. I really don't blame Russia (who is in Syria at the request of the legitimate government) for calling BS and trying to shut things down. A terrorist is a terrorist, no matter which label from above you want to stick on them. Russia is in the business of bombing terrorists. Good luck to those "moderate rebels".

John Swanson

But what about the civilians in the middle?

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re: Re:

I guess I struck a nerve. The data as we say in the biz speaks for itself. Funny that every group that you disagree with is somehow designated partisan or a loser blogger. 'Described by others....' sounds a lot like 'Many people say...' Isn't that how your hero Trump puts it? You don't even put the source of your post. Very sloppy.... Tsk tsk....

Admit it, your posts about ISIS and war is hell were beyond pathetic. Destroying Aleppo and its citizens to get rid of ISIS when that is not their main stronghold is definitely putting on the pro- Russia blinders, or maybe kneepads would be a more apt description.

Al-Nusra, Al Qaeda, ISIL, Fatah Halab, YPG, FSA, YPJ, Syrian Arab Coalition, Syriac Military, Ba'ath Brigades.

Which of these groups are your Syrian "rebels" that formed a popular uprising against Assad's government? Which are foreigners screwing around in Syria? Yes, this is a proxy war. It is not a civil war. So when you get all these groups working together and coordinating tactics, logistics, and materiel I think it is right that you can treat them as a single entity. Especially if they refuse to disassociate themselves into "good rebels" and "bad terrorists".

The fact is, there really was a popular movement in Syria aimed at lifting the state of emergency (Damascus Spring) and improving civil rights (Arab Spring). This movement was suppressed by Assad though not in a particularly harsh way. Things changed in 2011 when a grand total of 7 Syrian officers left the military and formed an armed opposition group (FSA). Initially this group was run out of Turkey and had the stated goal of using armed force to depose Assad. As you can imagine things went hot...

From there the whole thing was co-opted by foreign powers (hello, NATO and US) with one of the goals to Balkanize Syria. Syria is on Russia's tender underbelly. Islamic nutjobs in Syria today means they'll be in Chechnya tomorrow. I really don't blame Russia (who is in Syria at the request of the legitimate government) for calling BS and trying to shut things down. A terrorist is a terrorist, no matter which label from above you want to stick on them. Russia is in the business of bombing terrorists. Good luck to those "moderate rebels".

John Swanson

....now on top of the reasonable you pile on with realistic....what are we going to do with you?.... ....

Cheers

Actually, this is one of the scariest things that I can remember. Instead of drawing down, the US/NATO is doubling down. That puts Russia, Syria, and Iran on one side and the US/NATO on the other side of a hot war. This is turning from a proxy war (which can be quietly de-escalated and defused) into a direct conflict, where de-escalation is nearly impossible.

Can you imagine what happens if both sides declare a "no-fly zone" and Russia downs an F-22? The only scenario I can imagine is a direct retaliation against Russian forces. From there the number of escalation paths is terrifying. The only good news is that the fighting would be done away from US and Russian borders, which would serve to "contain" the level of escalation (i.e., no need to use tactical nukes if your homeland isn't being invaded).

John Swanson

 

[blutto]

....we might as well throw this on the pile of business as usual ( and this meant both figuratively and literally )...

On the heels of this attack comes a blistering report by Reuters showing, through Freedom of Information Act documents, that the Obama administration went ahead with a $1.3 billion arms sale to Saudi Arabia last year despite warnings from US officials that the United States could be implicated in war crimes for supporting a Saudi-led air campaign in Yemen that has killed thousands of civilians.

What has been the US and UK governments’ response to the funeral bombing? The British government announced UK arms sales to the Saudis is “under careful and continual review”, while the Obama administration issued a statement that US support for Saudis is not a “blank check” and that the US was “prepared to adjust our support so as to better align with US principles, values and interests.”

The “principles, values and interests” of the Western powers, however, have been to buy cheap Saudi oil and make record profits by selling massive quantities of weapons to one of the most repressive countries in the world.

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/medea-benjamin/69314/do-western-nations-care-about-yemeni-lives-or-saudi-blood-money

....war crimes?...those are for the little or defeated nations...

...Aleppo?....I'll raise you a funeral bombing response...

...and money?....money talks and principles walks....

Cheers

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re: Re:

Al-Nusra, Al Qaeda, ISIL, Fatah Halab, YPG, FSA, YPJ, Syrian Arab Coalition, Syriac Military, Ba'ath Brigades.

Which of these groups are your Syrian "rebels" that formed a popular uprising against Assad's government? Which are foreigners screwing around in Syria? Yes, this is a proxy war. It is not a civil war. So when you get all these groups working together and coordinating tactics, logistics, and materiel I think it is right that you can treat them as a single entity. Especially if they refuse to disassociate themselves into "good rebels" and "bad terrorists".

The fact is, there really was a popular movement in Syria aimed at lifting the state of emergency (Damascus Spring) and improving civil rights (Arab Spring). This movement was suppressed by Assad though not in a particularly harsh way. Things changed in 2011 when a grand total of 7 Syrian officers left the military and formed an armed opposition group (FSA). Initially this group was run out of Turkey and had the stated goal of using armed force to depose Assad. As you can imagine things went hot...

From there the whole thing was co-opted by foreign powers (hello, NATO and US) with one of the goals to Balkanize Syria. Syria is on Russia's tender underbelly. Islamic nutjobs in Syria today means they'll be in Chechnya tomorrow. I really don't blame Russia (who is in Syria at the request of the legitimate government) for calling BS and trying to shut things down. A terrorist is a terrorist, no matter which label from above you want to stick on them. Russia is in the business of bombing terrorists. Good luck to those "moderate rebels".

John Swanson

But what about the civilians in the middle?

Yup. That is the tragedy of every war. Civilians get hurt the most. One preference would be to end the conflict as soon as possible. Russia and the US have been trying to use ceasefires to that effect, but cynical actors have been using it to re-supply and prepare for the next offensive. Having been down that path, Russia has said eff this and is working to quickly destroy the terrorist groups - which should also bring an end to the conflict. Until then, civilians will get the short end of the stick. Oh, and be used for propaganda purposes.

John Swanson

 

[djpbaltimore]

Would you agree that being against bombing Aleppo to dust does not make one in league with ISIS as has been insinuated here?

 

[blutto]

Re: Re:

Al-Nusra, Al Qaeda, ISIL, Fatah Halab, YPG, FSA, YPJ, Syrian Arab Coalition, Syriac Military, Ba'ath Brigades.

Which of these groups are your Syrian "rebels" that formed a popular uprising against Assad's government? Which are foreigners screwing around in Syria? Yes, this is a proxy war. It is not a civil war. So when you get all these groups working together and coordinating tactics, logistics, and materiel I think it is right that you can treat them as a single entity. Especially if they refuse to disassociate themselves into "good rebels" and "bad terrorists".

The fact is, there really was a popular movement in Syria aimed at lifting the state of emergency (Damascus Spring) and improving civil rights (Arab Spring). This movement was suppressed by Assad though not in a particularly harsh way. Things changed in 2011 when a grand total of 7 Syrian officers left the military and formed an armed opposition group (FSA). Initially this group was run out of Turkey and had the stated goal of using armed force to depose Assad. As you can imagine things went hot...

From there the whole thing was co-opted by foreign powers (hello, NATO and US) with one of the goals to Balkanize Syria. Syria is on Russia's tender underbelly. Islamic nutjobs in Syria today means they'll be in Chechnya tomorrow. I really don't blame Russia (who is in Syria at the request of the legitimate government) for calling BS and trying to shut things down. A terrorist is a terrorist, no matter which label from above you want to stick on them. Russia is in the business of bombing terrorists. Good luck to those "moderate rebels".

John Swanson

But what about the civilians in the middle?

Yup. That is the tragedy of every war. Civilians get hurt the most. One preference would be to end the conflict as soon as possible. Russia and the US have been trying to use ceasefires to that effect, but cynical actors have been using it to re-supply and prepare for the next offensive. Having been down that path, Russia has said eff this and is working to quickly destroy the terrorist groups - which should also bring an end to the conflict. Until then, civilians will get the short end of the stick. Oh, and be used for propaganda purposes.

John Swanson

....ahhhh, precious propaganda, the grease for the wheels of war...blood is good for that, it photographs well and stirs emotions real good....and money too, did I forget the money?...

Cheers

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re:

Would you agree that being against bombing Aleppo to dust does not make one in league with ISIS as has been insinuated here?

Absolutely. The problem is that Aleppo is where the terrorists are. If hitting them hard so that they are unwilling or unable to fight, then that is what will end this conflict. I'm glad that I don't have to make the targeting choices. I think we've come to the point where strategically, the plan is to end the conflict and end it quickly. In that scenario, Aleppo might be destroyed.

John Swanson

 

[djpbaltimore]

I can agree with that sentiment (re: calling the shots). Always appreciate the discussion even when we don't agree 100%.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

Would you agree that being against bombing Aleppo to dust does not make one in league with ISIS as has been insinuated here?

Absolutely. The problem is that Aleppo is where the terrorists are. If hitting them hard so that they are unwilling or unable to fight, then that is what will end this conflict. I'm glad that I don't have to make the targeting choices. I think we've come to the point where strategically, the plan is to end the conflict and end it quickly. In that scenario, Aleppo might be destroyed.

John Swanson

'Targeting choices', funny/sad as Russia are using dumb cluster bombs in civilian areas. During the daylight. It's terror bombing at it's finest. Pump enough ball bearings into children and the rebels will surrender. Let the civilians leave, then start a ground offensive...and after Russia gets its nose bloodied, we'll see how long they hang around.

 

[BullsFan22]

Looks like the Russian stooges are out in full force in Yemen as well!!

http://www.democracynow.org/2016/10/11/obama_is_killing_yemen_a_yemeni

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Looks like the Russian stooges are out in full force in Yemen as well!!

http://www.democracynow.org/2016/10/11/obama_is_killing_yemen_a_yemeni

Syria using Russia intel, 'targeting', aircraft..BUT the difference is Russian pilots dropping the dumb cluster bombs on civilian targets, mainly in east Allepo.

Putin_is_killing_syria___

 

[blutto]

Looks like the Russian stooges are out in full force in Yemen as well!!

http://www.democracynow.org/2016/10/11/obama_is_killing_yemen_a_yemeni

Syria using Russia intel, 'targeting', aircraft..BUT the difference is Russian pilots dropping the dumb cluster bombs on civilian targets, mainly in east Allepo.

Putin_is_killing_syria___

....this from the New York Trash so you know this is just a hopelessly biased bit of propaganda.....so even given that a seemingly worthwhile read....

Cluster bombs, which have been used since World War II to kill and maim indiscriminately, were outlawed under an international treaty that was adopted in 2008.

Most of the world’s countries have signed the treaty, but not the United States and Russia, where many of the bombs were made. A report released on Thursday in Geneva found that the weapons continued to be used with near impunity in the conflicts in Syria and Yemen.

In Syria, at least 13 kinds of cluster munitions — dropped from the air or launched from the ground — have been used since 2012, said the report, the seventh annual Cluster Munition Monitor, which found “compelling evidence” that Russia had used the weapons since the start of its military intervention last September in support of Syria’s embattled government.

In Yemen, seven kinds of cluster munitions were used in 19 attacks from April 2015 to February of this year as part of the Saudi-led coalition’s fight against Shiite Houthi rebels, the report found. Saudi Arabia, which has not signed the treaty, has acknowledged using the munitions once, in April 2015. Most of the cluster bombs used in Yemen originated in three countries: the United States, Britain and Brazil.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/02/world/middleeast/cluster-bombs-syria-yemen.html?_r=0

....so where are your crocodile tears for the victims in Yemen....and maybe some condemnation of the manufacturers of such munitions....

...and btw there is a world of difference btwn "compelling evidence" and "has acknowledged" ....

...and there is this blast from the past...edit something dumb removed and an apology inserted....very sorry for typing what I did, it was uncalled for...no excuses it was monumentally stupid....

Next week, Mr. Obama will visit Laos as part of his final trip to Asia as president. Laos is the country most heavily contaminated by cluster bombs, which the United States dropped from 1964 to 1973, during the Vietnam War. Fourteen of the country’s 17 provinces, and a quarter of its villages, are thought to be contaminated with cluster bombs from that era, as are many parts of Cambodia and Vietnam.

Cheers

 

[djpbaltimore]

Yeah, acknowledging something actually shows that the country has the balls to admit what they did instead of hiding behind misinformation/ propaganda and paid-for-shills online to cover their tracks. Thank you making that distinction clear to everybody.

 

[python]

...never suspected, there are so many stooges in britain.

UK anti-war group rejects protests against Russia's war in Syria
http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/british-anti-war-movement-rejects-call-protest-russia-war-syria-1275315746

The vice-chairman of Britain’s "Stop the War" coalition on Wednesday said he opposed protesting against Russian bombing of Syria because “the media and politicians” are trying to portray Moscow as the “only problem”.

@ prof. blutov: do we have our resident in london ? if not, i am off to britain on a stooge recruiting trip...or i should 1st place an ad in a british politics thread ? btw, vlad indicated last night that i am guilty of receiving a bribe (he smelled your ikea herring) and may be recalled 'for consultations'. what should i do ?

@dartagnanski, @tovarisch glenkov: the jetty and the banya will have to wait till i get back from london. else, you should plan our ops with the professor somewhere else cos it stinks herring everywhere around brighton b.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Looks like the Russian stooges are out in full force in Yemen as well!!

http://www.democracynow.org/2016/10/11/obama_is_killing_yemen_a_yemeni

Syria using Russia intel, 'targeting', aircraft..BUT the difference is Russian pilots dropping the dumb cluster bombs on civilian targets, mainly in east Allepo.

Putin_is_killing_syria___

....this from the New York Trash so you know this is just a hopelessly biased bit of propaganda.....so even given that a seemingly worthwhile read....

Cluster bombs, which have been used since World War II to kill and maim indiscriminately, were outlawed under an international treaty that was adopted in 2008.

Most of the world’s countries have signed the treaty, but not the United States and Russia, where many of the bombs were made. A report released on Thursday in Geneva found that the weapons continued to be used with near impunity in the conflicts in Syria and Yemen.

In Syria, at least 13 kinds of cluster munitions — dropped from the air or launched from the ground — have been used since 2012, said the report, the seventh annual Cluster Munition Monitor, which found “compelling evidence” that Russia had used the weapons since the start of its military intervention last September in support of Syria’s embattled government.

In Yemen, seven kinds of cluster munitions were used in 19 attacks from April 2015 to February of this year as part of the Saudi-led coalition’s fight against Shiite Houthi rebels, the report found. Saudi Arabia, which has not signed the treaty, has acknowledged using the munitions once, in April 2015. Most of the cluster bombs used in Yemen originated in three countries: the United States, Britain and Brazil.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/02/world/middleeast/cluster-bombs-syria-yemen.html?_r=0

....so where are your crocodile tears for the victims in Yemen....and maybe some condemnation of the manufacturers of such munitions....

...and btw there is a world of difference btwn "compelling evidence" and "has acknowledged" ....

...and there is this blast from the past...curious, were you involved in any of these actions ?

Next week, Mr. Obama will visit Laos as part of his final trip to Asia as president. Laos is the country most heavily contaminated by cluster bombs, which the United States dropped from 1964 to 1973, during the Vietnam War. Fourteen of the country’s 17 provinces, and a quarter of its villages, are thought to be contaminated with cluster bombs from that era, as are many parts of Cambodia and Vietnam.

Cheers

I guess that sound is the point going over your head. Both the US and Russia are doing the same thing with the difference that Russia militAry is actively involved in this. To only mention another place where you can condemn the US w/o mentioning Russia shows.......?

Why don't you use your vast google-sense to see what impact Russia bombing had On Afghanistan, unless you don't really want to criticize anything Russia, Just things US.

Did I serve in the military, yes I did but to imply as a military member I may have been involved and as such, guilty of something is exactly what I expect from some civilians. Pretty easy to cut and paste, pretty hard to actually serve...even in Canada. But in blutto world, government/establishment/military bad...sitting at a keyboard and complaining in the comfort of a living room-easy.

Cheers

 

[BullsFan22]

Looks like the Russian stooges are out in full force in Yemen as well!!

http://www.democracynow.org/2016/10/11/obama_is_killing_yemen_a_yemeni

Syria using Russia intel, 'targeting', aircraft..BUT the difference is Russian pilots dropping the dumb cluster bombs on civilian targets, mainly in east Allepo.

Putin_is_killing_syria___

....


Nobody is without fault, but the bogeyman for the US seems to always be Russia. Russia this, Russia that. Too bad the Russians didn't get involved in Afghanistan in 2001 and Iraq in 2003. I am sure we wouldn't have heard the end of it. "See, Russia is killing civilians on purpose, whereas the US is accidentally killing civilians!"

 

[djpbaltimore]

And vice versa. The boogeyman for Russia always seems to be the USA. Notice how RT tried to pin the UN convoy attack on the USA.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

@PY understand on the herring.

@blutov that sound you just heard is the sonic boom that went over your head! LMAO

Has Russia hacked into the CYnews site here?

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

And vice versa. The boogeyman for Russia always seems to be the USA. Notice how RT tried to pin the UN convoy attack on the USA.

Why on earth would you read or watch RT?? It's Putin's puff piece journalism at work!

 

[djpbaltimore]

Are you going to troll, or do you actually want to have a discussion? If it is the former I won't reply to your posts anymore. thx

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Clearly there is some disinformation spread out from the CIA / the Obama administration and President Obama himself. I think the Russians are playing the game to keep Azzad in power. He will accept their help.

I don't think the USA was ever trying to help the people otherwise why prop up all these groups of terrorist.

After President Bush's disaster and mistake with Saddam in IRAQ.

 

[Brullnux]

Interesting that the opposition leader of one of the countries most involved on the US side of the war said that the US are as blameworthy as Russia. I don't think this has happened yet, and this is a feeling held by a lot of Brits actually.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/12/stop-the-war-coalition-protest-russian-embassy

If May also adopts this position, then could it be possible that the USA & allies and Russia actually agree on a functioning deal to destroy ISIS, push back Al-Nusra and other jihadi rebels back while making a concerted effort not to harm civilians? Or is that bit too optimistic. After Libya, I'm not sure the US listens to the UK at all. Maybe a joint backing of Turkish Kurds wouldn't go amiss either but that unfortunately isn't happening any time soon.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

Are you going to troll, or do you actually want to have a discussion? If it is the former I won't reply to your posts anymore. thx

You are right. I admit that was trolling a bit. I was drawn to python's, glenn's, blutto, etc banter up top and fell victim. As you probably have noticed, my political beliefs are more liberal/progressive than theirs (though that's just my opinion, I apologize to them if I am wrongly labeling them), but in terms of some foreign policy regarding the US we share similar beliefs. My honest opinion? I think some of the 'conservatives' on the politics boards here would probably feel different about Russia had Obama had more ties to Putin, for example. Ties as in political and economic deals, working together militarily, etc. I don't think they are fully on board with Trump, but they are just not too thrilled about Hillary. Just like a lot of Democrats are regarding Hillary. Not a wonderful candidate, but they look at Trump and that's that. Personally? I don't like either of them. I've stated that many times here. Not only do I despise their politics and their nastiness, oh and their former ties-Trump donating to both of the Clintons in the past, but to me, they just seem like manipulative, disingenuous, corrupt human beings. I know that's a strong opinion, particularly since I've never met them or anyone affiliated with them, but that's how I honestly feel. I saw what a Bill Clinton presidency did to the country of my birth and I can assure you, many in that region are not too thrilled about him or his wife and soon to be president. In that group are also people like Richard Holbrooke, Tony Blair, Madeline Albright, Javier Solana, etc. I'll spare you the rant on that particular issue, but just so you have an idea where I am coming from with my disdain towards Clinton. I have also not seen any changes in international relations and policy that is not dictated by militarism and profiteering by and via large corporations in the US and abroad. In that respect, Hilary or Donald are certainly not the first, last or most egregious, there are many that fall there. To be fair to the Donald, he's never made a political decision that's put lives in danger as far as military action is concerned, but I have no doubt that if such a time were to come, he would no doubt do it. That I guarantee Scott, Glenn, Blutto, Aphro, and others.

Now as far as Russia is concerned, I am not pro Putin. That may come as a surprise to you and the other readers here, but that's the truth. What I am however not going to do, is be hypnotized by the media and various politicians in blaming and pointing fingers at Russia for all political, military and economic problems. I know it's a popular thing to do, but I am not going to fall for it. Putin carries baggage, and he's certainly no angel, but this is tit for tat politics and I've seen this in play in US foreign policy and media relations before. I didn't fall for it then and I am certainly not going to fall for it now. As an aside, though I think it's very much relevant, the entire debacle of Russian sports being embroiled in the recent doping scandal, is political. Pure and simple. I don't want to go into detail here in a non-clinic thread, but I think the whole issue is being driven by politics. The American Olympic Committee and USATF was caught doing similar things in previous Olympics and World Championship cycles, and nothing was done. No recommendations for a blanket ban, no economic sanctions, very little media scrutiny. Again, it's this tit for tat.

That's where I stand.