Ninety5rpm said:
Ron Paul will come off as a Klansman if he tries to run. That is fine with the Libertarians (republicans in denial) though.
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Ron Paul will come off as a Klansman if he tries to run. That is fine with the Libertarians (republicans in denial) though.
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What do you mean if he tries to run? Did you read the two articles I linked? Don't worry, they're short.redtreviso said:
The racism accusation is a tired old meme. He is running, and the reception is much different this time than four years ago.
According to CNN, Paul polls stronger against Obama than any other potential Republican presidential candidate.
Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels
Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels may run for President. Any thoughts about him?
Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels may run for President. Any thoughts about him?
I'm thinking an across-the-board tax increase and another trillion dollar stimulus package should fix this.
Interesting slideshow.
http://growth.newamerica.net/sites/newamerica.net/files/policydocs/26-04-11%20Middle%20Class%20Under%20Stress.pdf
Interesting slideshow.
http://growth.newamerica.net/sites/newamerica.net/files/policydocs/26-04-11%20Middle%20Class%20Under%20Stress.pdf
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LaRouche is a crackpot conspiracist, to be sure.redtreviso said:
If you put Ron Paul in the same or similar category, you've obviously not paid much attention to him or what he has said. Instead, you're probably going by some vague impression you got, probably by reading somebody else's impression who hasn't read any of his books or listened to him. If nothing else, LaRouche has never been elected to any political office; Ron Paul has been elected to the House eight times, and his son is a Senator.
Last night, Jon Stewart had a few things to say about last week's GOP debate, and Ron Paul in particular:
www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-may-9-2011/indecision-2012---good-luck-motherf--kers-edition---blather-for-elephants
This is a few years old, but it's still applicable. I suggest you won't hear a guy like Bill Maher talking about LaRouche like this:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUYDt7kC3Z0
The respective WP article intros are telling:
Ronald Ernest "Ron" Paul, M.D. (born August 20, 1935) is an American Medical Doctor and Republican U.S. Congressman for the 14th congressional district of Texas. Paul serves on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, the Joint Economic Committee, the Committee on Financial Services and is Chairman of the House Financial Services Subcommittee on Domestic Monetary Policy where he has been an outspoken critic of current American foreign policy and monetary policy. He has gained prominence for his libertarian positions on many political issues, often clashing with both Republican and Democratic Party leaders. Paul has run for President of the United States twice, first in 1988 as the nominee of the Libertarian Party and again in 2008 as a candidate for the Republican nomination. On April 26, 2011, he announced he would run again in 2012 as a Republican. A 2010 scientific poll conducted by Rasmussen Reports among likely voters found Ron Paul and Barack Obama to be statistically tied in a hypothetical 2012 presidential election contest.[2][3][4]
Paul is the founder of the advocacy group Campaign for Liberty and his ideas have been expressed in numerous published articles and books, including Liberty Defined: 50 Essential Issues That Affect Our Freedom (2011), End The Fed (2009), The Revolution: A Manifesto (2008), Pillars of Prosperity (2008), A Foreign Policy of Freedom: Peace, Commerce, and Honest Friendship (2007), and The Case for Gold (1982). According to a 1998 study published in the American Journal of Political Science, Paul had the most conservative voting record of any member of Congress since 1937.[5] His son Rand Paul was elected to the United States Senate for Kentucky in 2011, making the elder Paul the first Representative in history to serve alongside a son or daughter in the Senate.[6]
Paul has been called the "intellectual grandfather" of the Tea Party movement.[7][8]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Paul
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lyndon Hermyle LaRouche, Jr. (born September 8, 1922) is an American political activist and founder of a network of political committees, parties, and publications known collectively as the LaRouche movement. Often described as a political extremist, he has written prolifically in his publications on economic, scientific, and political topics, as well as on history, philosophy, and psychoanalysis, largely promoting a conspiracist view of history and current affairs.[1]
LaRouche was a perennial presidential candidate from 1976 to 2004, running once for his own U.S. Labor Party and campaigning seven times for the Democratic Party nomination, though the latter disavowed him and he failed to attract appreciable electoral support. He was sentenced to 15 years' imprisonment in 1988 for conspiracy to commit mail fraud and tax code violations, but continued his political activities from behind bars until his release in 1994 on parole. Ramsey Clark, his chief appellate attorney and a former U.S. Attorney General, argued that LaRouche was denied a fair trial but the Court of Appeals unanimously rejected the appeal.[2]
Members of the LaRouche movement see LaRouche as a political leader in the tradition of Franklin D. Roosevelt. Other commentators, including The Washington Post and The New York Times, have described him over the years as a conspiracy theorist, fascist, and anti-Semite, and have characterized his movement as a cult.[3] Norman Bailey, formerly with the National Security Council, described LaRouche's staff in 1984 as one of the best private intelligence services in the world, while the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank, wrote that he leads "what may well be one of the strangest political groups in American history."[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_larouche
- May 13, 2009
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I would still call Ron Paul a crackpot. I can see the appeal of the libertarian worldview, but in this case, simple means simplistic.
When the rubber hits the road, libertarian economy is in fact widely unpopular in America. Look at the Ryan budget plan. Look at implementations of some of those ideas in Wisconsin, Michigan and Ohio. And that's the part of Ron Paul which is supposed to make up his appeal. Add to this his views on social issues and it is obvious why he'll never get more than maybe 10-20% of primary voters.
To look at matchup polls like Ron Paul vs. Obama and compare them to Romney/Obama, Pawlenty/Obama etc. I don't think is very fruitful at this moment. You are interested in politics, and so am I, so we are a preselect group. But at this point in the election campaign you'll get a lot of people into those polls which have no idea what the different candidates stand for.
When the rubber hits the road, libertarian economy is in fact widely unpopular in America. Look at the Ryan budget plan. Look at implementations of some of those ideas in Wisconsin, Michigan and Ohio. And that's the part of Ron Paul which is supposed to make up his appeal. Add to this his views on social issues and it is obvious why he'll never get more than maybe 10-20% of primary voters.
To look at matchup polls like Ron Paul vs. Obama and compare them to Romney/Obama, Pawlenty/Obama etc. I don't think is very fruitful at this moment. You are interested in politics, and so am I, so we are a preselect group. But at this point in the election campaign you'll get a lot of people into those polls which have no idea what the different candidates stand for.
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rhubroma said:
As I said, Newt might have forgotten why he isn't speaker any more. Low approval ratings, lost midterm election, ethics violation, rebellion of fellow republicans, and the unpopular shutdown together with this caricature. Who knows, maybe it's far enough removed in time to no longer matter. On the other hand, it seems to be his way to stay relevant. Testing the waters every four years just to learn (yet again) that it's not even worth trying. And some aspects of his personal life might not play well with the social conservatives.
redtreviso said:
Now I was betting you would have worked Hitler in somewhere. You are slipping.
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And (for those of you who think Ron Paul is not sufficiently a social conservative) none of those aspects will be found in Ron Paul's life, which will play well with the social conservatives.Cobblestones said:
You see, he shares the social conservatives values, he just does not want to impose them on others, and he argues this quite effectively from the social conservative perspective - that all this is 1st amendment rights, including the right to worship. He essentially argues that imposing social conservative values on others via law is putting the right to worship at risk. Flip sides of the same coin.
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The Ryan budget plan does not go nearly far enough... doesn't even touch defense. Here is the libertarian perspective on it: "It compares extremely favorably to President Barack Obama's own plan, but that is damnably faint praise."Cobblestones said:
http://reason.com/archives/2011/04/06/paul-ryans-republican-budget-t
Paul's mission is education first, then the presidency. He understand the latter cannot be achieved without the former, so education is his priority.
And it's working. Four years ago only Ron Paul was talking about sound money, problems at the Fed, gold, etc. Now these are common topics, at least on the financial networks. He also introduced most of us to the concept of "blowback", and how it should be considered in foreign policy.
The Ron Paul campaign is very different from any other presidential campaign in that it is much more about philosophy, message, consistency, and integrity than about the candidate. When people fully realize this, they tend to like it, but it's such a paradigm shift it's a difficult leap for some.
Scott SoCal said:
Wait, I thought the extension of the Bush era tax cuts was going to fix everything?...
Thoughtforfood said:
Yes, lied to again. Good thing healthcare produced those 200,000 jobs immediately or just think where we'd be.... we are lucky to have that Nancy Pelosi that's fer shure. Even Bill can't keep a straight face;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFWdiS55_j8&NR=1
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Do you have a quote of anyone even suggesting that the extension might make a lot of progress towards fixing "everything", much less going so far as to make this straw man claim?Thoughtforfood said:
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Ninety5rpm said:
Did that yesterday. I watched the Daily Show. Frothy mix ... ugh.
Anyway, back to your points. Yes, Ron Paul might be social conservative, but that alone isn't going to help. The religious right, the born again Christians, do have a missionary streak. Why do you think gay marriage bans have been popular at the ballot box. Why is abortion being restricted more and more? Because that's what many republican voters want. They do want to shove their religious beliefs down everybody's throat.
And if you think the Ryan budget plan isn't popular because it doesn't go far enough, then by all means have a go at more.
You see, the pillars of Bismarck's welfare state which we in the US call social security, medicare, unemployment benefits etc. have survived in their country of origin:
1) two lost world wars
2) hyperinflation of the Weimar Republic
3) Fascism
4) Occupation and the division of the country
5) Economic divergence post WW2
6) Reunification
7) Countless changes of currency.
Why would anybody think that this stuff cannot be made to survive in the relative stability of the US is beyond me. But of course the point of dismantling these programs was never because they can't survive (otherwise, it would be easier to simply wait them out). It's purely out of ideological reasons, mostly of the libertarian type. The more this stuff is pushed, the worse the Republicans will do in the elections. Bush tried to privatize social security. That idea was shelved rather quickly, too. As I understand it, the Ryan budget plan is dead in the water by now and plenty of house republicans are unhappy with Boehner for having them take this vote.
Ron Paul is an ideologue. Here I agree with you. But this whole idea of libertarianism is both utter nonsense and highly unpopular when implemented. The gold standard, and all the other weird ideas are almost comical.
Ninety5rpm said:
http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201105100025
There are plenty more, but I won't do your heavy lifting. Maybe if you learn google you might work out this stuff for yourself lol.
Ninety5rpm said:
Yea, if this is 2008...hey, you ever heard of a Snuggie? Maybe google that too while you are looking up the wild claims about extending the Bush Tax cuts.
Ninety5rpm said:
Newbie to politics huh? Um, having the presidency with a congress with little to no real support for your agenda is a circle of fu*k of cluster. But hey, ideological utopias have often come about when extreme ideologists have risen to power lol...
Plus, you should consider that Libertarian economic ideas have a big drawback; Not a single major industrialized nation on the planet uses them. Ringing endorsement from reality, huh? lol
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