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redtreviso said:President of what? the bada bing??
He was a US Attorney. A. Those guys have impeccable records. Period. B. He is honest.
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Thoughtforfood said:
You really think so, huh? This guy is directly connected to the Koch Brothers.Their money, and influence, which he tried to keep secret from his own constituents.
He's also the one that took the helicopter ride to watch his son play baseball for a few innings. Later, when caught, he agreed to pay for it.
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Quiet few days in the halls of the political wing of the cafe.
Very good AP article on why Congress has become so dysfunctional.
Very good AP article on why Congress has become so dysfunctional.
Alpe d'Huez said:
So taking money from the Koch brothers makes you a liar? I am not fan of the Koch brothers, but their money (like the money of George Soros) means that if you have national aspirations, you are going to run across them at some point if you also want money.
You're gonna base your entire assessment of someone's honesty on the Koch brothers and a helicopter ride huh? You have a pretty high standard, I wonder if even you can stand up to your scrutiny? Don't answer, I already know.
I like the guy. I still think I will vote for Obama, though Obama has been one of the most disappointing Democratic Presidents I have ever seen. He surrenders more than the French. He has ideals that he thinks about at night and then pretends don't exist during the day. He sounds like a 2001 moderate Republican with less bravado.
Sorry, but Christie seems like a pretty honest politician. I see why SoCal dislikes this place so much. You guys are as bad as the conservatives on another forum I frequent. Echo chambers and their participants convince themselves.
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Did you bother reading the link? Listen to the audio clips?
What bothers me is when someone takes one position, then privately meets someone with a lot of money - who happens to be out of their governing district - and shazam, changes their position, such as Christie did with RGGI pact. Christie would have also been happy to have his trip to the Koch summit in Colorado a secret. To me, that's not the same as "running across them" as you put it. And no, I did not call him a "liar", you used that word. I just question his honesty and integrity. I'm also extremely tired of politicians saying the only way to fix the economy is for the wealthiest (who donate to their campaigns) to have tax breaks, while working people like teachers need to make less money and have less benefits, which is what the crux of most of what Christie has pushed for.
Either way, he's not running. The rudder of the Republican party right now is in the hands of the Tea Party money. Many of whom are are hoping he'll run because Romney has been the defacto front-runner for some time, and he's viewed as being a weak candidate by many, a flip flopper, and too moderate. So they clamored for Bachman to hop in, and when she did, she was viewed as too crazy. So they clamored for Perry to jump in. He did, and he looks like a bumbling dolt who can't think on his feet. But while Bachman and Perry do fit the "eliminate the government" thinking of the Tea Party, Christie hasn't stepped that far to the right. He also doesn't have his own team set-up right now to run, so would have to be steered by the TP, and I don't see that happening. If in three years we hear he's running, he may have a chance. And if he runs on a platform calling for campaign finance and lobby reform, I'll even consider calling him honest.
Strangely, I've been accused by Red, and a few others, of siding with Scott and the conservatives.
What bothers me is when someone takes one position, then privately meets someone with a lot of money - who happens to be out of their governing district - and shazam, changes their position, such as Christie did with RGGI pact. Christie would have also been happy to have his trip to the Koch summit in Colorado a secret. To me, that's not the same as "running across them" as you put it. And no, I did not call him a "liar", you used that word. I just question his honesty and integrity. I'm also extremely tired of politicians saying the only way to fix the economy is for the wealthiest (who donate to their campaigns) to have tax breaks, while working people like teachers need to make less money and have less benefits, which is what the crux of most of what Christie has pushed for.
Either way, he's not running. The rudder of the Republican party right now is in the hands of the Tea Party money. Many of whom are are hoping he'll run because Romney has been the defacto front-runner for some time, and he's viewed as being a weak candidate by many, a flip flopper, and too moderate. So they clamored for Bachman to hop in, and when she did, she was viewed as too crazy. So they clamored for Perry to jump in. He did, and he looks like a bumbling dolt who can't think on his feet. But while Bachman and Perry do fit the "eliminate the government" thinking of the Tea Party, Christie hasn't stepped that far to the right. He also doesn't have his own team set-up right now to run, so would have to be steered by the TP, and I don't see that happening. If in three years we hear he's running, he may have a chance. And if he runs on a platform calling for campaign finance and lobby reform, I'll even consider calling him honest.
Strangely, I've been accused by Red, and a few others, of siding with Scott and the conservatives.
Alpe d'Huez said:
Criticism light...Even now you make it sound like these people are just the opposite side of a coin..Like they should be viewed in a reasonable fashion..
If you were black I'd call you a "go along get along" Many republicans who aren't impaired with alcohol or just naturally *** will feign objection to teabag and neocon ideas to not sound completely fstupid, but they'll never not vote republican..
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See what I mean.redtreviso said:
Well, there's the tact that he's less of a liar than the likes of Romney, Perry, Bachman, Obama for that matter. At least until enough bribery money comes flowing in and he can fully join them in their nadir of honesty.gregod said:
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The system is irrevocably corrupt and fetid. It is a sham.
Campaign financing and the lobbies have debilitated the patient beyond hope and made a mockery of the democracy, for which any real and meaningful public reform just isn't possible under these appalling circumstances and because everything’s owned by the private sector. The only draw to run for political office these days is power, however real or illusory that power may be, and to lend a hand to your mighty friends in the business and financial sectors, or at any rate to not disturb them too much. In fact the power of the leader to make change has been demonstrated painfully void, insignificant, and ultimately meaningless, because the reality is that the country isn't, nor has it ever been, in the peoples hands, but in those of a myriad of special interest groups that dictate the political agenda. That's the truth. In this sense the country's been shamelessly sold to the highest bidders merely for profit and political gains. Even if you are republican or a democrat it makes no difference. If you are a republican it's just easier to go to war, to deploy the massive military machine, for you friends in the business-industrial complex, whereas if you are a democrat such wars are impossible to get out of and any attempts at curbing the overwhelming power that this complex and finance have over the country for the public wellbeing proves to be merely rhetorical and ultimately ridiculous.
And what kind of democratic state is it anyway for which one needs to raise hundreds of millions of dollars, when that money could be spent in an infinite number of ways to help society, just to become president? How is this a reflection of how much, or how little, actual democracy is in the system?
Campaign financing and the lobbies have debilitated the patient beyond hope and made a mockery of the democracy, for which any real and meaningful public reform just isn't possible under these appalling circumstances and because everything’s owned by the private sector. The only draw to run for political office these days is power, however real or illusory that power may be, and to lend a hand to your mighty friends in the business and financial sectors, or at any rate to not disturb them too much. In fact the power of the leader to make change has been demonstrated painfully void, insignificant, and ultimately meaningless, because the reality is that the country isn't, nor has it ever been, in the peoples hands, but in those of a myriad of special interest groups that dictate the political agenda. That's the truth. In this sense the country's been shamelessly sold to the highest bidders merely for profit and political gains. Even if you are republican or a democrat it makes no difference. If you are a republican it's just easier to go to war, to deploy the massive military machine, for you friends in the business-industrial complex, whereas if you are a democrat such wars are impossible to get out of and any attempts at curbing the overwhelming power that this complex and finance have over the country for the public wellbeing proves to be merely rhetorical and ultimately ridiculous.
And what kind of democratic state is it anyway for which one needs to raise hundreds of millions of dollars, when that money could be spent in an infinite number of ways to help society, just to become president? How is this a reflection of how much, or how little, actual democracy is in the system?
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More than 700 protesters demonstrating against corporate greed, global warming and social inequality, were arrested Saturday after they swarmed the Brooklyn Bridge and shut down a lane of traffic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbL3z4c-hgU&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbL3z4c-hgU&feature=youtu.be
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Zam_Olyas said:
It just goes to show you that the days of Serpico haven't changed: the same brutality, the same fascist methods.
http://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2011/10/02/news/usa_anti_wall_street-22547295/?ref=HREA-1
Il movimento contesta le politiche seguite per fronteggiare la crisi economica. Il collante è la protesta contro le logiche di Wall Street, ma anche la delusione nei confronti del presidente Barack Obama che a loro avviso, come ogni presidente, è "schiavo" di quelle logiche. L'ispirazione viene dagli "indignados" spagnoli 1, dalle manifestazioni greche 2, dalle rivolte in Egitto e in Tunisia, dalle tende montate dai manifestanti a Tel Aviv 3. "Questa protesta è l'unico modo per rappresentare noi stessi", spiega Norman Koener, un insegnate di Filadelfia venuto a New York per sostenere il movimento anti Wall Street. "Il Congresso non legifera per noi, e Obama è andato contro tutti i suoi propositi iniziali. Non penso che riuscirà ad essere rieletto ma del resto anche i Repubblicani sono un fallimento. A che serve votare per due partiti corrotti? L'unica soluzione è la democrazia che si vede in questa piazza", conclude amaro il professore.
(The movement contests the political path taken to confront the economic crisis. The binding element is a protest against the logic of Wall Street, but also the delusion before president Barack Obama, who, as he appears to them and as just like any other president, is the “slave” of such logic. The protest has been inspired by 1) the spanish “indignados,” 2) the Greek manifestations and 3) the revolts in Egypt and Tunisia and by the tent camps of the Tel Aviv protesters. “This protest is the only way to represent ourselves,” explains Norman Koener, a teacher from Philadelphia who came to New York to support the anti-Wall Street movement. “Congress doesn't legislate on our behalf, while Obama has gone against all of his initial proposals. I don't think he will succeed in getting reelected, though in any case the republicans have also failed. What good is it to vote for these two corrupt parties? The only salvation is the democracy that is being witnessed publicly here,” concludes the embittered teacher.)
In fact I was reading the other day about how the banks and the hedge fund investors stand to make a killing on Greece's sovereign debt at the expense of the German tax payers and, of course, of the public services for Greeks. Add this to the long list of reasons why the financial apparatus is irrevocably hostile to the public interests.
Alpe d'Huez said:
Okay, that part is true.
I began reading the news of the protests in NY, DC, and LA last night. Being in school now, I am in this bubble, and news does not break in that much. The cracks are starting to widen in the US. In many ways, I almost welcome the coming Republican tide. They are going to sweep into Washington next year and then begin implementing their cut/tax/and cap policy. One of the reasons I want Christie to run (and win) is because I believe he will implement their policy in a much less compromising way than someone like Romney. I want them to show the world a relatively unfiltered version of their economic policy. One that takes their "teach a man to fish" rhetoric and puts it to the test. There are two ultimate outcomes: 1. Their policies succeed in turning the economy around. (And create a capitalist utopia where people stop their corrupt business practices, and the markets function the way Adam Smith always said they would) OR 2. We are dragged into a deeper depression and people can see that their fiscal policy is a paper tiger. There won't be any "teaching" anyone anything. There will be a more massive shift in wealth, and then the cracks in the religion of Capitalism will be tested indeed.
Someone like Christie or Cain winning the presidency will be the best thing for our democracy in the long run. In the short term, it is going to be painful. I believe the ultimate outcome will be the destruction of the utopian idea of unfettered Capitalism.
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redtreviso said:
"As to the wisdom of the learned professions, the more empty-headed and the more reckless any member of any one of them is, the more he will be thought of. The physician is always in request, and yet medicine, as it is now frequently practised, is nothing but a system of pure humbug. Next in repute to the physicians stand the pettifogging lawyers, who are, according to the philosophers, a set of asses. And asses, I grant you that, they are. Nevertheless, it is by the will and pleasure of these asses that the business of the world is transacted..."
Desiderius Erasmus of Rotterdam, In Praise of Folly: Fortune Favors the Fool (1509)
Zam_Olyas said:
funny if you watch these videos, part of the park under the Brooklyn Bridge that was recently completed after extensive renovation was done with lots of private money from the million/billionaires that the protesters are against.
Last night was also an event called First Saturday at the Brooklyn Museum. Same set of circumstances there. The museum is still open only because of the good graces of philanthropy(tax breaks).
I guzzled some great beer at Washington Commons and ended the night at Weatherup, before heading home. I was amazed at the number of people that were proud of their participation in the protest and still found the time and cash to enjoy Dogfish Head 120 min IPA, limited edition for 12 bucks a glass and some awesome vodka drinks for between 11-15 dollars a pop.
These posh protesters are really sending mixed messages, mixed with hand squeezed fresh juices.
fatandfast said:
Funny stuff going on up there. he he he
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PiXDTK_CBY
send Seal Team 6 to the Cayman Islands
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redtreviso said:Funny stuff going on up there. he he he
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PiXDTK_CBY
send Seal Team 6 to the Cayman Islands
Terrifying!...maybe not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4QUePfHFQY&NR=1
rhubroma said:
Did you stroke your goatee and take a sip of wine when you quoted that? Everyone hates an attorney until they need one, and sooner or later, they will need one.
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