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May 23, 2010
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fatandfast said:
between 5-30,000 a month. The post/text that was included w the video was"WallSt Mocks protesters". People at a bar/cafe are considered to be mocking somebody? If people are to be condemned for where they eat and drink I can see lots of problems coming up from that behavior. We had a bunch of loonies tossing paint on people that they thought were wearing fur, turns out they had on fake fur. That was just a silly detail in the eyes of the protesters. Being on or near Wall St in nice clothes or consuming anything other than a veggie sandwich or a PBR are strange and misplaced criteria for who is friend or foe. Your point that the apts often cost 10k per month is what? The protesters in 3 or 4 cities in Israel and Germany are against the same thing, unaffordable housing. The protesters in lower Manhattan have said squat about the cost of apts.

They might as well had signs on that read "I've got mine fu" while they sipped their drinks. Not mocking??? Those people are the most circle jerking bunch of psychopaths on the planet.. They all aspire to be Bernie Maddoff but not get caught. Everything they do is for appearance and that is what they were doing..
 
Jul 14, 2009
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redtreviso said:
Listen to how someone (the producer?) corrects the fox reporter when he says colleague .. She says COMRADE.. This was filmed by fox but not aired.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yrT-0Xbrn4

saw the comrade part did you see the part where the guy wearing the soldier hat mixed, Glen Beck, racism, health care, decline in living standards, food for the poor, health care for the sick and the for profit health care system, and the questioning of the presidents birth cert and news corp being investigated into an anti wall st protest. what about organic chickens or the lack of free softserve ice cream? He did leave those out. why? why not touch on everything while the camera suddenly gives you attention? this soldier could have made more of his screen time.
 
May 23, 2010
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fatandfast said:
saw the comrade part did you see the part where the guy wearing the soldier hat mixed, Glen Beck, racism, health care, decline in living standards, food for the poor, health care for the sick and the for profit health care system, and the questioning of the presidents birth cert and news corp being investigated into an anti wall st protest. what about organic chickens or the lack of free softserve ice cream? He did leave those out. why? why not touch on everything while the camera suddenly gives you attention? this soldier could have made more of his screen time.

I guess you missed the part about it not being aired?

http://www.observer.com/2011/10/exclusive-occupy-wall-street-activist-slams-fox-news-anchor-in-un-aired-interview-video/
 
Apr 11, 2009
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redtreviso said:
Webcasting in the rain is noisier than your 100 reforms..Foxnews could use you as a commentator though..You could laugh at "trust fundys" getting champagne poured on them by derivative trading "job creators"..woo hoo

You've packed quite a few inflamatory buzz words into a meaningless response. woo hoo. when you have time, I can explain the 100 reforms, that is if you can take some time away from web casting in the rain with hipsters on fixies. Now there's some inflamatioon!
 
Apr 20, 2009
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fatandfast said:
between 5-30,000 a month. The post/text that was included w the video was"WallSt Mocks protesters". People at a bar/cafe are considered to be mocking somebody? If people are to be condemned for where they eat and drink I can see lots of problems coming up from that behavior. We had a bunch of loonies tossing paint on people that they thought were wearing fur, turns out they had on fake fur. That was just a silly detail in the eyes of the protesters. Being on or near Wall St in nice clothes or consuming anything other than a veggie sandwich or a PBR are strange and misplaced criteria for who is friend or foe. Your point that the apts often cost 10k per month is what? The protesters in 3 or 4 cities in Israel and Germany are against the same thing, unaffordable housing. The protesters in lower Manhattan have said squat about the cost of apts.

i know what you are saying and i, too, thought that there was more to the picture than what was originally reported.

that said, given the nature of the protests, a little more discretion would have been well-advised. it would be like having a loud summer barbecue next door to a house that was in mourning. even if the partying neighbor did not know the status of the next door neighbor, people would still think them insensitive. one SHOULD know what is going on around them. it is all a part of living harmoniously in a community. sometimes we have to make a small sacrifice for the overall goodwill.
 
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Anonymous

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shawnrohrbach said:
Right now, IMHO, it stinks of something trust fundies do when they're bored. I was in Boulder studying at Naropa (trust fund haven) in 1999 when a bunch of the students packed up and flew to Seattle to protest what? The World Trade Organization? The what? who cares, we can afford to go, it's against The Man, and Seattle's hip. Then they ripped up downtown Seattle and got what? Nothing? Then they came back to Boulder to sip hot chai and tell everyone they had changed the world. The only way this new thing is going to get serious is if the fat cops with their mace keep running around and spraying pretty girls in the face. Now THAT sucks, but otherwise, this is a yawn for me. No purpose, no organization, no end game, nothing but hip people with expensive laptops webcasting in the rain. I have a list of about 100 reforms that need to be made in the banking/investment industry that will effectively wrest control out of the hands of those who took control after banking de-regulation. Try and articulate these reforms to a trust fundy and you can get as far as explaining how their money arrives automatically the first of every month, after that they don't get it.

I'm interested, PM me the list if you would.
 
May 23, 2010
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shawnrohrbach said:
You've packed quite a few inflamatory buzz words into a meaningless response. woo hoo. when you have time, I can explain the 100 reforms, that is if you can take some time away from web casting in the rain with hipsters on fixies. Now there's some inflamatioon!

2 would do it

repeal this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_Futures_Modernization_Act_of_2000

and this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm%E2%80%93Leach%E2%80%93Bliley_Act

and for good measure hang these three by their ankles in front of the NYSE
2685177018_82bf33ff2d_o.jpg


alan-greenspan.jpg
 
Apr 11, 2009
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redtreviso said:
2 would do it

repeal this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_Futures_Modernization_Act_of_2000

and this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm%E2%80%93Leach%E2%80%93Bliley_Act

and for good measure hang these three by their ankles in front of the NYSE
2685177018_82bf33ff2d_o.jpg


alan-greenspan.jpg

Ok, now I agree with you. Glass Steagall and Phil Gramms Monetary Reform Act contain most of the issues needing re-reforming. While I am not prone to violence or "protesting" on Wall Street, which is as effective as f@rting softly into a strong wind, reversing the two Acts noted above in my response starts us in the right direction. Now, I will place a fresh new tin foil hat on my head and proceed with the manifesto of the 99ers, which I agree to whole heartedly:

I am not Anonymous. I am an American.

I am not just a Consumer. I am a Citizen.

I will no longer be labeled Left or Right, Liberal or Conservative, Demopublican or Republocrat.

I will no longer follow Puppets labeled Left or Right, Liberal or Conservative, Demopublican or Republocrat.

I am the People. And I am coming for the Puppetmasters.

I am part of the 99 Percent. And I demand the following:

1. End the Fed.

2. Reverse Citizens United.

3. Repeal PATRIOT Act.

4. Expose 9/11 Truth.

5. End Profit Wars.

6. Refund Taxpayer Trillions.

7. Imprison the Kleptocrats.

8. Single Term Limits.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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redtreviso said:
""We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that... Do you think the millionaire ought to pay more in taxes than the bus driver or less?""----guess
Eisenhower? Nixon?!

shawnrohrbach said:
...that is if you can take some time away from web casting in the rain with hipsters on fixies.
You really are from Seattle! You make us look normal in some ways, and Portland is just flat out weird (and very white)!

shawnrohrbach said:
Ok, now I agree with you. Glass Steagall and Phil Gramms Monetary Reform Act contain most of the issues needing re-reforming...
Agree.

I am part of the 99 Percent. And I demand the following.

1. End the Fed. - Disagree. I'm not even certain more oversight would be beneficial, as Congress would be doing the overseeing.

2. Reverse Citizens United. - Fully agree.

3. Repeal PATRIOT Act. - Mostly agree.

4. Expose 9/11 Truth. - WTF? As in..?

5. End Profit Wars. - Or just "wars". Agree.

6. Refund Taxpayer Trillions. From what, to whom? This sounds like Tea Party rhetoric. Give tax payer dollars back, of which the wealthy get more money, and the poor get zip, and now the government has no money left, so programs must be cut, etc.

7. Imprison the Kleptocrats. Be more specific.

8. Single Term Limits - Disagree. Think Senate could be limited to three terms and House to six. Or thereabouts. Keep Presidential cycle the same.

My "demands" (being part of the 99 percent as well):

1. Total overhaul of campaign financing, including public financed campaigns in many races, and ending of Super PAC's and limitless independent spending on political campaigns.

2. Make private lobbying and related political donations a felony. If lobbyists wish to speak to politicians they can do it at open forums and town hall meetings with the rest of the citizens.

3. Eliminate the two-party system. Or at the very least make all primaries open (making party affiliation all but moot).

4. Bring back the line-item veto for the President, the way it was in 1996.

5. End the overseas wars, and most overseas military bases. Focus on protecting US property and it's citizens at home.

6. End the Bush tax cuts.

I could make a bigger list, including tax reform, health care reform, trade changes, domestic infrastructure overhaul, etc. But I'll stop with these key six that probably 80% of the country would agree on.
 
Jul 14, 2009
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redtreviso said:

What? It's available for public viewing and that's not aired? So no nationwide equals no exposure or validity? Viral is sometimes as effective as boiler plate BS that Fox regurgitates nightly. The protest and protesters, even today have started to organize so that the mistakes using our media in the Middle East are not repeated here. People in half a dozen locations are scrambling to be designated as an official spokesperson/leader. The splintered agenda will be the unraveling of the movement. Just being ****ed off while I agree w is hard to do away with by camping in a park or blocking off a bridge, unless there is free weed and beer. Then the feelings of anger are lessened quite a bit. I will from now on only watch the videos you certify as"official".
Our local NYC media have reported that a food fund was created for the protesters, last count they had about 3000 bucks for pizza and ramen and tofu patties
 
May 13, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
1. End the Fed. - Disagree. I'm not even certain more oversight would be beneficial, as Congress would be doing the overseeing.

2. Reverse Citizens United. - Fully agree.

3. Repeal PATRIOT Act. - Mostly agree.

4. Expose 9/11 Truth. - WTF? As in..?

5. End Profit Wars. - Or just "wars". Agree.

6. Refund Taxpayer Trillions. From what, to whom? This sounds like Tea Party rhetoric. Give tax payer dollars back, of which the wealthy get more money, and the poor get zip, and now the government has no money left, so programs must be cut, etc.

7. Imprison the Kleptocrats. Be more specific.

8. Single Term Limits - Disagree. Think Senate could be limited to three terms and House to six. Or thereabouts. Keep Presidential cycle the same.

My "demands" (being part of the 99 percent as well):

1. Total overhaul of campaign financing, including public financed campaigns in many races, and ending of Super PAC's and limitless independent spending on political campaigns.

2. Make private lobbying and related political donations a felony. If lobbyists wish to speak to politicians they can do it at open forums and town hall meetings with the rest of the citizens.

3. Eliminate the two-party system. Or at the very least make all primaries open (making party affiliation all but moot).

4. Bring back the line-item veto for the President, the way it was in 1996.

5. End the overseas wars, and most overseas military bases. Focus on protecting US property and it's citizens at home.

6. End the Bush tax cuts.

I could make a bigger list, including tax reform, health care reform, trade changes, domestic infrastructure overhaul, etc. But I'll stop with these key six that probably 80% of the country would agree on.

This is pretty much it. Some of the demands seem to be pretty out there.

End the Fed? I dunno, that sounds like kicking the baby out with the bathwater. It's not central banking 'per se' which is the problem, it's whom you put in charge. And Greenspan was simply the wrong guy at the wrong time.

Expose 9/11 truth? That makes these guys sound like lunatics.

Alpe's list is something I could get behind. It's relevant and to the point. The only exception I would take is about 'Eliminate the two party system'. It needs to be reformulated. The two-party system is a function of the 'winner takes all' election system. We should simply introduce a proportional system. That should be enough to see third (and fourth) parties grow. Probably that's what Alpe meant anyway.
 
May 23, 2010
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fatandfast said:
What? It's available for public viewing and that's not aired? So no nationwide equals no exposure or validity? Viral is sometimes as effective as boiler plate BS that Fox regurgitates nightly. The protest and protesters, even today have started to organize so that the mistakes using our media in the Middle East are not repeated here. People in half a dozen locations are scrambling to be designated as an official spokesperson/leader. The splintered agenda will be the unraveling of the movement. Just being ****ed off while I agree w is hard to do away with by camping in a park or blocking off a bridge, unless there is free weed and beer. Then the feelings of anger are lessened quite a bit. I will from now on only watch the videos you certify as"official".
Our local NYC media have reported that a food fund was created for the protesters, last count they had about 3000 bucks for pizza and ramen and tofu patties

yea yea ..and now back to greta
 
May 23, 2010
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Cobblestones said:
This is pretty much it. Some of the demands seem to be pretty out there.

End the Fed? I dunno, that sounds like kicking the baby out with the bathwater. It's not central banking 'per se' which is the problem, it's whom you put in charge. And Greenspan was simply the wrong guy at the wrong time.

Expose 9/11 truth? That makes these guys sound like lunatics.

Alpe's list is something I could get behind. It's relevant and to the point. The only exception I would take is about 'Eliminate the two party system'. It needs to be reformulated. The two-party system is a function of the 'winner takes all' election system. We should simply introduce a proportional system. That should be enough to see third (and fourth) parties grow. Probably that's what Alpe meant anyway.

Any federal reserve official who mentions Ayn Rand ought to be confined to a mental health facility.. Wrong guy indeed..

911 truth LUNATICS??? Not as much as a federal reserve official stroking in public about Ayn Rand. (maybe you missed the recent story about Pensacola????)
 
Jul 27, 2010
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http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2011/11/michael-lewis-201111#gotopage2

Long article in Vanity Fair on how and why California is approaching bankruptcy. The author interviewed among others the ex-Governor, and for those in this forum, the description of the Terminator on a bike is probably worth the price of admission:

He hauls a bike off the back of the car, hops on, and takes off down an already busy Ocean Avenue. He wears no bike helmet, runs red lights, and rips past do not enter signs without seeming to notice them and up one-way streets the wrong way. When he wants to cross three lanes of fast traffic he doesn’t so much as glance over his shoulder but just sticks out his hand and follows it, assuming that whatever is behind him will stop. His bike has at least 10 speeds, but he has just 2: zero and pedaling as fast as he can… He has no entourage, not even a bodyguard. His former economic adviser, David Crane, and his media adviser, Adam Mendelsohn, who came along for the ride just because it sounded fun, are now somewhere far behind him. Anyone paying attention would think, That guy might look like Arnold, but it can’t possibly be Arnold, because Arnold would never be out alone on a bike at seven in the morning, trying to commit suicide. It isn’t until he is forced to stop at a red light that he makes meaningful contact with the public. A woman pushing a baby stroller and talking on a cell phone crosses the street right in front of him and does a double take. “Oh . . . my . . . God,” she gasps into her phone. “It’s Bill Clinton!” She’s not 10 feet away, but she keeps talking to the phone, as if the man were unreal. “I’m here with Bill Clinton.”

“It’s one of those guys who has had a sex scandal,” says Arnold, smiling.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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Funny guy. Shame he quite possibly did as bad a job as governor as Gray Davis, and that's saying something. Now, it's Jerry Brown's turn to try to fix the mess.

Wonder where Scott is on all this? Hopefully on vacation, and not walking away from us again.
 
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Anonymous

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Alpe d'Huez said:
Funny guy. Shame he quite possibly did as bad a job as governor as Gray Davis, and that's saying something. Now, it's Jerry Brown's turn to try to fix the mess.

Wonder where Scott is on all this? Hopefully on vacation, and not walking away from us again.

There is no "fixing the mess" and that's the point of the article.

On the city of San Jose:

The relationship between the people and their money in California is such that you can pluck almost any city at random and enter a crisis. San Jose has the highest per capita income of any city in the United States, after New York. It has the highest credit rating of any city in California with a population over 250,000. It is one of the few cities in America with a triple-A rating from Moody’s and Standard & Poor’s, but only because its bondholders have the power to compel the city to levy a tax on property owners to pay off the bonds. The city itself is not all that far from being bankrupt.

I t’s late afternoon when I meet Mayor Chuck Reed in his office at the top of the city-hall tower. The crowd below has just begun to chant. The public employees, as usual, are protesting him. Reed is so used to it that he hardly notices. He’s a former air-force officer and Vietnam-era veteran with an intellectual bent and the clipped manner of a midwestern farmer. He has a master’s degree from Princeton, a law degree from Stanford, and a lifelong interest in public policy. Still, he presents less as the mayor of a big city in California than as a hard-bitten, upstanding sheriff of a small town who doesn’t want any trouble. Elected to the city council in 2000, he became mayor six years later; in 2010 he was re-elected with 77 percent of the vote. He’s a Democrat, but at this point it doesn’t much matter which party he belongs to, or what his ideological leanings are, or for that matter how popular he is with the people of San Jose. He’s got a problem so big that it overwhelms ordinary politics: the city owes so much more money to its employees than it can afford to pay that it could cut its debts in half and still wind up broke. “I did a calculation of cost per public employee,” he says as we settle in. “We’re not as bad as Greece, I don’t think.”

The problem, he explains, pre-dates the most recent financial crisis. “Hell, I was here. I know how it started. It started in the 1990s with the Internet boom. We live near rich people, so we thought we were rich.” San Jose’s budget, like the budget of any city, turns on the pay of public-safety workers: the police and firefighters now eat 75 percent of all discretionary spending. The Internet boom created both great expectations for public employees and tax revenues to meet them. In its negotiations with unions the city was required to submit to binding arbitration, which works for police officers and firefighters just as it does for Major League Baseball players. Each side of any pay dispute makes its best offer, and a putatively neutral judge picks one of them. There is no meeting in the middle: the judge simply rules for one side or the other. Each side thus has an incentive to be reasonable, for the less reasonable they are, the less likely it is that the judge will favor their proposal. The problem with binding arbitration for police officers and firefighters, says Reed, is that the judges are not neutral. “They tend to be labor lawyers who favor the unions,” he says, “and so the city does anything it can to avoid the process.” And what politician wants to spat publicly with police officers and firefighters?

“Our police and firefighters will earn more in retirement than they did when they were working,” says Reed. “There used to be an argument that you have to give us money or we can’t afford to live in the city. Now the more you pay them the less likely they are to live in the city, because they can afford to leave. It’s staggering. When did we go from giving people sick leave to letting them accumulate it and cash it in for hundreds of thousands of dollars when they are done working? There’s a corruption here. It’s not just a financial corruption. It’s a corruption of the attitude of public service.”

He hands me a chart. It shows that the city’s pension costs when he first became interested in the subject were projected to run $73 million a year. This year they would be $245 million: pension and health-care costs of retired workers now are more than half the budget. In three years’ time pension costs alone would come to $400 million, though “if you were to adjust for real life expectancy it is more like $650 million.” Legally obliged to meet these costs, the city can respond only by cutting elsewhere. As a result, San Jose, once run by 7,450 city workers, was now being run by 5,400 city workers. The city was back to staffing levels of 1988, when it had a quarter of a million fewer residents. The remaining workers had taken a 10 percent pay cut; yet even that was not enough to offset the increase in the city’s pension liability.

B y 2014, Reed had calculated, a city of a million people, the 10th-largest city in the United States, would be serviced by 1,600 public workers. “There is no way to run a city with that level of staffing,” he said. “You start to ask: What is a city? Why do we bother to live together? But that’s just the start.” The problem was going to grow worse until, as he put it, “you get to one.” A single employee to service the entire city, presumably with a focus on paying pensions. “I don’t know how far out you have to go until you get to one,” said Reed, “but it isn’t all that far.” At that point, if not before, the city would be nothing more than a vehicle to pay the retirement costs of its former workers. The only clear solution was if former city workers up and died, soon. But former city workers were, blessedly, living longer than ever.

This wasn’t a hypothetical scary situation, said Reed. “It’s a mathematical inevitability.”

http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2011/11/michael-lewis-201111#gotopage1
 
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Anonymous

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Tarkenton nails it:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204226204576601232986845102.html

Imagine the National Football League in an alternate reality. Each player's salary is based on how long he's been in the league. It's about tenure, not talent. The same scale is used for every player, no matter whether he's an All-Pro quarterback or the last man on the roster. For every year a player's been in this NFL, he gets a bump in pay. The only difference between Tom Brady and the worst player in the league is a few years of step increases. And if a player makes it through his third season, he can never be cut from the roster until he chooses to retire, except in the most extreme cases of misconduct.

Let's face the truth about this alternate reality: The on-field product would steadily decline. Why bother playing harder or better and risk getting hurt?

No matter how much money was poured into the league, it wouldn't get better. In fact, in many ways the disincentive to play harder or to try to stand out would be even stronger with more money.

Of course, a few wild-eyed reformers might suggest the whole system was broken and needed revamping to reward better results, but the players union would refuse to budge and then demonize the reform advocates: "They hate football. They hate the players. They hate the fans." The only thing that might get done would be building bigger, more expensive stadiums and installing more state-of-the-art technology. But that just wouldn't help.

If you haven't figured it out yet, the NFL in this alternate reality is the real -life American public education system. Teachers' salaries have no relation to whether teachers are actually good at their job—excellence isn't rewarded, and neither is extra effort. Pay is almost solely determined by how many years they've been teaching. That's it. After a teacher earns tenure, which is often essentially automatic, firing him or her becomes almost impossible, no matter how bad the performance might be. And if you criticize the system, you're demonized for hating teachers and not believing in our nation's children.

Perhaps no other sector of American society so demonstrates the failure of government spending and interference. We've destroyed individual initiative, individual innovation and personal achievement, and marginalized anyone willing to point it out. As one of my coaches used to say, "You don't get vast results with half-vast efforts!"
 
May 18, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Funny guy. Shame he quite possibly did as bad a job as governor as Gray Davis, and that's saying something. Now, it's Jerry Brown's turn to try to fix the mess.

Wonder where Scott is on all this? Hopefully on vacation, and not walking away from us again.

Well, that was predictable. I don't know why you longed for either the union basher angle or the tax cut assinity, the cure-alls for the wingnut nation. His reply was as predictable as the sun rising in the east tomorrow.
 
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Anonymous

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ChrisE said:
Well, that was predictable. I don't know why you longed for either the union basher angle or the tax cut assinity, the cure-alls for the wingnut nation. His reply was as predictable as the sun rising in the east tomorrow.

Long on insults and short on everything else. Sun rising in the East indeed.

You are only slightly less boring than Rhubroma.
 
May 18, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
Long on insults and short on everything else. Sun rising in the East indeed.

You are only slightly less boring than Rhubroma.

Yes, linking to your wingnut think tank websites spouting failed economic "theory" and your posts sprinkled with Ayn Rand BS is much more interesting.
 
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