World Swim Champs

[suipedali]

400+ dope tests, 40+ world records, no positives. Wow those new suit are good!

 

[scribe]

Cycling manufacturers have to be looking at those suits, too.

 

[dblueroom]

I think the suits are exaggerated... dont we see old suit wearers still win races? we'll just have to wait and see

 

[labratty]

Phelps is about the only old suit wearer who won anything. It is very had to make any objective assessment because the baseline has moved so much in a short time. It would be the same if the UCI removed the double triangle frame restrictions.
All sorts of performance changes would happen in the first year or two while things leveled out again, and while they were changing you would not know it if was the new bike or a new drug. Certainly some riders would make the most of it and claim the bike is the reason for their gains.

 

[runninboy]

Phelps is about the only old suit wearer who won anything. It is very had to make any objective assessment because the baseline has moved so much in a short time. It would be the same if the UCI removed the double triangle frame restrictions.
All sorts of performance changes would happen in the first year or two while things leveled out again, and while they were changing you would not know it if was the new bike or a new drug. Certainly some riders would make the most of it and claim the bike is the reason for their gains.

Phelps also has ADD so he can get a TUE for some nice Peds
here is a link for partial list
http://www.adhdhelp.org/stimulants.htm

and an interesting quote about the drugs used to treat ADD

"First it is important to realize that all of the stimulant drugs prescribed for ADHD/ADD are closely related to some illegal street drugs. These include dextroamphetamine (dexedrine) (street name: "dexies"), methamphetamine (street name: "crystal meth"), and, of course, cocaine. "

 

[BigBoat]

I think it was Mark Spitz that made the point "Its not these special suits, its the swimmers physically turning over faster in the water than they did before."
I think thats the comment that gave him the non-invite for the 2008 summer olympics...

Now read this quote by Spitz >>>

"They don't want to test for everything because there's tremendous pressure from the television networks because they want the television to have athletic competitions with the world record holders there for the finals. They want the medals not to be tainted in their value of accomplishment by winning them, and it's all about ratings and commercial selling of time and about money. And an International Olympic Committee has got their hand in the pockets of the network television people, so there's a tremendous conflict of interest in what they should do and what they're doing."

 

[gttim!]

400+ dope tests, 40+ world records, no positives. Wow those new suit are good!

It is the suits. Even Phelps got spanked in the 200 free. The glide on those suits is incredible, kind of like the benefit Lemond got from aerobars when he first used them. They had 4 swimmers in a race going under world record time in a couple of events. It was just insane.

The proof? Watch the world championships in the coming years. Hardly anybody will beat those records. Many of them could stand for decades.

Was anybody doping? In training? I don't know. But even when doping was rampant in swimming, they didn't have records falling like they did during these world championships.

 

[usedtobefast]

I think it was Mark Spitz that made the point "Its not these special suits, its the swimmers physically turning over faster in the water than they did before."
I think thats the comment that gave him the non-invite for the 2008 summer olympics...

Now read this quote by Spitz >>>

"They don't want to test for everything because there's tremendous pressure from the television networks because they want the television to have athletic competitions with the world record holders there for the finals. They want the medals not to be tainted in their value of accomplishment by winning them, and it's all about ratings and commercial selling of time and about money. And an International Olympic Committee has got their hand in the pockets of the network television people, so there's a tremendous conflict of interest in what they should do and what they're doing."

money changes everything. it is the standard anywhere on this planet. we
(humans) are driven to get better by a reward response. then that new record becomes the next hurdle in evolution. my 2 cents

 

[the truth.]

43 world records.
sure 400 urine samples taken but not 1 single
blood test!

if 'our' bikers can defeat the 50% rule- be sure the swimmers are at it!
43 world records? really- humans are humans. we have not evolved that much since the olympics

filthy water

 

[BigBoat]

43 world records.
sure 400 urine samples taken but not 1 single
blood test!

if 'our' bikers can defeat the 50% rule- be sure the swimmers are at it!
43 world records? really- humans are humans. we have not evolved that much since the olympics

filthy water

No doubt Phelps blood dopes with his own blood. But I think he is far cleaner than "Lance" has been. I do not hate Phelps. He seems like a nice guy.

 

[180mmCrank]

No doubt Phelps blood dopes with his own blood. But I think he is far cleaner than "Lance" has been. I do not hate Phelps. He seems like a nice guy.

Hey Big boat is that an expression of affection for a fellow human - are you going soft on us?

 

[runninboy]

No doubt Phelps blood dopes with his own blood. But I think he is far cleaner than "Lance" has been. I do not hate Phelps. He seems like a nice guy.

I dont hate Phelps either but I do think it is wrong that his coach manipulates the system so he can take amphetimenes legally and most of all i hate that all the "journalists" who rip cycling for drug use do not even bother to ask
"what meds do u take?"

 

[podilato]

I wonder if Mark Spitz gets all the Lemond-esque arguments about him being an axe grinder, sour grapes, he's just jealous, he should just shut up, etc, etc ?

 

[gttim!]

Now read this quote by Spitz >>>

"They don't want to test for everything because there's tremendous pressure from the television networks because they want the television to have athletic competitions with the world record holders there for the finals. They want the medals not to be tainted in their value of accomplishment by winning them, and it's all about ratings and commercial selling of time and about money. And an International Olympic Committee has got their hand in the pockets of the network television people, so there's a tremendous conflict of interest in what they should do and what they're doing."

Because swimming is such a huge cash cow for network television. Oh wait....

Football, baseball, basketball, and realy football overseas,that argument makes sense. Making it for swimming is like making it for curling or hockey.

 

[Cobblestones]

I think it was Mark Spitz that made the point "Its not these special suits, its the swimmers physically turning over faster in the water than they did before."
I think thats the comment that gave him the non-invite for the 2008 summer olympics...

Now read this quote by Spitz >>>

"They don't want to test for everything because there's tremendous pressure from the television networks because they want the television to have athletic competitions with the world record holders there for the finals. They want the medals not to be tainted in their value of accomplishment by winning them, and it's all about ratings and commercial selling of time and about money. And an International Olympic Committee has got their hand in the pockets of the network television people, so there's a tremendous conflict of interest in what they should do and what they're doing."

I think Spitz is dead-on. Other sports have to catch on. How you would beat the 25 year old WR of this lady, however, I have no idea.

 

[Danilot]

That, Sir, cannot be a woman.

 

[Cobblestones]

That, Sir, cannot be a woman.

It's Jarmila Kratochvilova, current WR holder 800m women. Following her WR in a 'training' run in Munich, she really lit it up later that year during the world championships in Helsinki with two gold and one silver.

The year was 1983.

 

[krebs303]

Swimming WR's have in the past have increased in hundredths of a second increments. Not by the 2-3 seconds seen in Rome. The new suits promote buoyancy. Lifting more of your body out of the water enabling you to go faster.
water being a 1000 times denser than air
Openwater competitions often have a separate wetsuit class for this reason. Swimming is more about technique than strength.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

I think Spitz is dead-on. Other sports have to catch on. How you would beat the 25 year old WR of this lady, however, I have no idea.

WOW, that is just insane. I got the chills when I opened up that pic and now it is probably going to haunt my dreams.

 

[Cobblestones]

WOW, that is just insane. I got the chills when I opened up that pic and now it is probably going to haunt my dreams.

So, when someone says 'doping levels the playing field', just remember that it also levels ... other stuff.

 

[Von Mises]

400+ dope tests, 40+ world records, no positives. Wow those new suit are good!

Not just world records. Even those who finished 20-30-40-50-60th places broke their national records, personal bests etc. It is hard to believe everyone simultaneously got heir hands on some super doping. These are suits.

 

[poupou]

Swimming WR's have in the past have increased in hundredths of a second increments. Not by the 2-3 seconds seen in Rome. The new suits promote buoyancy. Lifting more of your body out of the water enabling you to go faster.
water being a 1000 times denser than air
Openwater competitions often have a separate wetsuit class for this reason. Swimming is more about technique than strength.

Of course suits is very helpfull. But most of the swimmers have similar techniques, sometimes one or 2 can be more dominant but its unlikely, so strength becomes the key factor to win.

 

[krebs303]

Technique training in water becomes more important the more power training you do. With a greater potential in general power you are tempted to transfer this power into your stroke technique. This works only with a well done technique training. Otherwise all that power goes anywhere but not in the right direction.

 

[krebs303]

Swimming is one sport where the majority of competitors practice some form of resistance training. Although most competitive swimming distances might not be considered true endurance events, elite swimmers perform huge volumes of over-distance training. To determine whether adding resistance training to pool training might improve sprint-swim performance, Tanaka, et al. (1993) studied 24 experienced swimmers during 14 weeks of their competitive season. The swimmers were divided into two groups of 12 swimmers and matched for stroke specialities and performance. The two groups performed all swim training sessions together for the duration of the season, but in addition to the pool training, one group performed resistance training three days a week, on alternate days for eight weeks. The resistance training program was intended to simulate the muscles employed in front crawl swimming and utilized weight lifting machines as well as free weights. Swimmers performed three sets of 8-12 repetitions of the following exercises: lat pull downs, elbow extensions, bent arm flys, dips and chin ups. In order to maximize the resistance training effect, weights were progressively increased over the duration of the training period. Then both groups tapered for approximately two weeks prior to their major competition. The most important finding: resistance training did not improve sprint swim performance, despite the fact that those swimmers who combined resistance and swim training increased their strength by 25-35%. The extra strength gained from the resistance training program did not result in improved stroke mechanics.

 

[unsheath]

The proof? Watch the world championships in the coming years. Hardly anybody will beat those records. Many of them could stand for decades.

Which is why these records should be asterisked! The Mens 800m record was done by 6secs!! Farcical IMO!!

Of course, they could also just say it was a fast pool - or fast water!!