Worlds and Tour Champion is that a big deal?

[movingtarget]

I remember people saying Gilbert couldn't win a classic over 200km in 2008. Keep saying it, one day you might actually believe it. If Andy can win LBL, then so can Contador. Has not isn't the same as can not Contador has not won a classic, but he definitely can win one.

I don't mean Contador will never win a classic, just that he has not won one yet. But then neither did Indurain I don't think but his five consecutive TDF wins is very impressive plus the Giro win. Evans had a pretty late start to his grand tour career and think he can win more, it's just a matter of which one. His team have not made any plans yet because the routes for next year are yet to be released bit I think he would like another attempt at the Giro. Once again the amount of TT kms will be important to him as far as riding next years TDF but I think he will return to the TDF as that is the race that he has always been targetting and I think his sponsors etc.....will expect him to ride. I have a feeling that next year's Giro won't have much of a field. I think everyone will look to the TDF especially since many people doubted Evans would ever win and now that he has, I think that will only convince others that they also have a good chance. Basso may not have much opposition if he opts for the Giro again and Cunego may also have another shot after his improved ride in this year's TDF. I hope Menchov, Scarponi, Nibali and Rodriguez ride the TDF.

 

[Parrulo]

2013 Worlds will be in Florence, Italy. However Zomegan is in the organisation committee. So may be a very hard race
2014 worlds is in Spain. And for 2015, the bidders are Richmond in Virginia, USA and Oman.

my bad. i forgot about the florence ones.

still that means that the next 3 worlds(i am ignoring this year worlds) will be tough. plenty of opportunities for contador

 

[The Hitch]

I don't mean Contador will never win a classic, just that he has not won one yet. But then neither did Indurain I don't think but his five consecutive TDF wins is very impressive plus the Giro win. Evans had a pretty late start to his grand tour career and think he can win more, it's just a matter of which one. His team have not made any plans yet because the routes for next year are yet to be released bit I think he would like another attempt at the Giro. Once again the amount of TT kms will be important to him as far as riding next years TDF but I think he will return to the TDF as that is the race that he has always been targetting and I think his sponsors etc.....will expect him to ride. I have a feeling that next year's Giro won't have much of a field. I think everyone will look to the TDF especially since many people doubted Evans would ever win and now that he has, I think that will only convince others that they also have a good chance. Basso may not have much opposition if he opts for the Giro again and Cunego may also have another shot after his improved ride in this year's TDF. I hope Menchov, Scarponi, Nibali and Rodriguez ride the TDF.

If people wanted to go all out for the TDF this was the year seeing as Contador was unlikely to start, and then he was doing the Giro meaning he would be off form. And yet it had the best field its had in years. Hell if you had Ricco in there then it would arguably be as good as the TDF lineup, seeing as it had 6 out of 9 active gt winners including the 2 most succesful gt riders around, both active Tour de France winners.
It had the the top 3 riders period of last year - Purito, Contador, Nibali.

Contador is far more likely to be around next year. You already have Samuel Sanchez saying he would like to try the Giro. Italy has many top gt riders and you got to think that some if not most of them will go for the Giro (unless Scarponi and Nibali start getting ideas about how far their Giro performance could have taken them in France. Valverde is back so thats another top contender for the Tour. A lot of top contenders are going to look at the Giro and see a good opportunity, rather than fighting it out with 15 other contenders for 3rd place behind Al and Andy in July.

Rujano is likely going to be there, riders who want to peak for the Vuelta (like Anton this year) might be there and Contador is also doing the Vuelta so some could see it as their best chance to win a gt.

 

[kurtinsc]

Should Evans try to defend next year? Or should he focus on different races? I'd like to see him doing a few more classics.

He will defend... but I'd love for him to do something a bit different.

It would be cool to see him target the Ardennes, try to hold form through the Giro, take a nice vacation through June/July and then try to come back full steam for the Vuelta and try to hold on through Lombardia.

Probably would fade badly at the end of the Giro if he tried to do that, and fail badly at Lombardia, but it would be cool to see someone shoot for the two climbing monuments as well as two GT's.

More then likely he'll target either Paris-Nice or the Ardennes in the spring, then the Tour, with the Vuelta as fall back if the Tour isn't successful.

 

[Mich78BEL]

Those guys are from a different era, though. The races may be the same, but the sport is not.

If you told Coppi, for example, that the Tour winner was Australian, the World Champion was Norwegian, the best sprinter was British, the hottest young talent is Slovakian, four of the top teams were American, there were others from Russia and Kazahstan and there were top races in Adelaide, California, Oman, Qatar and Beijing, imagine what his reaction would have been.

Back then, a Swiss rider in the Giro was seen as exotic.

maybe, but you can compare how current riders are doing against their peers, how they dominate them or not

and i still think its possible for a rider to be top all year long, look at Gilbert

 

[movingtarget]

If people wanted to go all out for the TDF this was the year seeing as Contador was unlikely to start, and then he was doing the Giro meaning he would be off form. And yet it had the best field its had in years. Hell if you had Ricco in there then it would arguably be as good as the TDF lineup, seeing as it had 6 out of 9 active gt winners including the 2 most succesful gt riders around, both active Tour de France winners.
It had the the top 3 riders period of last year - Purito, Contador, Nibali.

Contador is far more likely to be around next year. You already have Samuel Sanchez saying he would like to try the Giro. Italy has many top gt riders and you got to think that some if not most of them will go for the Giro (unless Scarponi and Nibali start getting ideas about how far their Giro performance could have taken them in France. Valverde is back so thats another top contender for the Tour. A lot of top contenders are going to look at the Giro and see a good opportunity, rather than fighting it out with 15 other contenders for 3rd place behind Al and Andy in July.

Rujano is likely going to be there, riders who want to peak for the Vuelta (like Anton this year) might be there and Contador is also doing the Vuelta so some could see it as their best chance to win a gt.

What you are saying makes sense. Of course Contador should be favoured to win the TDF next year but I still think he won't walk away with the race as he did in in Giro. Riders like Nibali may also aim for the TDF podium as I expect Basso to return to the Giro. I just think that TDF next year could be another chaotic race with no one team controlling the race. I think they will go all out for a mountain route for the 2013 TDF for the anniversary race but 2012 might be a milder type of route to encourage another close finish, medium mountains etc and probably only one ITT again but of decent length. Evans will undoubtedly return to the TDF whether it's his best option or not.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

The WC was seriously devalued when it was moved to October. It does not mean as much as it used to because lots of riders skip it.

 

[woodie]

The WC was seriously devalued when it was moved to October. It does not mean as much as it used to because lots of riders skip it.

Right......Whatever you say.....

 

[movingtarget]

The WC was seriously devalued when it was moved to October. It does not mean as much as it used to because lots of riders skip it.

Even though the curse of the WC jersey seemed to be correct for a long time, you could not say that it has not brought out the best in Evans and Hushovd. Wearing it and winning it was obviously a boost for both of them.

 

[mad black]

Nah, never.

The greats in history are Anquetil, Hinault, Eddy Merckx, Indurain, Fausto Coppi, Bartali(remember the war destroyed their career somewhat) and Lance Armstrong. Contador may be part of those someday, but Cadel Evans never will.

None on your list has 2 Mountain Bike World Cup victories on his palmares. And quite frankly none of these guys (apart from Armstrong maybe) would stand a chance to win a single MTB race. The difference here is skills. Evans is one of the greats because he's the only mountain biker to ever win a grand tour on the road.

 

[Krebs cycle]

To be considered one of the greats, it is not enough to have an impressive palmares, IMO. You need to dominate. Dominate the way Coppi, Anquetil, Merckx, Hinault did. Win all year round, win classics + GTs + stage races, etc. Do that for more than 2-3 years, and you may be considered a great. Indurain, Armstrong, Contador, Evans don't qualify. Evans has only been winning major races last two years, sparsely too. Contador only really dominant in stage races. Some strong placings in hilly classics doesn't quailify, IMO.
As to the original question: is it a big deal? It's a huge. Not as huge as dominance described above, but huge nonetheless.

Times have changed. None of those greats you mentioned would be great according to your criteria if they happened to be born after 1975. However, I do agree that even today, you should have at least 2 or 3 tdf wins + 1 or 2 other GT wins + 2 or 3 major classics wins within an entire career to be considered a cycling "great".

So whilst I wouldn't consider Cadel a cycling "great" he is however, one of the most complete cyclists of our generation which is by far the most competitive in the history of the sport. He of course had the potential to have achieved 2 or 3 tdf wins but he needed the right team and better luck throughout his career. He didn't even get to start his first tour because of a broken collarbone and that experience at a younger age would have been valuable in later years.

He has also won the UCI pro-tour series, which means he IS the most complete rider of a generation because there is no other rider since Indurain that has won the world champs, tdf and been crowned the top ranked UCI rider in a season.

And at the risk of getting banished to the clinic, I cannot condone the achievements of Indurain, Armstrong and Contador on the grounds of association with doping. This is something that sets Cadel Evans apart and above any of those men.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

He has also won the UCI pro-tour series, which means he IS the most complete rider of a generation...

No, the most complete would be Laurent Jalabert.

And at the risk of getting banished to the clinic, I cannot condone the achievements of Indurain, Armstrong and Contador on the grounds of association with doping. This is something that sets Cadel Evans apart and above any of those men.

That is why he rides for Rihs and is managed by Rominger.

 

[Barracuda]

Nah, never.

The greats in history are Anquetil, Hinault, Eddy Merckx, Indurain, Fausto Coppi, Bartali(remember the war destroyed their career somewhat) and Lance Armstrong. Contador may be part of those someday, but Cadel Evans never will.

Ahh, forgive me if i am mistaken but I dont recall those guys winning any mountain bike worlds and then successfully being at that top of the game in road cycling also.......

Could be wrong !!

 

[42coppi]

Cadel

So the lad just needs to become the Lord of the Rings in LOndon 2012 then ??
How come he isnt riding any post Tour crits ?

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

Ahh, forgive me if i am mistaken but I dont recall those guys winning any mountain bike worlds and then successfully being at that top of the game in road cycling also.......

They were too busy winning monuments.

 

[AussieGoddess]

So the lad just needs to become the Lord of the Rings in LOndon 2012 then ??
How come he isnt riding any post Tour crits ?

he is riding 1 or 2 ... not many though.

they had a list in one of the other threads, and he was definitely riding one of them

 

[Franklin]

You forgot Zoetemelk

And Jan Janssen!

 

[El Pistolero]

Ahh, forgive me if i am mistaken but I dont recall those guys winning any mountain bike worlds and then successfully being at that top of the game in road cycling also.......

Could be wrong !!

Who cares about mountainbiking?

 

[auscyclefan94]

Who cares about mountainbiking?

LOL, you are so naive.

I have only become interested in mountain biking this year. I am finding it really entertaining. It actually is a big deal btw.

 

[El Pistolero]

No, I'm not. I just don't give damn and it doesn't make you great for winning something in mountainbiking and in the Tour.

Rasmussen did it first anyway, so Cuddles wasn't the first. You know, that skinny dude who beat the living hell out of Evans

Becoming world champion in mountainbike and winning one Tour does not equal you to Eddy Merckx and never will. I think I rather win 6 Grand Tours then the World cup in mountainbike.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Rasmussen never won, don't give me the bull**** that he did.

 

[El Pistolero]

Rasmussen never won, don't give me the bull**** that he did.

Rasmussen is a world champion in cross country and would have won the Tour of 2007 Even I can admit that.

 

[Parrulo]

None on your list has 2 Mountain Bike World Cup victories on his palmares. And quite frankly none of these guys (apart from Armstrong maybe) would stand a chance to win a single MTB race. The difference here is skills. Evans is one of the greats because he's the only mountain biker to ever win a grand tour on the road.

 

[El Pistolero]

Besides, what cyclist on the road would ever want to go to mountainbiking lol? These guys aren't idiots you know.

 

[Bumeington]

None on your list has 2 Mountain Bike World Cup victories on his palmares. And quite frankly none of these guys (apart from Armstrong maybe) would stand a chance to win a single MTB race. The difference here is skills. Evans is one of the greats because he's the only mountain biker to ever win a grand tour on the road.

Can we have some objectivity please? Given that the first mass produced mountain bike came out in 1981 I think it's unreasonable to hold lack of MTB palmares against the likes of Merckx, besides he has plenty of cyclo-cross wins, so your point is moot.

Fact is 24 cyclists in history have won more GTs than Evans, so it's a bit ridiculous to skip him above not only all the riders with 1 GT win, but also all but 5 or 6 of those with more GTs than him on the basis of a world championship win and some MTB?!?!? He hasn't even won a monument, not that that's anything to be ashamed of but he is clearly not in the top 10 cyclists of all time, top 10 in the current peloton I could give you