Worlds USA

[TRDean]

Folks reading this forum are mostly cyclists, and odds on posses a body type that doesn't lend itself to football codes. However Rugby Union players and League players would definitely last and excel if they swapped codes, physical abilities are similar.

As for a specific example...Ben Roethlisberger...I think he has a pretty ring

The physical abilities are not similar...rugby players don't average 240-300 lbs. They are not running 4.4 40 times either. I have watch both sports and while I most definitely respect rugby...and how tough those players are...they are not in the same category as NFL players. Just imagine a stacked 290 lb man running at you full speed (4.8 40 time) with the intent to take your head off.

TFF put some great pictures up...and there are more...hell I'd add Bob Sanders...Albert Haynesworth...Shawn Merriman...each one of which wants to demolish the guy in front of him.

 

[Anonymous]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkbjtAfpNc4
note the lack of padding

meh...No disrespect to Rugby Union or Aussie rules football, but I honestly don't think you understand (as TR points out above) just how big and FAST many of those guys are.

They used to not have padding in the NFL years ago. You can go check the death toll yourself from that period. I am fairly certain that the death toll in rugby is negligible. That was not the case for American football. That is why they instituted the safety equipment. I guess maybe our guys just hit harder?

Anyway, I'll take my chances with someone like Julius Peppers who is 6'7 283lbs, and can run the 40 in 4.68 seconds against ANY of those guys. Again, heads would roll, literally.

 

[ggusta]

the truth is, american sports fans do not really follow bike racing. we have 63,000 licensed riders of all types in the usa. pretty small for a country this size. how many play the big sports? i don't know myself, but you could look it up. it is surely a much larger number of participants. just baseball/softball will dwarf cycling. the talent pool is shallow by comparison. our really good riders are world class, but how many are there? at the very top 10 women, and maybe
20 men, give or take. we do well with the good ones we have, but it is a job.
an athlete can make much more money doing anything else. i have confess,
watching a time trial on tv can be damn boring. they can be exciting sometimes,but John Q Public is just going to glaze over. unless you understand
the sport and all it's machinations, most folks just change the channel. i could go on, but enough for now.

+1

That's really all there is to say about it.

Every small town can field a softball league of adults but competitive cycling isn't even a blip on the radar. (Except for He who cannot be named.) For our big names to pass on it, it probably comes down to time and money rather than some sense of national pride.

 

[twothirds]

The physical abilities are not similar...rugby players don't average 240-300 lbs. They are not running 4.4 40 times either. I have watch both sports and while I most definitely respect rugby...and how tough those players are...they are not in the same category as NFL players. Just imagine a stacked 290 lb man running at you full speed (4.8 40 time) with the intent to take your head off.

TFF put some great pictures up...and there are more...hell I'd add Bob Sanders...Albert Haynesworth...Shawn Merriman...each one of which wants to demolish the guy in front of him.

So the guys are capable of running for 5 seconds at a time and then taking a minutes rest. The football players wouldn't last 5 minutes in a rugby match.

 

[TRDean]

So the guys are capable of running for 5 seconds at a time and then taking a minutes rest. The football players wouldn't last 5 minutes in a rugby match.

Very funny...stupid but funny.

 

[Astana1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkbjtAfpNc4
note the lack of padding

Rugby and AFL players are tough. But they don't hit with same inertia and violence that you see in American Football. I've talked to many Rugby players about this and the human body simply cannot hit like that without padding.

Thems are the facts...

 

[Astana1]

So the guys are capable of running for 5 seconds at a time and then taking a minutes rest. The football players wouldn't last 5 minutes in a rugby match.

Seriously. The more you people talk the more ignorant and stupid you appear. A minute is a gross overstatement. And in football you're 100% on every play. Not the case in Rugby or AF.

If they conditioned themselves for Rugby they would be fine. But Rugby players would probably never be big enough or fast enough to reach equivalent success in football.

 

[Anonymous]

So the guys are capable of running for 5 seconds at a time and then taking a minutes rest. The football players wouldn't last 5 minutes in a rugby match.

Actually, Dhani Jones an NFL player practiced and even played in a match in London, and he lasted just fine. Funny thing is, he is just a mediocre LB, and not all that big.

I am not saying rugby is a sport for wimps. I actually respect the talent level and physical ability. What I find amusing is the assertion that because NFL players wear pads, they are somehow wussies. That is just stupid, no other way to put it.

 

[Anonymous]

Seriously. The more you people talk the more ignorant and stupid you appear. A minute is a gross overstatement. And in football you're 100% on every play. Not the case in Rugby or AF.

If they conditioned themselves for Rugby they would be fine. But Rugby players would probably never be big enough or fast enough to reach equivalent success in football.

Exactly, if someone like Ray Lewis conditioned himself for rugby, he would destroy people there like he does here. You take someone like Meriman 4.56 40, 6'6 270, and he could literally kill people without pads. Running for 4.46 seconds isn't the point. It is the fact that speed is carrying 270 pounds of weight, and smashing into something else that makes the speed important.

Its just stupid to think NFL players couldn't play rugby. And while I am sure there are rugby and AF players who could play in the NFL if so trained. I am willing to bet the number is far less than the other way around.

 

[TRDean]

Exactly, if someone like Ray Lewis conditioned himself for rugby, he would destroy people there like he does here. You take someone like Meriman 4.56 40, 6'6 270, and he could literally kill people without pads. Running for 4.46 seconds isn't the point. It is the fact that speed is carrying 270 pounds of weight, and smashing into something else that makes the speed important.

Its just stupid to think NFL players couldn't play rugby. And while I am sure there are rugby and AF players who could play in the NFL if so trained. I am willing to bet the number is far less than the other way around.

Hey TFF...the Panthers SUCK!!! Delhomme is a class 1 looser. LOL

 

[TRDean]

Back on track here...

I think the US team did OK. I really don't care that the "big" name guys didn't compete. I think that the only thing they should have done was they should have placed a rider in the early move. Any one of them could have done it. They would have gotten the face time and still had some riders finish in the 50s. I think there is a group of younger riders coming up who will place more emphasis on the worlds and the US will be a stronger nation. We shall see.

Glad to see Tim Duggan really getting back into form.

 

[Anonymous]

Hey TFF...the Panthers SUCK!!! Delhomme is a class 1 looser. LOL

Next you'll tell me that water is wet...

The bad news is that I have season tickets.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Back on track here...

I think the US team did OK. I really don't care that the "big" name guys didn't compete. I think that the only thing they should have done was they should have placed a rider in the early move. Any one of them could have done it. They would have gotten the face time and still had some riders finish in the 50s. I think there is a group of younger riders coming up who will place more emphasis on the worlds and the US will be a stronger nation. We shall see.

Glad to see Tim Duggan really getting back into form.

They did have their b-team in so did relatively well.

 

[karlboss]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=klosterman/070319

you mean this shawne merriman? and thats 4.6 for 40 yards. Lomu was 265lbs and 10.8 for 100m...apparently about 4.7 for 40 m

 

[Anonymous]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=klosterman/070319

you mean this shawne merriman? and thats 4.6 for 40 yards. Lomu was 265lbs and 10.8 for 100m...apparently about 4.7 for 40 m

One guy that size, thats all you got? ANYWAY, those are average stats for anything but a DT or NG or maybe and DE in a 3-4. One guy, hahahahahahah! I am sure he would make a great back-up for a real defensive player.

 

[Cloxxki]

To end the dispute, USA and RestOfWorld will each draft one ball team. Two matches will be played, one AF, one Rugby. Much different strategies, unlikely people being out-run.
Should make great television as well.

In car racing, the off-season features stars-only races in alternative vehicles, suc as in Wembley and Bercy. You'll see true talent percevering. Schumacher and Loeb have a hard time finding a match, be it touring cars, go-carts or buggies.

 

[twothirds]

Seriously. The more you people talk the more ignorant and stupid you appear. A minute is a gross overstatement. And in football you're 100% on every play. Not the case in Rugby or AF.

If they conditioned themselves for Rugby they would be fine. But Rugby players would probably never be big enough or fast enough to reach equivalent success in football.

I don't mean any disrespect to football players. I have two cousins that were starting a starting DE and LB for a top university team. I trained with football players when I was track racing before going back to school.

I've also played both sports at a competitive level as well, so I'm not as ignorant as you think.

Any athlete can condition themselves for another sports if it requires similar athletic attributes and skills. Cavendish started on the track and conditioned himself for the road, and Wiggins from the track as well. It just takes time.

 

[Anonymous]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=klosterman/070319

you mean this shawne merriman? and thats 4.6 for 40 yards. Lomu was 265lbs and 10.8 for 100m...apparently about 4.7 for 40 m

One other thing. I just watched several videos of him. Funny, he was bigger than anyone he was playing with. He wouldn't be nearly the biggest guy in an NFL game. He did look like he would be a good LB though.

 

[US Patent Exploding Cyclist]

Having played both sports I can say that Rugby Players have to be tougher and overall in better condition, but Football is a much more violent sport and has a much different, read "more explosive", kind of athlete.

If the comparison between the two sports is based on measurable athletic stats such as speed, strength, and agility than NFL players are superior to the majority of World Class Rugby players. I can't say that an NFL player would definitely "dominate" a Rugby match, but based on measurable athletic abilities, speed/strength/agility, it seams that that would be possible.

As for the original topic, it would've been nice to see a stronger USA team at the worlds. I'm new to cycling and would have enjoyed having an American to root for during the road race. It was nice to see Zirbel hold the lead in the TT for a while. In my opnion the National Champion should have to represent their country at the Worlds, otherwise what's the point of racing Nationals if you won't go to Worlds? People can be disappointed in the "Big Dogs" for not going, I'm more dissapointed with Zabriskie and Hincapie.

 

[Anonymous]

Having played both sports I can say that Rugby Players have to be tougher and overall in better condition, but Football is a much more violent sport and has a much different, read "more explosive", kind of athlete.

If the comparison between the two sports is based on measurable athletic stats such as speed, strength, and agility than NFL players are superior to the majority of World Class Rugby players. I can't say that an NFL player would definitely "dominate" a Rugby match, but based on measurable athletic abilities, speed/strength/agility, it seams that that would be possible.

As for the original topic, it would've been nice to see a stronger USA team at the worlds. I'm new to cycling and would have enjoyed having an American to root for during the road race. It was nice to see Zirbel hold the lead in the TT for a while. In my opnion the National Champion should have to represent their country at the Worlds, otherwise what's the point of racing Nationals if you won't go to Worlds? People can be disappointed in the "Big Dogs" for not going, I'm more dissapointed with Zabriskie and Hincapie.

Yea, apparently he had more important things to do, like buy a car...

 

[kukiniloa]

Blame USA Cycling??

Probably not for fielding a weak Men's RR Team at World's....

but if you've ever raced sanctioned events, you'd know this is one messed up organization! But that's another thread!

 

[Astana1]

No idea on Hincapie. But Zabriskie raced worlds like the previous four years and this year he took off because of tendinitis in his achilles. There's only like four or five interviews with him available open source to confirm that.

I think guys like Reggie Bush, Ladanian Tomlinson, or Fast Willie Parker would run circles around most Rugby players. But most linemen would need to totally recondition themselves to last a full Rugby match.

 

[twothirds]

we need to start a cross sports athlete analysis/comparison thread

 

[runninboy]

Rugby and AFL players are tough. But they don't hit with same inertia and violence that you see in American Football. I've talked to many Rugby players about this and the human body simply cannot hit like that without padding.

Thems are the facts...

Just to illustrate the above quote.
I played for a good high school football team, the same school that produced John Elway. My first year we were watching film and this linebacker, a rather large Samoan named Frank Malamalauena (230 lbs and ran a 4.5 40)shattered a wide receivers face mask & helmet with a vicious hit.
I quit the team that day and went back to track(my position had been wide reciever
Frank went to UCLA and broke his neck, however even with a broken neck( i think they used metal rods) he made it to the NFL.
the short bursts of power & intensity involved in American football would be lethal if not for the strength of the athletes involved.
Just the other day a running back dropped a 270 weight on his larynx, the doctor said because of his strong neck he will recover to play again but it would have been a lethal blow to the average man

 

[runninboy]

Probably not for fielding a weak Men's RR Team at World's....

but if you've ever raced sanctioned events, you'd know this is one messed up organization! But that's another thread!

agreed
Chris Horner has always been a good rider for worlds and yet the idiots always seem to pass him over for some lesser riders who end up dropping out or placing 110th. I like Jason McCartney and the other guys but in a one day race like worlds or the Olympics the one American who should be at the top of the selection is Horner.