You are clean. What SHOULD you say in interviews?

[daveyt]

If they dont know anything about doping, then how do they know the sport is now clean?

If the riders in question are totally in the dark about doping as you claim, then they are still guilty of lying since they are saying stuff they actually have no idea about, and passing it off as facts.

Didn't think that one through, did you?

I wasn't talking about a clean rider trying to convince us the sport was clean, I was talking about a clean rider trying to convince us HE was clean. Is it really a requirement that he finds out what others past and present were or are up to and spills the beans to prove he is clean? And if so, how crap is that on our rider?

 

[Granville57]

I think Phinney's "finishing bottle" rant was a good example of what a clean rider would / should / could say. And he does have standing, from his old man and his natural ability. But I do not think any more than a generalised complaint is going to work.


I think a rider could drop a hint - as Phinney did - and hope the media take time out from hounding continental teams about whether they are hiring some pariah rider or not to actually go and do some real journalism, and follow up on his hint.

Some good points there. A good indicator as to just how weak the journalistic follow-up on Phinney's claims about finishing bottles, was evident in the fact that JV claimed to be unaware of what Taylor had said until it was pointed out to him by Digger on Twitter well after the fact (October, 2012 was when the Phinney made those remarks).

I realize that this sets up JV for more ridicule as whether or not that was really the first he had hear of it (as he claimed), but that brings us back to the weak investigative journalism. Surely if a journalist, ANY JOURNALIST, had asked JV about Phinney's remarks prior to that twitter exchange with Digger (in May, 2014), then it would quite easy to nail him on it. But I've yet to see any journalist claim that.

***crickets***


Having just reread Phinney's comments in their entirety, I think this really is the best example of what a "clean" rider could be expected to say regarding PEDs, etc. Too many good points to quote here. I was suggest that everyone take another look at his remarks.
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13076/Taylor-Phinney-Interview-Getting-the-pill-culture-out-of-the-sport.aspx


And good for Shane Stokes for pursuing this to begin with. He doesn't get enough credit. More often than not, he puts his colleagues to shame.



A couple of relevant tweets

‏@Vaughters
@Digger_forum @OliCoyle but I think I just answered you. You're the first to ask me about the Phinney interview.

10:50 AM - 4 May 2014

https://twitter.com/Vaughters/status/462982680976437248

@Vaughters
@Digger_forum @OliCoyle No, I do too, not as much as I used to, but I do.
I was never interviewed on the topic when Phinneys article ran.

10:50 AM - 4 May 2014

https://twitter.com/Vaughters/status/462982537313124352

 

[Archibald]

“From there, there is a whole argument about things like cortisone; people can invent a knee injury and get a TUE for that substance. Using that would definitely enhance your performance.

“If it was up to me, I would say if you need cortisone, you shouldn’t be racing. You should get that injury fixed and then you can come back, but you are not racing any more in the meantime.

“It is the same thing with painkillers or something like Sudafed. If you wake up with a fever and you need to take some sort of painkillers to be racing, then you probably shouldn’t be racing in the first place and your team doctor should be worried about your health and send you home.”

Chris Froome TUE, anyone...

 

[Digger]

David Millar on AC - Wiggins on landis and lance...dan martin on impey, Christian on landis, talansky on lance, weltz on lance...those are examples of what not to say...and beg the question why clean riders or staff would say such things...

the rogers positive was a disgrace - riders like cadel welcoming him back in, in fact everyone really...I see no evidence from riders' reactions that things are different - the omerta is still as bad as ever, and this is evidenced by the cases of frank, ac, valverde, rogers etc.

 

[sniper]

David Millar on AC - Wiggins on landis and lance...dan martin on impey, Christian on landis, talansky on lance, weltz on lance...those are examples of what not to say...and beg the question why clean riders or staff would say such things...

the rogers positive was a disgrace - riders like cadel welcoming him back in, in fact everyone really...I see no evidence from riders' reactions that things are different - the omerta is still as bad as ever, and this is evidenced by the cases of frank, ac, valverde, rogers etc.

talansky on di luca.

i think di luca was very close to the truth with his 90% estimate. common sense really.
i think 10% cleans is in fact quite a positive figure.

 

[sniper]

...
Having just reread Phinney's comments in their entirety, I think this really is the best example of what a "clean" rider could be expected to say regarding PEDs, etc.

indeed he's making many good points.
this struck me as interesting:

The picture he paints is one of a general dependency, saying that on the start line of a major classic many riders will have pills tucked into their shorts.

if it's so common, though, I wonder why Race Radio appeared not to be informed about it?
acted pretty surprised about Wiggins having a pill tucked into his shorts.

@TheRaceRadio
What is the pill in Wiggins shorts?

 

[Digger]

JV later in that twitter exchange said himself and taylor have had issues in the past and weren't exactly buddies - he said in hindsight he should have said something along the lines of yes I support his views (as far as I remember that's what he said)

what I found telling was jv saying that the anti doping response to someone getting popped can depend on your friendship, or not, with the guy in question....


personally I call this omerta.

 

[daveyt]

So to believe someone is clean, we would want them to be cleaner than the rules demand?

Don't get me wrong, I am uncomfortable with finishing bottles and would like to see them out of the sport... but does the use of one in itself make a rider dirty? Do we assume that a relaxed attitude to legal drugs means they will automatically be on the banned stuff?

Are crushed up caffiene tablets dodgey but those espresso shots inside chocolate fine? That's a mind bender.

 

[Digger]

The question I have always asked is this: why would a so called clean rider praise, defend and welcome back a known doper?

 

[daveyt]

The question I have always asked is this: why would a so called clean rider praise, defend and welcome back a known doper?

I think in todays peleton there is no reason to welcome people back from doping convictions. Especially those that don't show contrition and spill the beans on where they got the stuff from and who else might be on it.

 

[westerner]

If you are racing clean then you can tweet callout dopers like William Goodfellow did

https://twitter.com/willthespill102/status/383207479901184000

"Hematocrit is no longer the face of doping. Hormer rode the vuelta at a 41...bull**** he did. "

Except for... William just tested positive for darbEPO and clen

Young guy who raced on the Canadian National team as a Jr and a u23, also a university grad. But obviously not one of the 'cool' kids.

 

[Granville57]

Young guy who raced on the Canadian National team as a Jr and a u23, also a university grad.

But not very bright.

He seems to have been confusing hematocrit with age.


Here's the link to his own doping:
http://www.canadiancyclist.com/dailynews.php?id=28759

The Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport (CCES) announced today that William Goodfellow, a cycling athlete, received a two-year sanction for an anti-doping rule violation. The athlete’s urine sample, collected during in-competition doping control on August 24, 2014, revealed the presence of clenbuterol and darbepoetin (a synthetic form of erythropoietin, also known as EPO).

In response to the CCES' notification of the adverse analytical finding, Mr. Goodfellow waived his right to a hearing and accepted a sanction of two years ineligibility from sport, terminating August 24, 2016.

Remember this gem?
http://www.cyclingcanada.ca/sport/cycling/news/cycling-canada-publishes-findings-of-national-consultation-into-doping/

10-29-14
“No organized system or culture of doping in Canadian cycling” indicates independent report

 

[Granville57]

Wow! Upon closer inspection, this guy is a major douche.

@willthespill102
19 Sep 2013

As long as sagan doesn't have problems with the vampires, he can do as many wheelies as he wants, if not hell be another arrogant fraud!
https://twitter.com/willthespill102/status/380695587726716929

@willthespill102
26 Sep 2013

lol aicar and genetic manipulations, true gold. Horner has lost 20lbs since his saturn days
https://twitter.com/willthespill102/status/383212274573246464

@willthespill102
26 Sep 2013

@Ty_Hamilton tyler congrats on your book. You have my respect forever. Wut do u think of horner?
https://twitter.com/willthespill102/status/383213153221218304

@willthespill102
26 Sep 2013

@hornerakg hey chris. Can you also tell us how much weight you lost since your saturn days?
https://twitter.com/willthespill102/status/383214142548500480

What a complete tool.

The face of the new generation!

Goodfellow most recently rode for the Silber Pro Cycling team managed by Gord Fraser. His best result in 2014 was 33rd in the Canadian Time Trial Championships. He did not finish the Tour of Alberta, Nationals Road Race, GP Cycliste Saguenay, Winston-Salem Classic or Philadelphia Cycling Classic races.

 

[westerner]

Remember this gem?
http://www.cyclingcanada.ca/sport/cycling/news/cycling-canada-publishes-findings-of-national-consultation-into-doping/[/QUOTE]

10-29-14
“No organized system or culture of doping in Canadian cycling” indicates independent report



Interesting conclusion after interviewing 21 mostly clean athletes (32 people in total)

Especially when this was found in that report.

• Two interviewees independently provided information that a former Canadian sports administrator had assisted Canadian riders in obtaining PEDs.

http://www.canadiancyclist.com/dailynews.php?id=28643&title=cycling-canada-doping-consultation-report-key-findings

 

[armchairclimber]

So, our clean GT winner must acknowledge that the sport is far from clean and be clear that dopers are still getting away with it.
He must specifically call out riders that he suspects of doping.
He must invite testers to test him pretty much every day and he should refer people to his website where he posts all his numbers.

Have I missed anything? He'd probably best not profess to be as clean as a whistle himself. He'd look a right tool

 

[doperhopper]

So, our clean GT winner must acknowledge that the sport is far from clean and be clear that dopers are still getting away with it.
He must specifically call out riders that he suspects of doping.
He must invite testers to test him pretty much every day and he should refer people to his website where he posts all his numbers.

Have I missed anything? He'd probably best not profess to be as clean as a whistle himself. He'd look a right tool

at least explain how it's possible to beat this huge army of hardline dopers clean (hope the margin was not unbelievably big), and remember you can only go so far with pillows, cadence and other marginal gains

 

[daveyt]

at least explain how it's possible to beat this huge army of hardline dopers clean (hope the margin was not unbelievably big), and remember you can only go so far with pillows, cadence and other marginal gains

Which just leaves raw talent and hard work? Yeah, people will believe that alright.

 

[westerner]

Greg Henderson ‏@Greghenderson1 19h19 hours ago
@dimspace I started 2012 tdf at 46 and finished at 39. HTC. Would be nice to Inc haematocrit during a GT.

https://twitter.com/Greghenderson1/status/538812423030198274

 

[The Hitch]

So, our clean GT winner must acknowledge that the sport is far from clean and be clear that dopers are still getting away with it.
He must specifically call out riders that he suspects of doping.
He must invite testers to test him pretty much every day and he should refer people to his website where he posts all his numbers.

Have I missed anything? He'd probably best not profess to be as clean as a whistle himself. He'd look a right tool

And why do you ridicule that?

Imagine 2 politicians are asked by a journalist how they could afford some brand new Ferrari that cost 200k when his yearly salary is only 100k.

1 says that there is no longer such a thing as "corruption" in politics, as the human race is more honest now, he feels sorry for those cynics who can't trust their politicians and finishes with the closer "now feck off you ****er".

The other explains that he understands that with the expenses scandal and general history of corruption in politics, people are going to be cynical when they find out their politicians are living beyond their means. He says it is necessary for such caution to exist otherwise corrupt politicians will always be able to succeed. Nevertheless he explains how he managed to fund the car (it was second hand and the previous owner died in a crash), privately gives the journalist the phone number of the guy who sold it to him so he can interview him and see if the story checks out and offers to show his fianancial records.


You think both are equally worthy of trust?

 

[armchairclimber]

I think you are mis-understanding me Hitch (not for the first time). I wasn't ridiculing, I was just summing up. My last remark, that he's better not profess to be clean, was in jest...because he would start to come across as a pious, sanctimonious, holier than thou pain... especially given that he is basically saying that he beats the dopers whilst clean.

As it happens, I think that it is a good template for a rider to adopt, if he's a clean GT winner. It's what Wiggo should have done.

 

[Benotti69]

I think you are mis-understanding me Hitch (not for the first time). I wasn't ridiculing, I was just summing up. My last remark, that he's better not profess to be clean, was in jest...because he would start to come across as a pious, sanctimonious, holier than thou pain... especially given that he is basically saying that he beats the dopers whilst clean.

As it happens, I think that it is a good template for a rider to adopt, if he's a clean GT winner. It's what Wiggo should have done.

you forgot fraudulent, hypocritcal, phony, lying, two faced...........

 

[armchairclimber]

er, WTF are you on about Benotti? Who are you referring to? Hitch gets things wrong now and again but he ain't that bad.

 

[Granville57]

I'm no longer here. I've just been banned.

............................

 

[Granville57]

Have I missed anything?

Well, since Nibali was the inspiration for this thread, we need to consider more than just the words they speak, but also the company they keep.

The main problem with anything that Nibali might say regarding doping and dopers, is that he works for Vino.

So there's that...

 

[armchairclimber]

Nibali wasn't the sole inspiration actually, though he might have been the most immediate one, I concede. I was just struck by the thought that there isn't much for the clean cyclist to say that the dopers haven't already poisoned. But I take your point.