State of the Peloton 2024

[Bolder]

Toelhoek and Bonnamour are probably just coincidental, but what I see are two mid-tier pros who got a bit over their skis, no? Outside of MAL (and maybe Nairo), the top-tier riders have been staying out of trouble. I keep waiting for a big fish to be caught but maybe that's just wishful thinking. I actually don't think the UCI or WADA etc are engaged in any cover up, but that these guys are very detail oriented, so we won't see Vingegaard missing a vampires' visit again...

 

[theyoungest]

Toelhoek and Bonnamour are probably just coincidental, but what I see are two mid-tier pros who got a bit over their skis, no? Outside of MAL (and maybe Nairo), the top-tier riders have been staying out of trouble. I keep waiting for a big fish to be caught but maybe that's just wishful thinking. I actually don't think the UCI or WADA etc are engaged in any cover up, but that these guys are very detail oriented, so we won't see Vingegaard missing a vampires' visit again...

When some smaller fish are caught, the focus in cycling always goes to the big fish, with the assumption that they must be doing it as well. There is actually no logic behind this. I'm not a chess expert, but I don't think people question Magnus Carlsen because there are some lesser players who cheat.

Yes, you could argue that the top riders are more focused on detail and so would be better at evading the doping authorities, but you would think that at least one of them would make a mistake while micro dosing at some point. You know, at least once. Mistakes are human. It can't be that Bonnamour got caught just because apart from a lesser rider he's also a less skilled doper.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/op...s-are-still-gaming-the-system-a-la-armstrong/

That gives the UCI a big headache, but now it'll be full gas racing all the time!

Salas got his ban lifted by a Spanish court back in 2019, but it was later reinstated by CAS.

Spanish rider has four-year doping ban reinstated

Ibai Salas hasn't raced since the summer of 2018 and will not be allowed to again until 2021.

www.cyclingweekly.com

CAS finds Ibai Salas Zorrozua guilty of an anti-doping rule violation; imposes four-year period of ineligibility

www.tas-cas.org

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Salas got his ban lifted by a Spanish court back in 2019, but it was later reinstated by CAS.

Spanish rider has four-year doping ban reinstated

Ibai Salas hasn't raced since the summer of 2018 and will not be allowed to again until 2021.

www.cyclingweekly.com

CAS finds Ibai Salas Zorrozua guilty of an anti-doping rule violation; imposes four-year period of ineligibility

www.tas-cas.org

However it seems a different court later exonerated him, but since he never made a comeback, I think it's fair to say the case still ultimately ruined his career.

Spanish court rules biological passport not valid for Salas' doping ban

Former Burgos-BH rider's four-year ban overturned

www.cyclingnews.com

 

[Armchair cyclist]

CQ's summary of the ping pong match:

The Spanish federation advised Ibai SALAS in June 2018 of anomalies in his biological passport data between January and August 2017. In October 2018 he was suspended for 3 years and 9 months, until 3 July 2022, but this suspension was, after an appeal, lifted by the Spanish TAD in February 2019. WADA appealed this ruling at the TAS in Lausanne. In August 2020 the TAS pronounced a suspension of 4 years, until 4 August 2024, and cancellation of all his results between 25 January 2017 and 4 August 2020. However, in October 2020 a Spanish Court in Madrid ruled that a biological passport can not be used to proof the use of doping products and cleared SALAS. WADA appealed this ruling at the Spanish National Court but the appeal was rejected on 19 January 2023.

 

[Rob5091]

So in Spain there is now legal precedent for using the biological passport as the only ground for a doping offence. Unless a banned product is detected the passport can only be used as grounds for further investigation not a ban.
As Spain is in the EU, is this applicable in the rest of the EU? Can Bonnamour demand to know what has been found as CN wrote " His ADRV is listed as "Use of Prohibited Methods and/or Prohibited Substances".

 

[Rob5091]

Tolhoek taking steriods is a dumb thing to do. Taking steriods in November too, seems an odd thing. Is the reason a hunt for a team for 2024?

 

[Ilmaestro99]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1755525291651318254

View: https://twitter.com/AlexanderKamp1/status/1755525291651318254?t=_pnBr0cAAvyOYvU0Zuspog&s=19

 

[Bolder]

When some smaller fish are caught, the focus in cycling always goes to the big fish, with the assumption that they must be doing it as well. There is actually no logic behind this. I'm not a chess expert, but I don't think people question Magnus Carlsen because there are some lesser players who cheat.

Yes, you could argue that the top riders are more focused on detail and so would be better at evading the doping authorities, but you would think that at least one of them would make a mistake while micro dosing at some point. You know, at least once. Mistakes are human. It can't be that Bonnamour got caught just because apart from a lesser rider he's also a less skilled doper.

Good points.

 

[Netserk]

When some smaller fish are caught, the focus in cycling always goes to the big fish, with the assumption that they must be doing it as well. There is actually no logic behind this. I'm not a chess expert, but I don't think people question Magnus Carlsen because there are some lesser players who cheat.

Yes, you could argue that the top riders are more focused on detail and so would be better at evading the doping authorities, but you would think that at least one of them would make a mistake while micro dosing at some point. You know, at least once. Mistakes are human. It can't be that Bonnamour got caught just because apart from a lesser rider he's also a less skilled doper.

Of course there is. This kind of deflection against suspicion is age old. Yes, the strongest riders are of course more likely to have benefitted from performance enhancing drugs than the scrubs of the peloton. That was true with Armstrong, true with Sky and true now.

 

[kingjr]

Of course there is. This kind of deflection against suspicion is age old. Yes, the strongest riders are of course more likely to have benefitted from performance enhancing drugs than the scrubs of the peloton. That was true with Armstrong, true with Sky and true now.

Technically, it wasn't a deflection against suspicion, but one against the "assumption that they must be doing it."

 

[Netserk]

Technically, it wasn't a deflection against suspicion, but one against the "assumption that they must be doing it."

Interpreting the suspicion as springing from that assumption is part of the deflection. The assumption was introduced out of thin air in order to knock it down.

 

[kingjr]

Interpreting the suspicion as springing from that assumption is part of the deflection. The assumption was introduced out of thin air in order to knock it down.

I think the assumption very much exists, though perhaps not in the user to which theyoungest responded. In that case, I think it's more likely a misinterpretation by the latter rather than a deliberate deflection. As a general point, I believe the statement has merit.

 

[Rob5091]

Well, Mums and Dads, boys and girls, the Remco show has started and tomorrow we await your current Tour De France winner, Jonas Vingegaard Hansen (formerly Rasmussen) to light up the TT at O GranCamiño. Time to find out how things have gone at altitude.

 

[Roku]

Ag2r seems to be fine this year. A nobody suddenly gets himself close to the elite of classics, O'Connor back to his best, Naesen turns back the clock a couple of years, Touze, Baudin, Valentin Paret-Peintre looking quite good too...

 

[Mayomaniac]

Ag2r seems to be fine this year. A nobody suddenly gets himself close to the elite of classics, O'Connor back to his best, Naesen turns back the clock a couple of years, Touze, Baudin, Valentin Paret-Peintre looking quite good too...

Just wait until you see Gall at the Tour...

 

[zlev11]

yes, a few teams have clearly "got with the program" this season. Ag2r and Lotto for sure.

 

[Rackham]

I think it's too early to judge radioactivity levels in the peloton. Clearly Visma came in hot out of their training camp but I don't think February is a priority for most, at least not yet. I can see why Visma care so much, i.e. it's all about that UCI number one team ranking & most wins during the season.

I still think if the current pro-cycling scene follows the same logic as prior arms races (like in the 1990's, 2000's & 2010's), I expect this season to be 'closer' in the big events & races. I think there's always an element of catch-up involved where a trickledown dopeconomics occurs in which the guys who've been going hard on a program reach a plateau after a few years & the others who're copying them eventually catch up.

I expect a few surprises, like some sudden emergences of 'star talent' out of nowhere.

 

[Altitude Camp]

"I hope to take another step forward towards top form, but Visma has also come from altitude," Lampaert said. "It apparently hits them differently than it does to us."
This one made me laugh.
There was a similar phenomenon in cross country skiing in the EPO-era when some skiers got benefits from altitude rooms and others got next to none. After the finnish team got busted in Lahti the main coach revealed that the rooms were used to "explain" the changes in EPO fueled hemoglobin levels.

 

[Netserk]

I think it's too early to judge radioactivity levels in the peloton. Clearly Visma came in hot out of their training camp but I don't think February is a priority for most, at least not yet. I can see why Visma care so much, i.e. it's all about that UCI number one team ranking & most wins during the season.

That wouldn't be my interpretation, only for UAE. The difference in calendar is stark, and (Ge)Visma-LAB still have quite some points to catch-up. But they're coming fast, no doubt.

It's as expected and like last year. It'll be interesting to see if they can put up any fight in Strade, Paris-Nice, Sanremo, Catalunya. I somewhat doubt it. For the Giro, I can easily see them winning 6+ stages. And if we're lucky, they'll do an Astana '15 and tire out Pogi as much as possible.

 

[Mayomaniac]

That wouldn't be my interpretation, only for UAE. The difference in calendar is stark, and (Ge)Visma-LAB still have quite some points to catch-up. But they're coming fast, no doubt.

It's as expected and like last year. It'll be interesting to see if they can put up any fight in Strade, Paris-Nice, Sanremo, Catalunya. I somewhat doubt it. For the Giro, I can easily see them winning 6+ stages. And if we're lucky, they'll do an Astana '15 and tire out Pogi as much as possible.

Landa openly saying that that was the plan before the last few mountain stages of the 2015 Giro was awesome, the guy has no filter.

 

[Netserk]

Keldermerckx going full Landis on Stelvio, bridging up to Van Aert in the break. How hard can it be?!

 

[Tim Cahill]

Unfortunately there's absolutely nobody going to that Giro, Wilco, Caruso and maybe Dunbar can podium it. luckily for Rabobank that Geriant Thomas is just about reaching his prime years and will have lost a few kilos by May so at least Pogacar will have to waste a bit of energy with some attacks.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Everyone favourite riders, 'Tailwind' and 'how the race played out' are back

https://twitter.com/x/status/1761787931788796233

https://twitter.com/x/status/1761434178543845541

https://twitter.com/x/status/1762099052483653873

 

[Altitude Camp]

Aero everything and full on racing from the gun + better sugar intake could explain the increase of speeds but one has to remember that the reference points are full of very effective dope. Teams/riders peaking in the third week (like Bahrain last Vuelta) and still not totally crushing the competition is the most telling thing about the super clean era. If you are tired and get more racing load everyday this is called a miracle. Not crushing means that the others are doing it also.

Constant risk of losing income for teams and riders is not helping things in this sector either. There are plenty of examples were supernatural talent stops performing like losing a motor after getting a big contract.