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Étoile de Bessèges 2023 (February 1-5)

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What more should he have done last year? o_O
Win an important race. Last year he mostly won against weaker competition, every time the race was more important with better riders he failed. Not that that's a bad thing, he was 20 years old in his first proper professional season.

The way he won from Pedersen yesterday was amazing. I hope he leaves Lotto in 2 years because the way he progresses he should be the leader of one of the best teams in the world.
 
I hope he leaves Lotto in 2 years because the way he progresses he should be the leader of one of the best teams in the world.
This is something I can't exactly understand. I think it'd be great if we had more parity and another world beater on a team that isn't Jumbo, INEOS, QuickStep or UAE. I don't want to see Pogacar and Ayuso. I want to see Pogacar against Ayuso, and many more comparable examples.
 
This is something I can't exactly understand. I think it'd be great if we had more parity and another world beater on a team that isn't Jumbo, INEOS, QuickStep or UAE. I don't want to see Pogacar and Ayuso. I want to see Pogacar against Ayuso, and many more comparable examples.
I just don't like the Lotto team, so I don't want to see him riding there. I dislike most of their riders, how they behave themselves in interviews, and this is then reflected on the rest of the team. Not to mention Lotto just isn't as professional as a team compared to other WT teams. It's also fine if he doesn't ride for a top 3 team, just a team that can get the best out of him. I don't believe that's Lotto.
 
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I just don't like the Lotto team, so I don't want to see him riding there. I dislike most of their riders, how they behave themselves in interviews, and this is then reflected on the rest of the team. Not to mention Lotto just isn't as professional as a team compared to other WT teams. It's also fine if he doesn't ride for a top 3 team, just a team that can get the best out of him. I don't believe that's Lotto.

So you're opinion has nothing to do with what's best for De Lie or cycling in general (cause no it isn't a great thing that all the best riders are concentrated in a few teams), but everything with the fact that you can't stand Lotto. Lol

Quite funny tho how you talk about interviews but at the same time have a pic of Evenepoel who rides for Lefevere.
 
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So you're opinion has nothing to do with what's best for De Lie or cycling in general (cause no it isn't a great thing that all the best riders are concentrated in a few teams), but everything with the fact that you can't stand Lotto. Lol

Quite funny tho how you talk about interviews but at the same time have a pic of Evenepoel who rides for Lefevere.
Evenepoel at least races for a team with a long history of their riders overperforming.
 
Evenepoel at least races for a team with a long history of their riders overperforming.

So what? I was responding to the whole interview thing, whatever that was based on. Complaining about another teams riders interviews while being a Lefevere fanboy might be the most hypocritical thing I've heard in the past few months.

QS is probably the only team De Lie actually fits in that's better than Lotto and that will be able to free up the budget to pay him, but they have Evenepoel to worry about in the near future. You're not going to hear me saying QS is shiit.
 
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So you're opinion has nothing to do with what's best for De Lie or cycling in general (cause no it isn't a great thing that all the best riders are concentrated in a few teams), but everything with the fact that you can't stand Lotto. Lol

Quite funny tho how you talk about interviews but at the same time have a pic of Evenepoel who rides for Lefevere.
I don't have a problem with Evenepoel's interviews. People find him arrogant, but I don't see that at all. Lotto riders on the other hand are Calimero's, not sure if that even translates in English, but they whine, and it's always someone else's fault.

How is saying the De Lie needs to be in a more professional environment not better for him? Did you read my whole post or decided to start responding after reading the first 2 sentences? Because I clearly said "Lotto just isn't as professional as a team compared to other WT teams. It's also fine if he doesn't ride for a top 3 team, just a team that can get the best out of him. I don't believe that's Lotto."
 
I don't have a problem with Evenepoel's interviews. People find him arrogant, but I don't see that at all. Lotto riders on the other hand are Calimero's, not sure if that even translates in English, but they whine, and it's always someone else's fault.

How is saying the De Lie needs to be in a more professional environment not better for him? Did you read my whole post or decided to start responding after reading the first 2 sentences? Because I clearly said "Lotto just isn't as professional as a team compared to other WT teams. It's also fine if he doesn't ride for a top 3 team, just a team that can get the best out of him. I don't believe that's Lotto."
You’re such a Evenepoel fanboy it’s not even funny. Lotto can blame luck, as their luck has been quite crap. Lotto may not be the best place for him in the future, but in the present it’s the perfect fit. Also just claiming a professional environment to the top teams is bogus. All teams have a professional environment, just not overly strict like some teams, not to name names.
 
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I don't have a problem with Evenepoel's interviews. People find him arrogant, but I don't see that at all. Lotto riders on the other hand are Calimero's, not sure if that even translates in English, but they whine, and it's always someone else's fault.

How is saying the De Lie needs to be in a more professional environment not better for him? Did you read my whole post or decided to start responding after reading the first 2 sentences? Because I clearly said "Lotto just isn't as professional as a team compared to other WT teams. It's also fine if he doesn't ride for a top 3 team, just a team that can get the best out of him. I don't believe that's Lotto."

Like I said, i'm responding to your interview comment which is straight up hyppcritical you being a Evenepoel/Lefevere/QS fanboy. The team with the most cringy media stuff ever. You probably scream "Wolfpack" whenever someone from QS wins.

I have no problem saying QS is a waaay better team than Lotto and De Lie would fit there, but only if Evenepoel is gone tbh and I hope for QS and Belgian cycling that he won't leave them.
 
Lotto can blame luck, as their luck has been quite crap. Lotto may not be the best place for him in the future, but in the present it’s the perfect fit. Also just claiming a professional environment to the top teams is bogus. All teams have a professional environment, just not overly strict like some teams, not to name names.
That's why Wellens left for a different environment, and he himself said that his training is completely different at UAE. Not to mention that when Campenaerts arrived last year, they said he brought a new sense of professionalism into the team. That bar of professionalism shouldn't come from the riders, but from the team itself. It's not like I'm expecting Lotto to be as strict as DSM, but riders leaving Lotto have faired better in most cases (Tiesj Benoot, Stan Dewulf). I'm eager to see how Wellens, Harm Vanhoucke will perform now that they left Lotto.
 
That's why Wellens left for a different environment, and he himself said that his training is completely different at UAE. Not to mention that when Campenaerts arrived last year, they said he brought a new sense of professionalism into the team. That bar of professionalism shouldn't come from the riders, but from the team itself. It's not like I'm expecting Lotto to be as strict as DSM, but riders leaving Lotto have faired better in most cases (Tiesj Benoot, Stan Dewulf). I'm eager to see how Wellens, Harm Vanhoucke will perform now that they left Lotto.

Tiesj Benoot better at DSM than at Lotto? What are you on about. Are we talking about the same Tiesj Benoot? The guy that won Strade Bianche (and got 5th), was 2nd in a Tour stage, 4th in Tour de Suisse, 4th in Tirreno Adriatico, 3rd in Omloop, 5th at RVV, etc. when he was at Lotto?

Stan Dewulf is literally at the most underperforming (results - budget) WT team of the last 3 years (together with Israel). He hasn't made a significant step, he just got older.

Wellens trains different, what does that mean? Basically every team trains different than UAE riders. Wellens also said in the same interview that he doesn't know if UAE is better, that it's way early to tell. But you left that out on purpose didn't you?

Vanhoucke sure, he should do better at DSM because he needs someone to hold his hand the whole year. Well it's a 50-50 tbh. If he starts listening to people he will get better, if he will keep the attitude of "I do whatever I want, I don't need to listen to anyone" he won't.

After this post I'm pretty convinced you're just a Lotto hater tbh, it's full of BS. You're just making stuff up.
 
Tiesj Benoot better at DSM than at Lotto? What are you on about. Are we talking about the same Tiesj Benoot? The guy that won Strade Bianche (and got 5th), 2nd in a Tour stage, 4th in Tour de Suisse, 4th in Tirreno Adriatico, 3rd in Omloop, 5th at RVV, etc. when he was at Lotto?

Stan Dewulf is literally at the most underperforming (results - budget) WT team of the last 3 years (together with Israel). He hasn't made a significant step, he just got older.

Wellens trains different, what does that mean? Basically every team trains different than UAE riders. Wellens also said in the same interview that he doesn't know if UAE is better, that it's way early to tell. But you left that out on purpose didn't you?

Vanhoucke sure, he should do better at DSM because he needs someone to hold his hand the whole year. Well it's a 50-50 tbh. If he starts listening to people he will get better, if he will keep the attitude of "I do whatever I want, I don't need to listen to anyone" he won't.

After this post I'm pretty convinced you're just a Lotto hater tbh, it's full of BS. You're just making stuff up.
Obviously I mean Tiesj Benoot at Jumbo Visma. Although I do agree that Benoot was amazing at Lotto, and actually got better results there, but we can also see that he is a better rider at Jumbo-Visma. Which has to do with the environment he's in.

Stan Dewulf won bigger races, and rode more podium places. Just look at his cqranking score after he left Lotto. Although this isn't a great example, because it's not like he suddenly rode amazingly.

Training differently means that you take a different approach on how you train. Because you have the money to get better trainers and performance managers => more professional. Obviously Wellens is not going to *** on Lotto after he rode there for 11 years, and he still has a lot of friends there. But in that interview, in the subtext, it was clear that the bar was just higher at UAE (obviously).

I don't hate teams btw, I'm not a child. It's just that I don't feel Lotto is at the same level of professionalism as the bigger WT teams. That they weren't able to stay in WT honestly shows that. I can't understand that with the talent of riders they have, Van Moer, Vanhoucke, Ewan, Wellens, Vermeersch, Campenaerts, De Gendt they weren't able to stay in. Maybe it just comes down to money, and it's not Lotto's fault that they don't have the sponsors top teams have. And therefor can't create the best environment for their riders.
 
Obviously I mean Tiesj Benoot at Jumbo Visma. Although I do agree that Benoot was amazing at Lotto, and actually got better results there, but we can also see that he is a better rider at Jumbo-Visma. Which has to do with the environment he's in.

Stan Dewulf won bigger races, and rode more podium places. Just look at his cqranking score after he left Lotto. Although this isn't a great example, because it's not like he suddenly rode amazingly.

Training differently means that you take a different approach on how you train. Because you have the money to get better trainers and performance managers => more professional. Obviously Wellens is not going to *** on Lotto after he rode there for 11 years, and he still has a lot of friends there. But in that interview, in the subtext, it was clear that the bar was just higher at UAE (obviously).

I don't hate teams btw, I'm not a child. It's just that I don't feel Lotto is at the same level of professionalism as the bigger WT teams. That they weren't able to stay in WT honestly shows that. I can't understand that with the talent of riders they have, Van Moer, Vanhoucke, Ewan, Wellens, Vermeersch, Campenaerts, De Gendt they weren't able to stay in. Maybe it just comes down to money, and it's not Lotto's fault that they don't have the sponsors top teams have. And therefor can't create the best environment for their riders.

Tiesj Benoot is 28 years old, in the prime of his career at the best team in the world. Obviously he's going to be better, but the difference to his Lotto period isn't even big. He's just the worst example ever to make your point.

Stan Dewulf has 1 pro win, a random French .1 race at the end of the year with 3 WT teams at the start. He has 1 other podium, in the Tour de Wallonie. That's it. So I don't know what you're talking about. He got a bit older, a bit stronger. Obviously. Nothing to do with his move to AG2R. I'm pretty convinced that he would've done better at Lotto even.

You're just cherry picking the Wellens interview. He literally says in that interview that he has his doubts about his new training methods because he's scared he will lose his explosiveness. UAE is one of the best teams because they have the most money and can buy talent, not because their ways of training are that special (well they somewhat are, but not necessarily in a positive way for most riders).

There aren't a lot ex-Lotto riders that have performed better at other teams, you're just extremely overestimating the talent Lotto has/had the past few years. Them relegating is the result of not caring about points for 2 and a half year while certain French teams were doing it. And yes Ewan underperformed, but It's not Lotto's fault that he keeps riding against other riders wheels. Wellens too the last 2 years, but let's not pretend like he didnt do good at Lotto for the 8 years before that.
 
Tiesj Benoot is 28 years old, in the prime of his career at the best team in the world. Obviously he's going to be better, but the difference to his Lotto period isn't even big. He's just the worst example ever to make your point.

There aren't a lot ex-Lotto riders that have performed better at other teams, you're just extremely overestimating the talent Lotto has/had the past few years. Them relegating is the result of not caring about points for 2 and a half year while certain French teams were doing it. And yes Ewan underperformed, but It's not Lotto's fault that he keeps riding against other riders wheels.
I don't agree about Benoot. Sure he gets older and gets better, but I find the difference big compared to his time at Lotto. Don't forget the bar has been higher anyway the past few years due to Pogacar, WVA, Alaphilippe and MVDP. How he rode in the classics, he was so strong. It could've easily been him who rode away with WVA at E3 or Girmay at Gent-Wevelgem. But you see it differently, that's ok, these are just different ways of looking at a rider.

I don't feel it's only not caring for points. There were enough teams that didn't care for points and still managed to stay in the WT. I just don't feel they can get the best out of their riders. And therefor I would prefer to see De Lie somewhere else, the original discussion.

Oh well in 2 hours the livestream for the next stage starts. I'm pretty sure De Lie is going to win again. And fair is fair, Lotto put him in a great position yesterday, and worked hard.
 
I don't have a problem with Evenepoel's interviews. People find him arrogant, but I don't see that at all. Lotto riders on the other hand are Calimero's, not sure if that even translates in English, but they whine, and it's always someone else's fault.

How is saying the De Lie needs to be in a more professional environment not better for him? Did you read my whole post or decided to start responding after reading the first 2 sentences? Because I clearly said "Lotto just isn't as professional as a team compared to other WT teams. It's also fine if he doesn't ride for a top 3 team, just a team that can get the best out of him. I don't believe that's Lotto."
You seem to be posting from 2008, when Leif Hoste and Cadel Evans were the team leaders.

Also, regardless of what they might be like in interviews, at least Lotto doesn't have a team culture of being a-holes on the bike, which can't be said about Quick Step.

Now, I don't have a problem with saying that de Lie needs to prove more against A-list opposition, but while I criticised the way he was ridiculously overvalued in the UCI points system because of the myriad flat to rolling one-dayers in France and Belgium and compared him to that year Tom van Asbroeck went around scoring huge on CQ or the year Murilo Fischer was in the top 10 riders of the year because of the large number of sprinters' one-day races in the autumn in Italy at the time, that isn't his fault, and were it not for the points system the team probably would have had him taking on higher level opposition more often. I just don't see how that's Lotto's fault other than that they got themselves into that position by struggling in previous years. The only issue is that winning in Étoile de Bessèges doesn't really change much; however at least we already know him to be more versatile than many of the former kings of the pre-season who would rack up sprint wins in smaller races and then never kick on to become what people thought, like Andrea Guardini, Jakub Mareczko and their likes who simply couldn't get over obstacles to contest those sprints.

Also, if they hang on to de Lie, the results he gets them could turn Lotto into a big team, more attractive to sponsors, better destination for elite leadout men, and so on. How do you think some of the big teams in the péloton got that way? Sure, some teams like Sky were big money start-ups and others like UAE are big money injections into existing teams, but some of them got to where they are because of the riders they had building them up. Alpecin trace their lineage back to an old CX team that did a handful of road races in their off-season that has become a World Tour team off the back of the success that Mathieu van der Poel has got them. EF have the lineage of the old Slipstream Sports team that worked its way up with unexpected strong results coming from its motley crew of ex-USPS guys. DSM were once Skil-Shimano, that iteration being a ProConti team from the late 2000s that hit paydirt with John Degenkolb and Marcel Kittel. Hell, Jumbo-Visma are the old Rabobank team that was a mid-field WT team for many years. Holding on to de Lie if he does turn out to be everything he promises might not just be their ticket back to the World Tour but to the big leagues.
 
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