100th Ronde Van Vlaanderen - April 3rd, 2016 - 255.9k

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

I just hope sky realizes that their true classics leader is kwiat. Etix doesn't snag Sagan. Sep Stays with his team. Stuyen becomes trek leader.

This is the second time I've seen you say this. He was leader today and at Milan San Remo. Results so far - 40th and 27th. If he cracks like he did last year at LBL, where he'll also be Sky's leader, then he probably isn't going to be given outright leadership at monuments for Sky in 2017.

Rather worryingly he said he had bad legs today and that's why he attacked when he did rather than waiting to be dropped on the Kwaremont by Cancellara and the others. I guess it makes sense but then he must have known that Sagan and Vanmarcke were going to drop him so it wasn't a great move in terms of trying to win the race. Thomas or Rowe would have been the better Sky rider to attack at that point.

Let's be honest he's been pretty horribly inconsistent since winning the Rainbow Jersey. The AGR and E3 wins were great but there hasn't been much else to write home about and he's not someone you can rely on for a result.

I think that, given Sky's record in one day races since they were formed, they should be pretty happy having a guy that wins a classic each season as their team leader.

In three years as leader in cobbled races, Thomas won the same as Kwiat has done for them in three months.

 

[JRanton]

Re: Re:

I just hope sky realizes that their true classics leader is kwiat.

He finished 3rd of their 4 leaders today.

Also Moscon 77th, 7 minutes down is a shame.

Not everyone can be Benoot, I think he has a good future.

Benoot wasn't pulling on the front from 160km out to be fair. Sky's plan was obviously to use up the four helpers (Knees, Golas, Puccio and Moscon) to keep their four cards out of trouble at the front for the last 50km. They did that pretty well to be fair, it's just that like in virtually every monument they've ever raced they didn't have one of the strongest guys on the day who could win the race (Thomas was supposed to be that guy last year but he'd ran out of legs by Flanders). You have to be realistic. With Sky's current roster it was always going to be more likely than not that their winless streak in monuments was going to continue until at least 2017.

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

I just hope sky realizes that their true classics leader is kwiat.

He finished 3rd of their 4 leaders today.

Also Moscon 77th, 7 minutes down is a shame.

lol are you seriously criticizing moscon over today?

No.

 

[BigMac]

Re:

How about: even if Sep hadn't been suffering at all, he has several monument podiums now, at least twice he has helped Cancellara win, and he deserves some slack to selfishly ride for himself for once.

Yup, how can we forget 2013 Paris-Roubaix. You know what's funny? People were calling Sep dumb back then for not wheelsucking Cance.

 

[alspacka]

Re: Re:

These smug comments moaning about people being mean to poor old Sep are ridiculous.
Yes, in hindsight, it turns out he was dying, but there was absolutely no way you knew that at the time, nor was it even a logical assumption.
One of the strongest riders in this terrain, on good form, joined up very quickly with Sagan and Kwiat. Offered almost no assistance to Cancellara and Sagan, and subsequently did a decent sprint, ONE WHOLE WEEK AGO.
But of course you knew the only reason he wasn't helping was because he wasn't able to.

And sure it was decent of him to not come round Cance at the end, but you think he'd have done that if he was able to cling on to Sagan, or if Fabian had been successful in his pursuit? Obviously not.

Lol, don't try to cushion your lack of understanding by pretending nobody could have known. It was actually a very logical assumption for people who have seen Sep race many times.

I'm certain everyone on this forum has seen Sep race many times. Without doubt most thought he should help Sagan and Kwiat try to extend the gap.
Based on absolutely no logic just your ethereal cycling instinct, of course you knew better. As I said. Smug too.

Well he has reason to be smug toward you since he's right and you fail to understand it and the race as well.

That's fine though. You see it that way and we see it another way. We think we are right (we are obviously..) and you think you are right. (Based on what?)

Please point out where you identified, prior to it becoming readily apparent to everyone, that the reason one of the consensus strongest riders was not helping with the promising but by no means guaranteed escape was because he was physically unable to do so.
That is the only way you can show that 'you are right'. If you did, well, that was very astute of you.

 

[yaco]

Re:

https://youtu.be/0GAium61RVk?t=50s hidden motor?, look how Sep is suffering while Sagan attacks without additional effort.

A quality first post

 

[alspacka]

Re:

How about: even if Sep hadn't been suffering at all, he has several monument podiums now, at least twice he has helped Cancellara win, and he deserves some slack to selfishly ride for himself for once.

This is absolutely fair. But even if that had been the case people, including me, would've questioned the wisdom of banking entirely on Sagan holding off the favourites bunch single handedly.

 

[May0maniac]

Birdsong did pretty well, 25th in the same group as Marcato, EBH, Roelandts and Keukeleire in his first RVV.
His MTB background probably helped him, but that was the first time that he rode a real cobbled classic, right?

 

[willbick]

Was vanmarke stuck in the big ring when he was dropped by sagan on the paterberg?

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re:

Birdsong did pretty well, 25th in the same group as Marcato, EBH, Roelandts and Keukeleire in his first RVV.
His MTB background probably helped him, but that was the first time that he rode a real cobbled classic, right?

He showed some promise on a shorter distance.

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Re:

I just hope sky realizes that their true classics leader is kwiat. Etix doesn't snag Sagan. Sep Stays with his team. Stuyen becomes trek leader.

This is the second time I've seen you say this. He was leader today and at Milan San Remo. Results so far - 40th and 27th. If he cracks like he did last year at LBL, where he'll also be Sky's leader, then he probably isn't going to be given outright leadership at monuments for Sky in 2017.

Rather worryingly he said he had bad legs today and that's why he attacked when he did rather than waiting to be dropped on the Kwaremont by Cancellara and the others. I guess it makes sense but then he must have known that Sagan and Vanmarcke were going to drop him so it wasn't a great move in terms of trying to win the race. Thomas or Rowe would have been the better Sky rider to attack at that point.

Let's be honest he's been pretty horribly inconsistent since winning the Rainbow Jersey. The AGR and E3 wins were great but there hasn't been much else to write home about and he's not someone you can rely on for a result.

A man who made a bold attack on the Poggio, which didn't come far from succeeding, came 40th in the sprinter's monument? That's not bad. A man who has only ever ridden De Ronde once (and all of three cobbled classics in the past five years) making the key selection? That's worthy of praise, not condemnation. A 24-year-old cracking in a monument is hardly unprecedented; the same rider podiuming that monument a year earlier is pretty rare. And attacking there was, tactically, pretty clever: making the selection with hard work on a non-cobbled section, then holding back (especially remembering Kwiatkowski's formidable sprint at the end of a long, hard race) is smart, since he had teammates in the bunch behind who were much better on the cobbled sections, who could make a selection if his move was recaptured, and who were allowed to sit on and get an easy ride. Kwiat should lead them in everything but Roubaix, and should co-lead Flanders with Thomas for the coming seasons.

 

[arvc40]

Superb ride by Sagan. Playing with the others.

 

[Kwibus]

Anyone has a link to atleast the final 40-50km?

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

I just hope sky realizes that their true classics leader is kwiat. Etix doesn't snag Sagan. Sep Stays with his team. Stuyen becomes trek leader.

This is the second time I've seen you say this. He was leader today and at Milan San Remo. Results so far - 40th and 27th. If he cracks like he did last year at LBL, where he'll also be Sky's leader, then he probably isn't going to be given outright leadership at monuments for Sky in 2017.

Rather worryingly he said he had bad legs today and that's why he attacked when he did rather than waiting to be dropped on the Kwaremont by Cancellara and the others. I guess it makes sense but then he must have known that Sagan and Vanmarcke were going to drop him so it wasn't a great move in terms of trying to win the race. Thomas or Rowe would have been the better Sky rider to attack at that point.

Let's be honest he's been pretty horribly inconsistent since winning the Rainbow Jersey. The AGR and E3 wins were great but there hasn't been much else to write home about and he's not someone you can rely on for a result.

A man who made a bold attack on the Poggio, which didn't come far from succeeding, came 40th in the sprinter's monument? That's not bad.

Another point for pedromiguelmartins: Stannard has more MSR top-10s than Kwiatkowski...

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Re:

I just hope sky realizes that their true classics leader is kwiat. Etix doesn't snag Sagan. Sep Stays with his team. Stuyen becomes trek leader.

This is the second time I've seen you say this. He was leader today and at Milan San Remo. Results so far - 40th and 27th. If he cracks like he did last year at LBL, where he'll also be Sky's leader, then he probably isn't going to be given outright leadership at monuments for Sky in 2017.

Rather worryingly he said he had bad legs today and that's why he attacked when he did rather than waiting to be dropped on the Kwaremont by Cancellara and the others. I guess it makes sense but then he must have known that Sagan and Vanmarcke were going to drop him so it wasn't a great move in terms of trying to win the race. Thomas or Rowe would have been the better Sky rider to attack at that point.

Let's be honest he's been pretty horribly inconsistent since winning the Rainbow Jersey. The AGR and E3 wins were great but there hasn't been much else to write home about and he's not someone you can rely on for a result.

A man who made a bold attack on the Poggio, which didn't come far from succeeding, came 40th in the sprinter's monument? That's not bad.

Another point for pedromiguelmartins: Stannard has more MSR top-10s than Kwiatkowski...

Ben Swift has more MSR podiums than Mark Cavendish, Andre Greipel, Marcel Kittel, and Nacer Bouhanni combined.

 

[Tank Engine]

Re: Re:

Ben Swift has more MSR podiums than Mark Cavendish, Andre Greipel, Marcel Kittel, and Nacer Bouhanni combined.

Less wins though

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Re:

Ben Swift has more MSR podiums than Mark Cavendish, Andre Greipel, Marcel Kittel, and Nacer Bouhanni combined.

Less wins though

Well, obviously. When did Ben Swift last win a bike race?

 

[Volderke]

Re: Re:

Please point out where you identified, prior to it becoming readily apparent to everyone, that the reason one of the consensus strongest riders was not helping with the promising but by no means guaranteed escape was because he was physically unable to do so.
That is the only way you can show that 'you are right'. If you did, well, that was very astute of you.

That is actually very easy for anyone who understands 1 single iota about cycling: Vanmarcke ALWAYS rides when he is not in the red. ALWAYS. So if he isn't riding, he is cooked.

When you don't agree, please point me to 1 clear example where Vanmarcke didn't ride in the front to keep the chase away. Just one.
(and not just an example of freewheeling at 1K from the finish in order to save something from the sprint, when it is clear that the chasers won't catch the break).

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

These smug comments moaning about people being mean to poor old Sep are ridiculous.
Yes, in hindsight, it turns out he was dying, but there was absolutely no way you knew that at the time, nor was it even a logical assumption.
One of the strongest riders in this terrain, on good form, joined up very quickly with Sagan and Kwiat. Offered almost no assistance to Cancellara and Sagan, and subsequently did a decent sprint, ONE WHOLE WEEK AGO.
But of course you knew the only reason he wasn't helping was because he wasn't able to.

And sure it was decent of him to not come round Cance at the end, but you think he'd have done that if he was able to cling on to Sagan, or if Fabian had been successful in his pursuit? Obviously not.

Lol, don't try to cushion your lack of understanding by pretending nobody could have known. It was actually a very logical assumption for people who have seen Sep race many times.

I'm certain everyone on this forum has seen Sep race many times. Without doubt most thought he should help Sagan and Kwiat try to extend the gap.
Based on absolutely no logic just your ethereal cycling instinct, of course you knew better. As I said. Smug too.

Well he has reason to be smug toward you since he's right and you fail to understand it and the race as well.

That's fine though. You see it that way and we see it another way. We think we are right (we are obviously..) and you think you are right. (Based on what?)

Please point out where you identified, prior to it becoming readily apparent to everyone, that the reason one of the consensus strongest riders was not helping with the promising but by no means guaranteed escape was because he was physically unable to do so.
That is the only way you can show that 'you are right'. If you did, well, that was very astute of you.

Sure, no problem. This was one of my posts either on or right after Kwaremont (don't know exactly), just a few moments after you called Sep a disgrace:

Sagan is easily the strongest rider here. Vanmarcke at the limit.

And stop pretending Sep barely took a pull along the way. In the 10k between when the trio of him, Sagan and Kwia formed and the Kwaremont, he skipped like 2 turns right after he bridged (which is perfectly reasonable after such an effort) and then to the Kwaremont run-in he skipped another 2 or 3.

Then after Kwaremont, he immediately does a big pull, but then the camera goes to the chasing group, only to show Sagan-Sep again at say 1km from the foot of Pater, where we see Sagan going hard in those downhill and very narrow roads where it's impossible to overtake anyway, unless the rider in front of you makes way.

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

Ben Swift has more MSR podiums than Mark Cavendish, Andre Greipel, Marcel Kittel, and Nacer Bouhanni combined.

Less wins though

Well, obviously. When did Ben Swift last win a bike race?

Swift wins the "Most mentions in unrelated threads" race.

 

[May0maniac]

Re: Re:

Birdsong did pretty well, 25th in the same group as Marcato, EBH, Roelandts and Keukeleire in his first RVV.
His MTB background probably helped him, but that was the first time that he rode a real cobbled classic, right?

He showed some promise on a shorter distance.

Yeah, but wet Roubaix cobbles are a different beast. It's kinda sad that he lost most of his TT strength to become a better climber after 2011, the guy has the talent to do well on the cobbles.

 

[classicomano]

2 weeks ago cries of Van Avermaet of all people being a wheelsucker and now Selfless Sep? What is this world im living in.

 

[Geraint Too Fast]

Re: Re:

Well he has reason to be smug toward you since he's right and you fail to understand it and the race as well.

That's fine though. You see it that way and we see it another way. We think we are right (we are obviously..) and you think you are right. (Based on what?)

Please point out where you identified, prior to it becoming readily apparent to everyone, that the reason one of the consensus strongest riders was not helping with the promising but by no means guaranteed escape was because he was physically unable to do so.
That is the only way you can show that 'you are right'. If you did, well, that was very astute of you.

Sagan put the **** hammer down. Seriously. Canc is not stronger than Peter at all. So the useless Sep works. What a disgrace of a rider.

Stop being a tool like you've been most of the day. Sep works, just not as much as Sagan since Sagan kills him.

Very astute, Kwibus.


Btw alspacka, plenty of people were having a go at Vanmarcke AFTER it became 'readily apparent to everyone' why he was riding like that.

 

[alspacka]

Dammit Geraint, are you his henchman or something?!
Fair enough, Flamin and Kwibus, you did call it... BUT I'm insisting it was not remotely stupid to expect a man with the attributes and form of Sep to have more left in the tank at the point. Or that he might be relying on Sagan excessively, given he did exactly that last weekend.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

Well he has reason to be smug toward you since he's right and you fail to understand it and the race as well.

That's fine though. You see it that way and we see it another way. We think we are right (we are obviously..) and you think you are right. (Based on what?)

Please point out where you identified, prior to it becoming readily apparent to everyone, that the reason one of the consensus strongest riders was not helping with the promising but by no means guaranteed escape was because he was physically unable to do so.
That is the only way you can show that 'you are right'. If you did, well, that was very astute of you.

Sagan put the **** hammer down. Seriously. Canc is not stronger than Peter at all. So the useless Sep works. What a disgrace of a rider.

Stop being a tool like you've been most of the day. Sep works, just not as much as Sagan since Sagan kills him.

Very astute, Kwibus.


Btw alspacka, plenty of people were having a go at Vanmarcke AFTER it became 'readily apparent to everyone' why he was riding like that.

Thank you kind sir

To explain myself a bit further. Vanmarcke had to dig verrrry deep to close the gap to Kwiat and Sagan.
He was at 5-10mtr when Sagan took over from Kwiat and at the point they kept him at 5-10mtrs for a moment and you could see Vanmarcke dying a little bit until Sagan looked over his shoulder and held back a little to let him connect.
So he nearly missed connecting to them which is allready a hint.

2nd Vanmarcke has been a rider that in the past always worked, always worked like crazy. Then at the finish he got beated by others and everyone was saying how stupid Vanmarcke was that he was doing all that work while he doesn't have a great sprint (a decent one).
I do think Vanmarcke has learned from that a bit, but I'm not even 100% sure because it could as well been because he was simply in the red or well aware that one of his breakaway companions is just stronger.