100th Ronde Van Vlaanderen - April 3rd, 2016 - 255.9k

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

These smug comments moaning about people being mean to poor old Sep are ridiculous.
Yes, in hindsight, it turns out he was dying, but there was absolutely no way you knew that at the time, nor was it even a logical assumption.
One of the strongest riders in this terrain, on good form, joined up very quickly with Sagan and Kwiat. Offered almost no assistance to Cancellara and Sagan, and subsequently did a decent sprint, ONE WHOLE WEEK AGO.
But of course you knew the only reason he wasn't helping was because he wasn't able to.

And sure it was decent of him to not come round Cance at the end, but you think he'd have done that if he was able to cling on to Sagan, or if Fabian had been successful in his pursuit? Obviously not.

Three reasons it was blatantly obvious Sep was cooked.
1) He was gritting his teeth to catch the wheel of Sagan and Kwia; he didn't just effortlessly float across.
2) He was dropped like a rock on the final climb. Guy looked like he was going backwards.
3) He was a liability in the desperate chase at the end. He knew it; Cancellera knew it; and most everyone watching the race knew it. I mean, it took him forever to get to get in front of Cancellera, and once he did, both lost time to Sagan.

2) and 3)... hindsight is 20/20. The critical comments about him were posted when he went Kwiat, Sagan and skipped numerous turns at the front

He came across a big gap. He had to recover a little bit. And skipping turns always had to be part of the strategy in that group, as he also needed to beat Sagan to win de Ronde

 

[Jungle Cycle]

I live in Rio the Janeiro and with that kind of TT Sagan did today, he most definitly have a chance of medal in the Rio16 TT course. There is 3 hills, 2 short punchy hills. 1st small(500m/8%avg/19%max) and 2nd much like the Kwaremont(1km/9%avg/21%max) and a longer/easyer (2,1km/6%avg/8%max).. plus the technical descents.. not sure if they even going to use TT bikes, since it is a 2x the same 25k loop.. today was a "ballsy" ride!! chapeau... by the way, the road course will be forever remembered...

 

[infeXio]

Re: Re:

These smug comments moaning about people being mean to poor old Sep are ridiculous.
Yes, in hindsight, it turns out he was dying, but there was absolutely no way you knew that at the time, nor was it even a logical assumption.
One of the strongest riders in this terrain, on good form, joined up very quickly with Sagan and Kwiat. Offered almost no assistance to Cancellara and Sagan, and subsequently did a decent sprint, ONE WHOLE WEEK AGO.
But of course you knew the only reason he wasn't helping was because he wasn't able to.

And sure it was decent of him to not come round Cance at the end, but you think he'd have done that if he was able to cling on to Sagan, or if Fabian had been successful in his pursuit? Obviously not.

Three reasons it was blatantly obvious Sep was cooked.
1) He was gritting his teeth to catch the wheel of Sagan and Kwia; he didn't just effortlessly float across.
2) He was dropped like a rock on the final climb. Guy looked like he was going backwards.
3) He was a liability in the desperate chase at the end. He knew it; Cancellera knew it; and most everyone watching the race knew it. I mean, it took him forever to get to get in front of Cancellera, and once he did, both lost time to Sagan.

2) and 3)... hindsight is 20/20. The critical comments about him were posted when he went Kwiat, Sagan and skipped numerous turns at the front

He came across a big gap. He had to recover a little bit. And skipping turns always had to be part of the strategy in that group, as he also needed to beat Sagan to win de Ronde

I'm not disputing what Vanmarcke did. I'm merely pointing out that his points 2 and 3 are easy to reach in hindsight, as no one could really have predicted that he was going to be both dropped like a rock on Paterberg and subsequently unable to help the chase.

 

[infeXio]

Re:

I live in Rio the Janeiro and with that kind of TT Sagan did today, he most definitly have a chance of medal in the Rio16 TT course. There is 3 hills, 2 short punchy hills. 1st small(500m/8%avg/19%max) and 2nd much like the Kwaremont(1km/9%avg/21%max) and a longer/easyer (2,1km/6%avg/8%max).. plus the technical descents.. not sure if they even going to use TT bikes, since it is a 2x the same 25k loop.. today was a "ballsy" ride!! chapeau... by the way, the road course will be forever remembered...

Just, no. Sagan is never going to challenge for the olympic TT. Even comparing today's race with the Olympic TT is well... for the lack of a better word.. plain stupid.

 

[tor0]

Got to give it to Kristoff tough, been top 5 the last 4 years.

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

I live in Rio the Janeiro and with that kind of TT Sagan did today, he most definitly have a chance of medal in the Rio16 TT course. There is 3 hills, 2 short punchy hills. 1st small(500m/8%avg/19%max) and 2nd much like the Kwaremont(1km/9%avg/21%max) and a longer/easyer (2,1km/6%avg/8%max).. plus the technical descents.. not sure if they even going to use TT bikes, since it is a 2x the same 25k loop.. today was a "ballsy" ride!! chapeau... by the way, the road course will be forever remembered...

Just, no. Sagan is never going to challenge for the olympic TT. Even comparing today's race with the Olympic TT is well... for the lack of a better word.. plain stupid.

But otherwise, welcome to the forum...

 

[alspacka]

Three reasons it was blatantly obvious Sep was cooked.
1) He was gritting his teeth to catch the wheel of Sagan and Kwia; he didn't just effortlessly float across.
2) He was dropped like a rock on the final climb. Guy looked like he was going backwards.
3) He was a liability in the desperate chase at the end. He knew it; Cancellera knew it; and most everyone watching the race knew it. I mean, it took him forever to get to get in front of Cancellera, and once he did, both lost time to Sagan.

It became obvious on the climb. Nobody said otherwise. In fact that's exactly my point.

Prior to that (when everyone was saying 'wheelsucker' etc), there was absolutely no reason or precedent to suggest Vanmarcke not taking a pull, at a crucial time, was anything other than a tactical move. NONE.

 

[TMP402]

Re:

Its strange to think about Movistar finished higher than EQS on their home field. It would be the same as Jungels finishing ahead of Quintana, Valverde and Moreno on a Pyrenean mountain-odyssey.

Haha! Good stat. Relatedly, maybe the answer to EQS' lack of a current leader is Sep?

Claeys just got 9th in his first ever monument. Freakin' belgians and their classics

Very good performance. Erviti already has his own thread, which leaves the also impressive Dylan van Baarle. A step up from 19th place at E3 and 3rd in last year's Dwars door Vlaanderen.

 

[Jungle Cycle]

Re: Re:

Just, no. Sagan is never going to challenge for the olympic TT. Even comparing today's race with the Olympic TT is well... for the lack of a better word.. plain stupid.[/quote]

But otherwise, welcome to the forum...[/quote]


Thank you!! I'll cheer for T.Dumoulin anyway...

 

[Flamin]

Re:

Three reasons it was blatantly obvious Sep was cooked.
1) He was gritting his teeth to catch the wheel of Sagan and Kwia; he didn't just effortlessly float across.
2) He was dropped like a rock on the final climb. Guy looked like he was going backwards.
3) He was a liability in the desperate chase at the end. He knew it; Cancellera knew it; and most everyone watching the race knew it. I mean, it took him forever to get to get in front of Cancellera, and once he did, both lost time to Sagan.

It became obvious on the climb. Nobody said otherwise. In fact that's exactly my point.

Prior to that (when everyone was saying 'wheelsucker' etc), there was absolutely no reason or precedent to suggest Vanmarcke not taking a pull, at a crucial time, was anything other than a tactical move. NONE.

You and others were calling him out even After Kwaremont, which was totally ridiculous, as Sagan was very strong there and Pater suits Sagan 10 times better.

 

[pedromiguelmartins]

I just hope sky realizes that their true classics leader is kwiat. Etix doesn't snag Sagan. Sep Stays with his team. Stuyen becomes trek leader.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Cruel picture for Fabian.

 

[TMP402]

Re:

I just hope sky realizes that their true classics leader is kwiat.

He finished 3rd of their 4 leaders today.

Also Moscon 77th, 7 minutes down is a shame.

 

[burning]

Re: Re:

I just hope sky realizes that their true classics leader is kwiat.

He finished 3rd of their 4 leaders today.

Also Moscon 77th, 7 minutes down is a shame.

Not everyone can be Benoot, I think he has a good future.

 

[pedromiguelmartins]

Re: Re:

I just hope sky realizes that their true classics leader is kwiat.

He finished 3rd of their 4 leaders today.

Also Moscon 77th, 7 minutes down is a shame.

Because he made the race and had the bad luck to try and keep up with this Sagan. And he actually worked with Peter. Not a single Sky rider could've done that.

The others did a better sprint in that group. Yey. Kwiat is a winner. Stannard will never be. Thomas will be trying to win GTs next year.

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Re:

Its strange to think about Movistar finished higher than EQS on their home field. It would be the same as Jungels finishing ahead of Quintana, Valverde and Moreno on a Pyrenean mountain-odyssey.

Haha! Good stat. Relatedly, maybe the answer to EQS' lack of a current leader is Sep?

I'd very much like to see Sepp move over to the other Lotto. Roelandts is obviously a legend, but he is best suited to a helping role where he can attack early on and let the leader sit on, Debusschere's a good option in the semi-classics for a sprint but not much more, and I think Benoot's too young for the burden of being team leader. Anyway, he seems a lot better suited to RVV (and possibly even the Ardennes, given his junior results) than Roubaix, where Lotto-Soudal don't seem to have a real leader and where Lotto NL-Jumbo don't seem to have any domestiques. It's just a shame Soudal have nowhere near enough money to break his contract - it runs to 2018, doesn't it?

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

I just hope sky realizes that their true classics leader is kwiat.

He finished 3rd of their 4 leaders today.

Also Moscon 77th, 7 minutes down is a shame.

Because he made the race and had the bad luck to try and keep up with this Sagan. And he actually worked with Peter. Not a single Sky rider could've done that.

The others did a better sprint in that group. Yey. Kwiat is a winner. Stannard will never be. Thomas will be trying to win GTs next year.

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

https://youtu.be/0GAium61RVk?t=50s hidden motor?, look how Sep is suffering while Sagan attacks without additional effort.

If you don't see additional effort you have to look better.
Vanmarcke said he cramped up completely on the steep part of the Paterberg so he was completely cooked at that point.

Actually I don't know why I'm responding to a post like this.....

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

These smug comments moaning about people being mean to poor old Sep are ridiculous.
Yes, in hindsight, it turns out he was dying, but there was absolutely no way you knew that at the time, nor was it even a logical assumption.
One of the strongest riders in this terrain, on good form, joined up very quickly with Sagan and Kwiat. Offered almost no assistance to Cancellara and Sagan, and subsequently did a decent sprint, ONE WHOLE WEEK AGO.
But of course you knew the only reason he wasn't helping was because he wasn't able to.

And sure it was decent of him to not come round Cance at the end, but you think he'd have done that if he was able to cling on to Sagan, or if Fabian had been successful in his pursuit? Obviously not.

Lol, don't try to cushion your lack of understanding by pretending nobody could have known. It was actually a very logical assumption for people who have seen Sep race many times.

I'm certain everyone on this forum has seen Sep race many times. Without doubt most thought he should help Sagan and Kwiat try to extend the gap.
Based on absolutely no logic just your ethereal cycling instinct, of course you knew better. As I said. Smug too.

Well he has reason to be smug toward you since he's right and you fail to understand it and the race as well.

That's fine though. You see it that way and we see it another way. We think we are right (we are obviously..) and you think you are right. (Based on what?)

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

Three reasons it was blatantly obvious Sep was cooked.
1) He was gritting his teeth to catch the wheel of Sagan and Kwia; he didn't just effortlessly float across.
2) He was dropped like a rock on the final climb. Guy looked like he was going backwards.
3) He was a liability in the desperate chase at the end. He knew it; Cancellera knew it; and most everyone watching the race knew it. I mean, it took him forever to get to get in front of Cancellera, and once he did, both lost time to Sagan.

It became obvious on the climb. Nobody said otherwise. In fact that's exactly my point.

Prior to that (when everyone was saying 'wheelsucker' etc), there was absolutely no reason or precedent to suggest Vanmarcke not taking a pull, at a crucial time, was anything other than a tactical move. NONE.

For you there were none.

 

[the delgados]

Re: Re:

These smug comments moaning about people being mean to poor old Sep are ridiculous.
Yes, in hindsight, it turns out he was dying, but there was absolutely no way you knew that at the time, nor was it even a logical assumption.
One of the strongest riders in this terrain, on good form, joined up very quickly with Sagan and Kwiat. Offered almost no assistance to Cancellara and Sagan, and subsequently did a decent sprint, ONE WHOLE WEEK AGO.
But of course you knew the only reason he wasn't helping was because he wasn't able to.

And sure it was decent of him to not come round Cance at the end, but you think he'd have done that if he was able to cling on to Sagan, or if Fabian had been successful in his pursuit? Obviously not.

Three reasons it was blatantly obvious Sep was cooked.
1) He was gritting his teeth to catch the wheel of Sagan and Kwia; he didn't just effortlessly float across.
2) He was dropped like a rock on the final climb. Guy looked like he was going backwards.
3) He was a liability in the desperate chase at the end. He knew it; Cancellera knew it; and most everyone watching the race knew it. I mean, it took him forever to get to get in front of Cancellera, and once he did, both lost time to Sagan.

2) and 3)... hindsight is 20/20. The critical comments about him were posted when he went Kwiat, Sagan and skipped numerous turns at the front

Please refer back to reason number one about why it was blatantly obvious for anyone to see that Sep was cooked.
That, combined with the fact he got dropped and slowed down the chase made it obvious he wasn't playing games. Sep did an amazing ride. My only criticism is he should have taken more of a breather while riding the Cancellera train before trying to take a turn at the front. Then again, he was cooked. It was as plain as day to see.

 

[TMP402]

How about: even if Sep hadn't been suffering at all, he has several monument podiums now, at least twice he has helped Cancellara win, and he deserves some slack to selfishly ride for himself for once.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Re: Re:

I just hope sky realizes that their true classics leader is kwiat.

He finished 3rd of their 4 leaders today.

Also Moscon 77th, 7 minutes down is a shame.

lol are you seriously criticizing moscon over today?

 

[JRanton]

Re:

I just hope sky realizes that their true classics leader is kwiat. Etix doesn't snag Sagan. Sep Stays with his team. Stuyen becomes trek leader.

This is the second time I've seen you say this. He was leader today and at Milan San Remo. Results so far - 40th and 27th. If he cracks like he did last year at LBL, where he'll also be Sky's leader, then he probably isn't going to be given outright leadership at monuments for Sky in 2017.

Rather worryingly he said he had bad legs today and that's why he attacked when he did rather than waiting to be dropped on the Kwaremont by Cancellara and the others. I guess it makes sense but then he must have known that Sagan and Vanmarcke were going to drop him so it wasn't a great move in terms of trying to win the race. Thomas or Rowe would have been the better Sky rider to attack at that point.

Let's be honest he's been pretty horribly inconsistent since winning the Rainbow Jersey. The AGR and E3 wins were great but there hasn't been much else to write home about and he's not someone you can rely on for a result.

 

[Billie]

Re: Re:

I just hope sky realizes that their true classics leader is kwiat.

He finished 3rd of their 4 leaders today.

Also Moscon 77th, 7 minutes down is a shame.

lol are you seriously criticizing moscon over today?

Moscon was quite good today. He had a flat when he was leading the bunch over paddestraat. Not a shame not being able to come back after that. Especially for a neopro