108th Liège-Bastogne-Liège: 24 April, 2022

[AlfaLum]

It is true that it wasn’t the best other contenders in the race that were on Remco’s wheel at the top of the Redoute. That obviously was a big mistake, and probably with the right names there somebody would have been able to answer that attack.

But, the only fact that actually matters in this regard, it didn’t happen that way. And so Remco got a gap. And it’s damn incredible from the guy that once he gets that gap, there is just no getting him back.

 

[red_flanders]

While I think Evenepoel is the only rider who can attack in that location and solo it home - and I think vs the same field a top shape Pogacar could do similar if he simply attacks earlier on La Redoute, I think there's a pretty big difference still. Evenepoel is still dependent on other riders making the tactical blunder of not sitting on his wheel. Pogacar just rode away and took 3 minutes in the biggest race in the world and the rest was left just compeltely mindblown.

Agree they are different riders with different talents, who would not? Pogačar certainly would have attacked from a different place than the top of the Redoute, that's a pure Evenepoel move.

But "...tactical blunder of not sitting on his wheel"? The entire group was literally on his wheel. He attacked from the front, in a place where everyone HAD to be expecting him to attack, and no one could follow or reel him in. That's just kind of nuts, really, you have to be SO strong to do it. If anything the criticism of Remco here is that he waited too long, attacked from the front when everyone knew he might. Tactically it wasn't the most shrewd move.

When he went, it was crazy fast. I saw a lot of hard efforts to try and regain his wheel, then a lot of sitting up and looking at one another. Why? Because he blew them up and they had nothing left. Then he held it for 30k.

I don't know what would have happened if Pogačar was there, but I can't say he would have for sure closed it down. Plenty of really strong guys who were riding with Pog last week could not.

It's a monument. No one just lets riders go.

 

[Extinction]

But "...tactical blunder of not sitting on his wheel"? The entire group was literally on his wheel. He attacked from the front, in a place where everyone HAD to be expecting him to attack, and no one could follow or reel him in. That's just kind of nuts, really, you have to be SO strong to do it. If anything the criticism of Remco here is that he waited too long, attacked from the front when everyone knew he might. Tactically it wasn't the most shrewd move.

When he went, it was crazy fast. I saw a lot of hard efforts to try and regain his wheel, then a lot of sitting up and looking at one another. Why? Because he blew them up and they had nothing left. Then he held it for 30k.

I don't know what would have happened if Pogačar was there, but I can't say he would have for sure closed it down. Plenty of really strong guys who were riding with Pog last week could not.

It's a monument. No one just lets riders go.

Indeed, my feeling is that everyone was just calculating their reserves and a) hoping he or anybody else wasn't going to explode the race (or thinking nobody could possibly have the legs to attack now and not be seen again till the finish) and b) catch the train that brings any attacks back into the fold and wait till the brake is caught to give it a final go on the RaF. Only nobody had an answer for his "crazy fast" turn of speed, like a "deer shooting out of the forest in springtime."

 

[CyclistAbi]

All in all i am looking forward to LBL 2023.

 

[ruamruam]

I suspect people trying to diminish Remco's win have never raced or really don't understand racing. His attack was spectacular and he was able to drive it on for 30k. Youngest winner of a monument in over 50 years. It's not as if he attacked and nobody chased. He was immediately chased after attacking but he still managed to pull out a large gap.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

It's not as if he attacked and nobody chased. He was immediately chased after attacking but he still managed to pull out a large gap.

And it’s not like he got any leeway like “oh a Belgian kid attacked, no stress we get him back easily”
The chase got organized directly. There were several domestiques in the group and several teams contributed to the chase. There was nothing free.

 

[Blanco]

Yes you are. The argument you make can be made for every win by every rider. In the 2020 TDF, Bernal hadn't been able to train due to covid. We'll never know if Pogacar would have beaten him. Froome had crashed in the Dauphiné the year before, ending his career de facto. Dumoulin was still struggling with the aftermath of his knee and an on form Dumoulin could rival any GC rider. In 2021 Roglic crashed out, Dumoulin had a mental breakdown and the runner up was a guy who had never shown anything like that before, nor since.

It works for anyone anywhere. Pog winning UAE? Who actually tries to win UAE? The others don't care and are just training there. Carapaz winning the Giro? Only because the others refused to ride and Roglic got sick. Carapaz winning the Olympics? Only because Evenepoel was overtrained and Van Aert couldn't counter every move by 15 guys, so Carapaz just got lucky. Pog winning Lombardia? Lol, the Italian Kurt Van de Wouwer finished in his wheel. Nobody else was on form.

And this comes from a guy who claimed numerous times that Vuelta 2019 had a really weak field, and that Burgos 2020 had one hell of a field...!

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

And this comes from a guy who claimed numerous times that Vuelta 2019 had a really weak field, and that Burgos 2020 had one hell of a field...!

Yes. For a GT, it was.
Yes. For a 2.pro race, it was.

The GT had, at the time, two GT winners at the start, both of which has-beens in GC sense.
The 2.pro race had at the time 4 GT winners at the start, two of which were has-beens in GC sense. Two still very relevant.
I also always spoke about the field in the sense of a line-up, not in the sense of which riders were in stellar form. But you chose to ignore that.

 

[gregrowlerson]

"I have a dream, that all monuments are created equal."

 

[Leinster]

I already made a conclusions myself:

• If Pogacar was in the race Remco would have attacked in the same place. Unknown if he had been able to follow. Depends on his position. But had he stayed back there is no way in this universe that anybody would have helped him reel Remco back.
• If Ala was in the race Remco would have attacked in the same place and won.
• If Roglic was in the race Remco would have attacked in the same place and won,
• If MvDP was in the race Remco would have attacked in the same place and won,
• If Froome was in the race Remco would have attacked in the same place and won,
• If Bernal was in the race Remco would have attacked in the same place and won,
• If Contador was in the race Remco would have attacked in the same place and won,
• If Nibali was in the race Remco would have attacked in the same place and won,
• If Masnada was in the race Remco would have attacked in the same place and won,
• If Vino was in the race Remco would have attacked in the same place and won,

That Nibali, Masnada and Vino would never would have been able to reel him back is saying a lot.

If Pogacar was in the race, Pogacar would have attacked on Cote de Wanne and won by 3 minutes.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Martinez had beef with his gears and chain the moment Evenepoel attacked. Also he was too far back.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1518273004484149250

View: https://twitter.com/Lv_Cycling/status/1518273004484149250

 

[Kazistuta]

Martinez had beef with his gears and chain the moment Evenepoel attacked. Also he was too far back.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1518273004484149250

View: https://twitter.com/Lv_Cycling/status/1518273004484149250

Yeah, thought Ineos was absent in the front group after Redoute. That explains it, back to get Martinez.

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah, thought Ineos was absent in the front group after Redoute. That explains it, back to get Martinez.

More luck for a certain unbeatable rider.

 

[KenFiamingo]

All in all i am looking forward to LBL 2023.

Luckily we have Lombardia first where he's going to want to redeem himself.

 

[Bolder]

Martinez had beef with his gears and chain the moment Evenepoel attacked. Also he was too far back.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1518273004484149250

View: https://twitter.com/Lv_Cycling/status/1518273004484149250

Interesting. Thanks for poste. He might be my favorite Ineoster these days...

 

[Velolover2]

Let's be honest. This monument has become a lot better since they removed Saint-Nicolas.

In 5 years after decisive attacks being made on Redoute every year, we will be complaining why winning moves aren't being made on Stockeu as in the good ol' Eddy days.

 

[Extinction]

More luck for a certain unbeatable rider.

Not luck, Martinez was in no position to respond and neither was anyone else on Ineos. The mechanical didn't prevent him from being on Remco's whee,l as he was too far back at the time.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

More luck for a certain unbeatable rider.

If Martinez did not have a mechanical.
If Pidcock was not having health problems.
If Pog had started.
If Roglic had started.
If Van Aert didn’t have Covid
If Bahrain had better tactics
If it came to a small group sprint then he’d have been beaten by Quentin Hermans.

Have I forgotten anything to add to this thread’s forensic analysis that says Remco’s ride probably just about deserved a top ten placing?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

what a load of bullcrap with the what ifs.

It's pretty simple. Evenepoel went at a hard point in the race. Because after hard pacing on La Redoute not many have the extra to attack over the top. It's usually the best place to attack.
From the ones that responded or counter-attacked, none could hold the wheel or close the gap (Powless, later Fuglsang counter).
The other favorites waited, not because they felt confident he'd be caught, but more of fear of running out of gas and then getting countered on Roche. So they didn't have the balls or confidence to attack from that far out. Something Evenepoel did have both. So he was likely stronger.
If Vlasov or Teuns tries to solo from 30k out they get caught 100%. So it's very simple, the strongest has won. I'll hear none of this dumb what if *** that's always going on here.

I've criticized Evenepoel for going for GT's when I said before I think right now he's strength lie more in hilly/medium-mountain terrain. All his biggest numbers and wins have come on that terrain. I've only seen him climb really well that one time on Picon Blanco.

I'm not saying he won't be a great GT rider in the future or a great climber. But right now I'm not seeing it. And right now I'm not in the least suprised he won his first LBL this way. It's exactly his greatest strength. Solo riding on tough hilly terrain.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

what a load of bullcrap with the what ifs.

It's pretty simple. Evenepoel went at a hard point in the race. Because after hard pacing on La Redoute not many have the extra to attack over the top. It's usually the best place to attack.
From the ones that responded or counter-attacked, none could hold the wheel or close the gap (Powless, later Fuglsang counter).
The other favorites waited, not because they felt confident he'd be caught, but more of fear of running out of gas and then getting countered on Roche. So they didn't have the balls or confidence to attack from that far out. Something Evenepoel did have both. So he was likely stronger.
If Vlasov or Teuns tries to solo from 30k out they get caught 100%. So it's very simple, the strongest has won. I'll hear none of this dumb what if *** that's always going on here.

I've criticized Evenepoel for going for GT's when I said before I think right now he's strength lie more in hilly/medium-mountain terrain. All his biggest numbers and wins have come on that terrain. I've only seen him climb really well that one time on Picon Blanco.

I'm not saying he won't be a great GT rider in the future or a great climber. But right now I'm not seeing it. And right now I'm not in the least suprised he won his first LBL this way. It's exactly his greatest strength. Solo riding on tough hilly terrain.

Read that Woods didn't expect an attack anymore, that he thought an attack at La Redoute would be done at the bottom and so (he claims) was caught off-guard and was already dropping back. I guess his team, other than Fuglsang (who knew first hand) must not have considered Evenepoel at all, because it's become something of a trademark of his. He did it in Poland (actually on the flat after the climb), he did it in Denmark, he did it in Valencia, and in Itzulia. I could be forgetting some.

 

[Netserk]

But "...tactical blunder of not sitting on his wheel"? The entire group was literally on his wheel. He attacked from the front, in a place where everyone HAD to be expecting him to attack, and no one could follow or reel him in. That's just kind of nuts, really, you have to be SO strong to do it. If anything the criticism of Remco here is that he waited too long, attacked from the front when everyone knew he might. Tactically it wasn't the most shrewd move.

Huh? He attacked from 2nd position about 30'' from the KOM banner. Perfect place and position to get away alone.

 

[Extinction]

Huh? He attacked from 2nd position about 30'' from the KOM banner. Perfect place and position to get away alone.

Like Red set at the front. And on his teamate's wheel with it, so it doesn't get more telegraphed than that.

 

[tobydawq]

If Martinez did not have a mechanical.
If Pidcock was not having health problems.
If Pog had started.
If Roglic had started.
If Van Aert didn’t have Covid
If Bahrain had better tactics
If it came to a small group sprint then he’d have been beaten by Quentin Hermans.

Have I forgotten anything to add to this thread’s forensic analysis that says Remco’s ride probably just about deserved a top ten placing?

If Evenepoel's tires exploded during his attack.

 

[Red Rick]

what a load of bullcrap with the what ifs.

It's pretty simple. Evenepoel went at a hard point in the race. Because after hard pacing on La Redoute not many have the extra to attack over the top. It's usually the best place to attack.
From the ones that responded or counter-attacked, none could hold the wheel or close the gap (Powless, later Fuglsang counter).
The other favorites waited, not because they felt confident he'd be caught, but more of fear of running out of gas and then getting countered on Roche. So they didn't have the balls or confidence to attack from that far out. Something Evenepoel did have both. So he was likely stronger.
If Vlasov or Teuns tries to solo from 30k out they get caught 100%. So it's very simple, the strongest has won. I'll hear none of this dumb what if *** that's always going on here.

I've criticized Evenepoel for going for GT's when I said before I think right now he's strength lie more in hilly/medium-mountain terrain. All his biggest numbers and wins have come on that terrain. I've only seen him climb really well that one time on Picon Blanco.

I'm not saying he won't be a great GT rider in the future or a great climber. But right now I'm not seeing it. And right now I'm not in the least suprised he won his first LBL this way. It's exactly his greatest strength. Solo riding on tough hilly terrain.

Yeah if you completely misrepresent the what ifs then theyre not so legit anymore

 

[Netserk]

Like Red set at the front. And on his teamate's wheel with it, so it doesn't get more telegraphed than that.

When exactly he would attack wasn't telegraphed by his position, unless you believe it was imminent for the whole climb. But no one thought he would attack in the first half of the climb, despite having the same position then.

That he would attack over the top was expected, but that was independent on having ridden the whole climb in 2nd position.