114th Il Lombardia (1.UWT) // 15th of August 2020

[Red Rick]

Cool. Now we've established nobody is good in Lombardia when it's in October, we can also establish that the Worlds are a useless race cause they're only a fraction better than in Lombardia.

Similarly, season peak is apparently reached on the 3rd race day after a 5 months break for a great many

 

[topcat]

This is what we've been saying for a few days. Leaving Remco out of it (he's amazing but he crashed and we're not exactly sure what he's capable of). We've seen the other contenders and pretenders. Fuglsang was nearly unbeatable in early season Liege and nearly unbeatable in early season Lombardia.
Late season Lombardia is a different beast entirely.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Cool. Now we've established nobody is good in Lombardia when it's in October, we can also establish that the Worlds are a useless race cause they're only a fraction better than in Lombardia.

Similarly, season peak is apparently reached on the 3rd race day after a 5 months break for a great many

Most have done a lot more than 3 race days.
Nobody (to my knowledge) claimed riders have already reached their season peak, only that they are fresher and the riders here (instead of in Dauphiné) will likely ride the Giro, and for those riders Lombardia is one of few season goals left.
Nobody (to my knowledge) said riders aren't good in Lombardia during october, just that they are more fatigued and the overall level this year wasn't lower per se, even with some big names being absent.
Basically every comparison for race time and average speed has proven you wrong. Especially "out of form Nibali" having a faster time than both times he won, was quite amusing.

No need to sulk because you lost the argument. You're a big boy.

 

[SafeBet]

Most have done a lot more than 3 race days.
Nobody claimed riders have already reached their season peak, only that they are fresher and the riders here (instead of in Dauphiné) will likely ride the Giro, and for those riders Lombardia is one of few season goals left.
Nobody said riders aren't good in Lombardia during october, just that they are more fatigued and the overall level this year wasn't lower per se, even with some big names being absent.
Basically every comparison for race time and average speed has proven you wrong. Especially "out of form Nibali" having a faster time than both times he won, was quite amusing.

No need to sulk because you lost the argument. You're a big boy.

I don't think Avg speed can be taken out of context this way to prove anything. There are too many variables in cycling.
Nibali wasn't better this year than in 2015 or 2017 and yet his Avg speed was much faster. It's not that simple.

Personally I think there were 5 riders who were at their best or very close (Fuglsang, Bennett, Vlasov, Ciccone and Evenepoel). Possibly VdP even if I don't have many reference points for him in this kind of races.
Mollema and Nibali were good but surely not as good as when winning Lombardia in previous years.
But many other riders (Wellens, Moscon, Woods, to name a few) were far from their peak. So I don't buy the assumption that fresh riders means higher level per se. It depends on a ton of factors and changes from rider to rider.

 

[Rollthedice]

This Lombardia was unusual for lots of reasons but, as usually is, was won by the strongest rider out of those who started and who finished the race. All the rest is good talk, makes this forum a great place to come, what remains is Birdsong getting his second monument.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I don't think Avg speed can be taken out of context this way to prove anything. There are too many variables in cycling.
Nibali wasn't better this year than in 2015 or 2017 and yet his Avg speed was much faster. It's not that simple.

Personally I think there were 5 riders who were at their best or very close (Fuglsang, Bennett, Vlasov, Ciccone and Evenepoel). Possibly VdP even if I don't have many reference points for him in this kind of races.
Mollema and Nibali were good but surely not as good as when winning Lombardia in previous years.
But many other riders (Wellens, Moscon, Woods, to name a few) were far from their peak. So I don't buy the assumption that fresh riders means higher level per se. It depends on a ton of factors and changes from rider to rider.

Oh, but i didn't bring up the avg speed argument to begin with, iirc Rick used it to make a point. I stressed the fact that it was taken out of context from the beginning.

 

[BlueRoads]

Get on your bikes and fight it out like real cyclists.

 

[topcat]

Get on your bikes and fight it out like real cyclists.

No, too many variables in cycling and it's early season, we're all too fresh. This can only be settled in the boxing ring.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Get on your bikes and fight it out like real cyclists.

Dude, i'd be happy to get an average of 25km/h over 50k at this point. Haven't touched my bike in nearly two years. Too busy driving my kids around in a cargobike. Obviously i'm not going to take your advise

 

[roundabout]

14th place was over 10 minutes behind the winner. Or is there a different meaning of the overall level?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

14th place was over 10 minutes behind the winner. Or is there a different meaning of the overall level?

If that proves one thing, it 's how hard DQT made the race from the start, not only dropping most of the peloton by the time they reached the Sormano,but burning up their own domestiques along with it, dropping Evenepoel off completely isolated. We knew the field didn't have the same depth, the discussion was mostly about the level of the top competitors.

 

[Blanco]

Most have done a lot more than 3 race days.
Nobody (to my knowledge) claimed riders have already reached their season peak, only that they are fresher and the riders here (instead of in Dauphiné) will likely ride the Giro, and for those riders Lombardia is one of few season goals left.
Nobody (to my knowledge) said riders aren't good in Lombardia during october, just that they are more fatigued and the overall level this year wasn't lower per se, even with some big names being absent.
Basically every comparison for race time and average speed has proven you wrong. Especially "out of form Nibali" having a faster time than both times he won, was quite amusing.

No need to sulk because you lost the argument. You're a big boy.

It was. Level of contenders for the win was significantly lower, and the team depth was also significantly lower.

 

[roundabout]

If that proves one thing, it 's how hard DQT made the race from the start, not only dropping most of the peloton by the time they reached the Sormano,but burning up their own domestiques along with it, dropping Evenepoel off completely isolated. We knew the field didn't have the same depth, the discussion was mostly about the level of the top competitors.

I've seen words overall level used.

But ok, once the goalposts have moved.

Nibali cramping up finished 6th.

Schachmann with his issues finished 7th.

Does it mean that there were 5 top riders in the whole race?

 

[topcat]

The race would have been way better if some of the losers in the CdD had showed up and lost in il lombardia instead. Now it's time to get our tour on.

 

[BlueRoads]

Dude, i'd be happy to get an average of 25km/h over 50k at this point. Haven't touched my bike in nearly two years. Too busy driving my kids around in a cargobike. Obviously i'm not going to take your advise

Well, the most important thing is your kids are happy. (I remember driving my son around in the trailer... my bike right now feels so light...) Right, so keep on fighting with words.