114th Il Lombardia (1.UWT) // 15th of August 2020

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Just watched this years edition. The massive time gaps in the results list indicates how hard this version was.
Glanced this thread and don't understand all the yelling of how 'weak' the field was.
Compare to the normal editions in post WC fall. Most of the field is tired and a tiny handful is especially prepared.
This year all participants met with fresh legs, and with that in mind I will certainly not use the word 'weak'.

Well deserved winner.

And hope Remco Evenepoel will come back next year just as strong.
 
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I think Schachmann would have been there for the podium, hadn't been 3 Trek riders and 2 Astana in the group of 6. He did a good job pacing himself up Sormano and not blowing up.
 
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I think Schachmann would have been there for the podium, hadn't been 3 Trek riders and 2 Astana in the group of 6. He did a good job pacing himself up Sormano and not blowing up.
Are you making the point that Schachmann would have made the podium if there were 4 guys less finishing ahead of him?

Or that if there weren't domestiques to keep the pace in the front group, he would have been able to catch them?
 
View: https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1295059201476173824


Reaffirming the level wasn't that high. IIRC the Sormano climb wasn't fast either. Compare that to 2018 when they did Sormano at breakneck speeds and still went faster up the Civiglio
There's more than just Sormano and Civiglio. The first hour of the race went at an average speed of 50km/h, the pace on the Ghisallo was rather high. I think everyone was already worn out before Sormano and Civiglio.
What was yhe average speed of the race compared to other years (although average speed doesn't say everything)?
 
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Aug 1, 2016
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Are you making the point that Schachmann would have made the podium if there were 4 guys less finishing ahead of him?

Or that if there weren't domestiques to keep the pace in the front group, he would have been able to catch them?
If there weren't too many domestiques (Vlasov, Nibali...) he would have come back with MVDP, Ulissi, Majka and Carapaz in the descent. Every year there is a bit of a regrouping,

He paced himself really good up Sormano and he did not blow, Then, Civiglio and San Fermo suited him better than Sormano. Fuglsang and Bennett were too much for him, but I think he could have been close to podium or in the fight for it.
 
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Jan 18, 2020
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View: https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1295059201476173824


Reaffirming the level wasn't that high. IIRC the Sormano climb wasn't fast either. Compare that to 2018 when they did Sormano at breakneck speeds and still went faster up the Civiglio
Come on Red Rick. Ever climbed very steep hills in the heat - especially after riding for a few hours? Makes a huge difference. If you factor in the higher temps (August vs. October) 2020 is actually probably higher level.
 
Come on Red Rick. Ever climbed very steep hills in the heat - especially after riding for a few hours? Makes a huge difference. If you factor in the higher temps (August vs. October) 2020 is actually probably higher level.
They had been riding at an insane pace up til then, the "peloton" was reduced to maybe 20 guys at the moment they were climbing Sormano, most teams only had one rider left. You'd have to be a bit thick wanting to compare climbing speeds without looking at the context. It's not only the temperatures that had an impact.
 
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Less than 0.8km/h difference isn't all that big compared to 2018, especially when you consider they set the Sormano record that year, did turns with 4 guys and Pinot still easily beat Fuglsangs time on Civiglio while doing all the work himself there.

And I think we're overestimating the effect of heat on pro cyclists in top form here. Some of Froome's craziest performances were in very high temperatures. And yeah climbing times fluctuate, but I don't buy into doing a 13 minute climb half a minute slower being an insane performance. Also, hard to buy for me that an entire peloton is shambles before the Muro cause they're driving the flat like 1.5km/h harder.

Let's compare to MSR. Really hot race for 7 hours. Poggio time same as ever. Milano Sanremo 2018. Slow race due to really bad weather, really slow Poggio time.
 
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Less than 0.8km/h difference isn't all that big compared to 2018, especially when you consider they set the Sormano record that year, did turns with 4 guys and Pinot still easily beat Fuglsangs time on Civiglio while doing all the work himself there.

And I think we're overestimating the effect of heat on pro cyclists in top form here. Some of Froome's craziest performances were in very high temperatures. And yeah climbing times fluctuate, but I don't buy into doing a 13 minute climb half a minute slower being an insane performance. Also, hard to buy for me that an entire peloton is shambles before the Muro cause they're driving the flat like 1.5km/h harder.

Let's compare to MSR. Really hot race for 7 hours. Poggio time same as ever. Milano Sanremo 2018. Slow race due to really bad weather, really slow Poggio time.
:tearsofjoy:

Handily forgetting they cut 12km of flat out of the course (meaning lower avg speed and less time to recuperate), and likewise ignoring the fact that it only makes sense that after the insane pace before the Sormano, that the tempo would be lower afterwards.

Let's make a point to make a point, and completely ignore the context.
 
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Don't much about Lombardia, so could be underestimating it here. But seems like in a usual year it's too late to really capture a lot of top guys on form for a Monument - many potential winners have called it a year by then? Pretty awesome race to watch though.
 
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:tearsofjoy:

Handily forgetting they cut 12km of flat out of the course (meaning lower avg speed and less time to recuperate), and likewise ignoring the fact that it only makes sense that after the insane pace before the Sormano, that the tempo would be lower afterwards.

Let's make a point to make a point, and completely ignore the context.
I considered that flat. If they'd done 10km extra at 50kmh it would barely make a difference. It would still be under 42 average. Similarly, slow climbing times on Sormano and Civiglio hardly make a difference either. You lose less than 2 minutes total. Probably around a minute max cause riders won't do Sormano records and Civiglio are unlikely to be ridden in the same race.

For reference, Giro del'Emilia (roughly the same field) had a lower average speed than previous years, a shorter race, and okay climbing time for the winner, and huge gaps behind. About 17s slower than Roglic. The overall fitness level of the peloton is really low.

And recovery after 120 kms with 2 cat 3 climbs? Okay.

What's more plausible? A worldwide epidemic, 5 months of no racing and like 6 days of max racing in preperation have led to a lower fitness levels in the peloton

OR

A really poorly prepared peloton has the best performance the race has seen this decade, based on a 0.3km/h difference in average speed which perfectly explains 6 minutes difference between the winner and 10th place. Gaps which are so big half the bottom half of the top 10 have a lower average speed than last year.
 
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So i ran some numbers, this is the average speeds I get for the race.
����������
1​
FUGLSANG Jakob
41,63412​
2​
BENNETT George
41,56961​
3​
VLASOV Aleksandr
41,52809​
4​
MOLLEMA Bauke
41,4701​
5​
CICCONE Giulio
41,42672​
6​
NIBALI Vincenzo
41,19891​
7​
SCHACHMANN Maximilian
41,07681​
8​
ULISSI Diego
40,97763​
9​
HERMANS Ben
40,89702​
10​
VAN DER POEL Mathieu
40,84078​
 
The level at this year's Lombardia was just as high without all the hangers on.
No, it wasn't.
It was an interesting edition, no doubt, but the level was not as high like usually is.
We had Fuglsang, Evenepoel, Mollema, Nibali, young Vlasov and freaking G.Bennett as the favorites. That's a thin field imo.
Previous years we had Roglic, Bernal, Valverde, Pinot, Uran, Dan Martin, Alaphilippe, etc., mostly coming from the Worlds or Vuelta, or both.
 
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No, it wasn't.
It was an interesting edition, no doubt, but the level was not as high like usually is.
We had Fuglsang, Evenepoel, Mollema, Nibali, young Vlasov and freaking G.Bennett as the favorites. That's a thin field imo.
Previous years we had Roglic, Bernal, Valverde, Pinot, Uran, Dan Martin, Alaphilippe, etc., mostly coming from the Worlds or Vuelta, or both.
Peak Pinot would be the only one that would have rivalled Fuglsang on the day, but we can agree to disagree
 
Peak Pinot would be the only one that would have rivalled Fuglsang on the day, but we can agree to disagree
And we will. Roglic and Valverde from last year were in fantastic shape. Hell I'm not so sure even Fuglsang from this year was stronger than last year's version. His competition was much weaker this year, the only one who could give him a fight crashed on Sormano...
 
And we will. Roglic and Valverde from last year were in fantastic shape. Hell I'm not so sure even Fuglsang from this year was stronger than last year's version. His competition was much weaker this year, the only one who could give him a fight crashed on Sormano...
Lombardia is missing from Valverde's palmares. Gilbert and Sagan are missing MSR and Nibali is missing Olympic Gold. They're all probably going to finish their careers without these wins.
 
People really understimate Fuglsang because of his crack in Strade and his lost to Evenepoel in Pologne, but his shape is insane at this moment(comparable to the one he had last year in Ardennes) and I'm not sure that many riders could've beat him. Who do you think cand drop him on Civiglio or San Fermo? Probably, no one. Yes, sure he has a worst sprint than the likes of Valverde, Roglic or Pinot but on these climbs he's as good as them and once you're in the final anything can happen.
 
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Lombardia is missing from Valverde's palmares. Gilbert and Sagan are missing MSR and Nibali is missing Olympic Gold. They're all probably going to finish their careers without these wins.
Nibali still has a chance for his Olympic Gold next year. Also for WC this year if they find a new route. Gilbert doesn't stand a chance in MSR. Sagan I still think will win it one day.
Valverde is a tricy one. I think we should wait a couple of months to see if he still has it. If he bounces back he can win Lombardia next year.
 
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