- Feb 20, 2010
- 33,064
- 15,272
- 28,180
Re: Re:
Was that a crappy race? Sure. Did Valverde win any stage? No. Was his best solo a defensive ride? Yes.
But when you're asking for solos, in the definition we usually mean, that's got to be in individual stages, because you can't win a GC solo (although I'm sure you'll argue Contador did in the 2011 and 2015 Giri).
And when it comes to stages and major classics, nobody is going to be stupid enough to let Valverde go up the road, and you know full well that the way the hilly Classics are raced these days rather limits the possibilities for a lengthy solo anyway.
We know full well, you hate Valverde and think he's massively overrated, and will resort to any contortion of facts or favourable interpretation of races to further that aim. You've done so dozens of times, editing sections out of his palmarès based on your subjective ranking of races. But this is the Paris-Roubaix thread, Valverde has no relevance to it, he's never even attempted Roubaix because he knows it's not his thing (he did try de Ronde but clearly that's not worked out for him).
The point is, how can the overall count towards any discussion of a "solo" in a "big race"? Because the classification is, by definition, solo.El Pistolero said:Libertine Seguros said:
Re-watch it then.
Was that a crappy race? Sure. Did Valverde win any stage? No. Was his best solo a defensive ride? Yes.
But when you're asking for solos, in the definition we usually mean, that's got to be in individual stages, because you can't win a GC solo (although I'm sure you'll argue Contador did in the 2011 and 2015 Giri).
And when it comes to stages and major classics, nobody is going to be stupid enough to let Valverde go up the road, and you know full well that the way the hilly Classics are raced these days rather limits the possibilities for a lengthy solo anyway.
We know full well, you hate Valverde and think he's massively overrated, and will resort to any contortion of facts or favourable interpretation of races to further that aim. You've done so dozens of times, editing sections out of his palmarès based on your subjective ranking of races. But this is the Paris-Roubaix thread, Valverde has no relevance to it, he's never even attempted Roubaix because he knows it's not his thing (he did try de Ronde but clearly that's not worked out for him).
- Jul 16, 2010
- 17,455
- 5
- 0
Re: Re:
A solo in a stage that determined the overall GC counts towards the discussion of a solo in a big race. Need examples? Contador in Fuente De and Nibali in the Giro last year on the two final mountain stages.
On the subject of the hilly classics. Why did they let Nibali go in the Giro di Lombardia in 2015? That was an epic solo finish. So it's not as impossible as you claim. Surely you're not going to argue that Nibali wasn't marked? Gilbert also had a nice solo in the Giro di Lombardia in 2010. As did Rodriguez in 2013 (I think it was that year).
Nibali also almost won LBL in a brilliant solo, but he got pipped to the line by Iglinsky (who also did most of it solo, just not as far out).
Andy Schleck destroyed everyone in LBL in 2009, one of the most impressive solos in the recent history of that race (and I don't think anyone will accuse me of liking Andy Schleck).
Libertine Seguros said:The point is, how can the overall count towards any discussion of a "solo" in a "big race"? Because the classification is, by definition, solo.El Pistolero said:Libertine Seguros said:
Re-watch it then.
Was that a crappy race? Sure. Did Valverde win any stage? No. Was his best solo a defensive ride? Yes.
But when you're asking for solos, in the definition we usually mean, that's got to be in individual stages, because you can't win a GC solo (although I'm sure you'll argue Contador did in the 2011 and 2015 Giri).
And when it comes to stages and major classics, nobody is going to be stupid enough to let Valverde go up the road, and you know full well that the way the hilly Classics are raced these days rather limits the possibilities for a lengthy solo anyway.
We know full well, you hate Valverde and think he's massively overrated, and will resort to any contortion of facts or favourable interpretation of races to further that aim. You've done so dozens of times, editing sections out of his palmarès based on your subjective ranking of races. But this is the Paris-Roubaix thread, Valverde has no relevance to it, he's never even attempted Roubaix because he knows it's not his thing (he did try de Ronde but clearly that's not worked out for him).
A solo in a stage that determined the overall GC counts towards the discussion of a solo in a big race. Need examples? Contador in Fuente De and Nibali in the Giro last year on the two final mountain stages.
On the subject of the hilly classics. Why did they let Nibali go in the Giro di Lombardia in 2015? That was an epic solo finish. So it's not as impossible as you claim. Surely you're not going to argue that Nibali wasn't marked? Gilbert also had a nice solo in the Giro di Lombardia in 2010. As did Rodriguez in 2013 (I think it was that year).
Nibali also almost won LBL in a brilliant solo, but he got pipped to the line by Iglinsky (who also did most of it solo, just not as far out).
Andy Schleck destroyed everyone in LBL in 2009, one of the most impressive solos in the recent history of that race (and I don't think anyone will accuse me of liking Andy Schleck).
In fairness, Valverde has no need to go solo from 40km because he can sprint so well. Nibali has no choice. I don't like the fact Valverde has such a good sprint because it makes him a pretty negative/conservative rider, but he isn't a Gerrans.
- Feb 20, 2010
- 33,064
- 15,272
- 28,180
I said they "limit" the possibilities for a lengthy solo, not preclude them entirely.
While I agree that Valverde has no epic solos in his Vuelta win (indeed his best ride was the recovery ride on the La Pandera stage after being dropped) of any kind, I have some questions as to your definition.
e.g. how big does the solo have to be. Does Sastre on the Alpe count, for example, or does it have to be from afar à la Landis?
How solo does it have to be - does Quintana at Formigal count, since he did the whole climb on the front but didn't even win the stage? Contador had plenty of help en route to Fuente Dé from teammates and former colleagues up the road, so I presume this is ok to an extent, but where is the line drawn?
Does the solo ultimately have to win the GC? Does Schleck to Galibier count, since that was undoubtedly an epic solo of the kind you describe, only he lost the GC a couple of days later due to his toxic TT skills? What of Landis and Heras, two we can undoubtedly describe as epic solos, but where the victory is contentious? Or Rasmussen to Tignes?
How far out does the solo have to be? You've included Rodríguez in Lombardia, so that suggests Sagan at de Ronde, Boonen Roubaix '09 and so on should count?
If your case is that Valverde's career is very light on 'epic rides' then sure, yes it is. But at the same time, how many riders really do have multiple epic solos in those types of race? Nibali, sure. Boonen has Roubaix '12 and '09 and de Ronde in '05 where he's come to the line alone. Cancellara, obviously. Devolder has de Ronde at a push. There are no "epic" solos at Sanremo anymore. LBL has Schleck in '09, but if we don't allow Galibier, he only has one. Gilbert has last week, maybe if we're generous Lombardia in 2010.
But how many riders who are actually active (or will be active in 24 hours' time) have more than one such race where they've won such a race in a solo of decent distance? Not many.
While I agree that Valverde has no epic solos in his Vuelta win (indeed his best ride was the recovery ride on the La Pandera stage after being dropped) of any kind, I have some questions as to your definition.
e.g. how big does the solo have to be. Does Sastre on the Alpe count, for example, or does it have to be from afar à la Landis?
How solo does it have to be - does Quintana at Formigal count, since he did the whole climb on the front but didn't even win the stage? Contador had plenty of help en route to Fuente Dé from teammates and former colleagues up the road, so I presume this is ok to an extent, but where is the line drawn?
Does the solo ultimately have to win the GC? Does Schleck to Galibier count, since that was undoubtedly an epic solo of the kind you describe, only he lost the GC a couple of days later due to his toxic TT skills? What of Landis and Heras, two we can undoubtedly describe as epic solos, but where the victory is contentious? Or Rasmussen to Tignes?
How far out does the solo have to be? You've included Rodríguez in Lombardia, so that suggests Sagan at de Ronde, Boonen Roubaix '09 and so on should count?
If your case is that Valverde's career is very light on 'epic rides' then sure, yes it is. But at the same time, how many riders really do have multiple epic solos in those types of race? Nibali, sure. Boonen has Roubaix '12 and '09 and de Ronde in '05 where he's come to the line alone. Cancellara, obviously. Devolder has de Ronde at a push. There are no "epic" solos at Sanremo anymore. LBL has Schleck in '09, but if we don't allow Galibier, he only has one. Gilbert has last week, maybe if we're generous Lombardia in 2010.
But how many riders who are actually active (or will be active in 24 hours' time) have more than one such race where they've won such a race in a solo of decent distance? Not many.
Armchair Cyclist
Moderator
- Mar 22, 2010
- 15,228
- 11,218
- 28,180
Take it elsewhere: Valverde's ability to win solo has absolutely nothing to do with tomorrow's Pris-Roubaix.
- Jul 4, 2011
- 1,475
- 0
- 0
PR tomorrow - can't fookin wait. As folk have already said it's nothing short of disappointing that Phil is AWOL
PS yes that LBL solo from Nibali. How it finished for him and how it finished for Phil Gil in Flanders is exactly the same.
In the sense that you give it everything, you are in a position to win but the rest is largely out of your hands.
PS yes that LBL solo from Nibali. How it finished for him and how it finished for Phil Gil in Flanders is exactly the same.
In the sense that you give it everything, you are in a position to win but the rest is largely out of your hands.
- Jul 4, 2011
- 1,475
- 0
- 0
- Jul 30, 2009
- 148
- 0
- 8,830
Go to sleep tonight with these guys singing in your ears:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzLlDfdleyA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzLlDfdleyA
- May 5, 2009
- 1,905
- 443
- 11,580
For a second I thought I was in the wrong thread. It was all about Bala. On the the Hell of the North, can't wait for the Sunday in Hell. GO cobbled riders!
This goes back to a previous discussion-- but clearly, this tweet shows Stybar is ready to do whatever it takes to help Boonen win
https://twitter.com/danslamusette/status/850451797827350528
https://twitter.com/danslamusette/status/850451797827350528
Re:
That seems to be the middle estimate on the official site... low and high estimates around 715 and 745 for 40 to 44kph. Last 5-10 years have been between 39-45kmph for the winner
SHAD0W93 said:
That seems to be the middle estimate on the official site... low and high estimates around 715 and 745 for 40 to 44kph. Last 5-10 years have been between 39-45kmph for the winner
- Mar 29, 2012
- 3,641
- 5,392
- 19,180
This will be a quick < 6hrs edition. start is delayed to 11.11AM CET to make sure trains are not in the way at several crossings. Finish around 5PM CET. Last 30 K from 4.15 CET, do not turn in later, and still better to follow the action from Haveluy (section before Wallers), from a bit before 3PM central European time.
- Feb 10, 2015
- 5,932
- 803
- 19,680
- Sep 8, 2009
- 15,306
- 3
- 22,485
Re: Re:
What? Valverde doesn't agree with you, specially after angliru... in the giro he was in bad shape, so he was dropped in almost every mountain stageValv.Piti said:
- May 29, 2011
- 3,549
- 1,651
- 16,680
Hoping for an eventful race and a surprise winner. On top of that
A) no full *** solo from anyone
B) no disneyesque legacy ride for boonen
C) no GVA or sagan win.
A) no full *** solo from anyone
B) no disneyesque legacy ride for boonen
C) no GVA or sagan win.
TRENDING THREADS
-
World Championship 2025: Men’s RR, September 28- Started by Berniece
- Replies: 2K
-
Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread- Started by DNP-Old
- Replies: 36K
-
Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread- Started by Lequack
- Replies: 41K
-
Il Lombardia 2025, monument, October 11- Started by Krzysztof_O
- Replies: 792
-
Teams & Riders The Great Big Cycling Transfers, Extensions, and Rumours Thread- Started by RedheadDane
- Replies: 13K
-
European Championship 2025: Men’s RR, October 5- Started by Berniece
- Replies: 854
-
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram