2010 Vuelta a España wildcards

[flicker]

Some bad politics with the shack being deleted. Could be the non happening Tour of Missouri which would have been a post tour victory parade by Contador.
Could be bad blood because Lance is riding these days and Valverde is warming the bench. All dictated by the omni- powerful Espana Footbol association.
They really decide if cycling goes under in Espana.

 

[icefire]

Saxo advertised that the Schleck brother were just there for training, there was no pretension that they'd do anything except possibly win a stage or help Fuglsang.

True. But this is something race organisers do not like and cannot avoid with current system. There are just quite a few teams with little incentive to perform well that get in automatically.

On a more on-topic line, I think that even if it's uncertain whether Klöden or Leipheimer could have contended for the win RS had better quality riders than some teams that did get invites and I am surprised they didn't get one. Only explanation that makes sense to me as that the Vuelta organisers are worried that the Landis scandal will blow up during the Vulta. I can understand if they didn't feel the RS contribution to the race was worth that risk.

Good point.

 

[offbyone]

The idea seems to be that Zubeldia or Jani could ride the Tour in domestique role and then ride for the overall at the Giro. Not likely. They could be there, but they wouldn't be serious GC contenders. See the 2009 Vuelta.

Zubeldia, Jani and Horner will not all ride the TdF. One of them will be motivated for GC. Guys like Machado and Rubiera definitely won't ride TdF and will have fresh legs and this could be a major target for them. Radioshack is deep. Can you even name 5 other squads that will be stronger?

Iban Mayo? Seriously, though I thought they might want Zubeldia as a sop to the first trip to the Basque country for years, he's not any more loved in the Basque country than any other rider who's pulled on the orange, even Samu, who's Asturian.


Who decrees who 'the best riders' are? Different riders for different tasks. If the best riders should always go, then the teams that get selected become totally inflexible and there's no natural movement or progression. Makes it very difficult for anybody to change levels.

Considering half the teams guaranteed to go are going to be sending their b-squad or tired out tdf riders, the vuelta should add the best teams they can to the extra spots.

Trust me, that wasn't the problem. Angelo Zomegnan and Lance Armstrong see eye to eye about as much as Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles.

Perhaps it is, but not participating in the Giro proved that they really did only care about the 2 races. The Vuelta might be a proving ground for budding GC talent, fought out by a few Spanish specialists, and riders whose other GC ambitions in the year faltered, or are salvaging injury-ravaged seasons, but they're trying to market their race, and if you treat it like that in public then it reflects badly on the race, and I can totally understand why that would make their presence damaging. If a team who don't care about the race make it seem worthless, then dominate it, or worse, don't dominate it, then that devalues the race.

Saying they don't care about the vuelta is just your opinion. They have never said it. Most vuelta teams have showed no more interest publicly than radioshack.

The Vuelta is the runt of the litter, but would the Lance, Levi and Klöden squad still be that good? Do you remember anything about that 2009 Astana team at the Vuelta? Quite clearly you don't. It was planned out and announced. The 9 riders were to be led by Klöden, with Horner and Zubeldia as superdomestiques. Klöden pulled out due to fatigue from the Tour shortly before the race. Even ignoring the farcical soap opera that led to Vino's replacing him, that should have been the first warning sign. Horner crashed out of the race on stage 4, and that's fair enough, that's bad luck, you can't help that. But Zubeldia fought on, but was fatigued from the Tour, and could only muster 14th. During the entire 3 weeks of the Vuelta I can only recall once when an Astana rider attacked - I believe Hernández was in the break on the stage Deignan won. When Bruyneel then talks of a team with Klöden, Zubeldia and Horner, Guillén probably thinks "they sold me down the river with that last year. To hell with that", and who can blame him?.

We aren't talking about Astana, we are talking about radioshack. I was suggesting a lance, levi, kloden free team not the opposite. You are being disingenuous if you don't think radioshack is going to have a bunch of fresh riders. You don't think Machado would race hard? Jani? If horner or zubeldia don't ride the tour they would be motivated. Rubiera? These guys would be very motivated and take this race seriously.

Nonsense. Good teams went but sent riders who didn't give a crap. That's what happened at Cali. The way to elevate the quality of talent is to elevate the quality of competition, not vice versa. If you have top level talent but no desire to win, you'll get something like California. What you have in the Vuelta is a race that is historic and prestigious, but is fought over by slightly lesser talents. They could still viably have Sastre, Menchov, Arroyo, Nibali, Mosquera, Sánchez, Antón, Rodríguez, and possibly even Contador. That's not a bad lineup of competition, you know.

I would rather have riders who aren't the absolute élite fighting it out than riders who are the absolute élite not giving their all and not caring. The same should apply to teams too.

I totally agree but again my same point as above. You said yourself, radioshack has a deep team of 25 riders. They have had a light schedule this year. There are a ton of fresh riders on their team that would be motivated.

 

[hrotha]

Some bad politics with the shack being deleted. Could be the non happening Tour of Missouri which would have been a post tour victory parade by Contador.
Could be bad blood because Lance is riding these days and Valverde is warming the bench. All dictated by the omni- powerful Espana Footbol association.
They really decide if cycling goes under in Espana.

Care to elaborate?

 

[flicker]

Care to elaborate?

Soccer associations decide what happens in sports in Europe. Just as the Pro Football team owners negotiate with the NFL to decide who will win the Super Bowl in 10 years. Dishonest and corrupt. Spain has popular support for cycling. Soccer associations will kill pro-cycling there. Not doping, as the public does not care about doping. They just want to see their favorite rider win. I see the same thing in the forums here. Joe USA dopes but my guy doesn't. Or I got lapped by the US guy on Ephedra but Vino is on file with wikopedia as a blood doper in Le Tour. Or such and such US race is only a training race European cycling is where it is at. Same thing in the US.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

If RadioShack is so deep and strong, why they only 8th in the UCI rankings, behind even BMC?

 

[flicker]

If RadioShack is so deep and strong, why they only 8th in the UCI rankings, behind even BMC?

Prediction: Put Lance in the mix, have Bruyneel speak with the Soccer association, shack in the Vuelta. It is not about fair it is about mafia. Moose sorry you are not pre- pubescent. You probably are a teenager though. Welcome to pro sports!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Zubeldia, Jani and Horner will not all ride the TdF. One of them will be motivated for GC. Guys like Machado and Rubiera definitely won't ride TdF and will have fresh legs and this could be a major target for them. Radioshack is deep. Can you even name 5 other squads that will be stronger?

Considering half the teams guaranteed to go are going to be sending their b-squad or tired out tdf riders, the vuelta should add the best teams they can to the extra spots.

Well, it doesn't matter you whining about the decision or me trying to put words in Javier Guillén's mouth, the decision has been made. And the point is that, when Bruyneel's teams don't target a race in particular, they have a habit in the last couple of years of clogging up the lower half of the top 20 and not bringing anything to the race.

Saying they don't care about the vuelta is just your opinion. They have never said it. Most vuelta teams have showed no more interest publicly than radioshack.

No, but most of them have been guaranteed entry. Cervélo have expressed interest in the Vuelta (talking about giving Bos a runout there for example). Katyusha have expressed interest (talking about Rodríguez' chances for GC). Sky have expressed interest (talking about getting all of their riders a GC slot). Xaco and Andalucía have obviously expressed interest. Which just leaves Garmin and Shack.

We aren't talking about Astana, we are talking about radioshack. I was suggesting a lance, levi, kloden free team not the opposite. You are being disingenuous if you don't think radioshack is going to have a bunch of fresh riders. You don't think Machado would race hard? Jani? If horner or zubeldia don't ride the tour they would be motivated. Rubiera? These guys would be very motivated and take this race seriously.

So were Navarro, Vino and Hernández. I am suggesting a Lance, Levi, Klöden free team. But crucially, Bruyneel is not. He's suggesting Levi and Klöden on the longlist. Jani and Zubeldia could do something, or equally they could not. Machado and Brajkovic do not have proven GC records, though I think they could both be very interesting to watch - certainly more interesting than most of the Shack's riders that will go to the Tour. At the end of the day, though, it's more that the riders are paying for Bruyneel and Armstrong's ego-tripping and sense of entitlement. Javier Guillén is trying to do to Radioshack here what the Oman péloton did to Team Sky - "you're not as big as you think you are".

I totally agree but again my same point as above. You said yourself, radioshack has a deep team of 25 riders. They have had a light schedule this year. There are a ton of fresh riders on their team that would be motivated.

Yup, and it sucks for those 15 riders who won't get to ride a GT this year (9 Tour riders + Fuyu Li, who is off the road atm). But the general consensus this year has been that Radioshack haven't been interested in riding too many races, and because of the name value they bring to the table they can get any invites they please anyway. So they've behaved accordingly. Unipublic have stood up to them. I applaud them for doing so, but at the same time I'm also quite disappointed because I wanted to see Tiago Machado at a GT.

 

[Mambo95]

If RadioShack is so deep and strong, why they only 8th in the UCI rankings, behind even BMC?

On the other hand, if the only two races that they bother doing properly are the Tour and ToC, as is oft stated on here, how are they 8th?

 

[hrotha]

If RadioShack is so deep and strong, why they only 8th in the UCI rankings, behind even BMC?

Wouldn't that still put them firmly in the "good enough for the Vuelta" category?

Soccer associations decide what happens in sports in Europe. Just as the Pro Football team owners negotiate with the NFL to decide who will win the Super Bowl in 10 years. Dishonest and corrupt. Spain has popular support for cycling. Soccer associations will kill pro-cycling there. Not doping, as the public does not care about doping. They just want to see their favorite rider win. I see the same thing in the forums here. Joe USA dopes but my guy doesn't. Or I got lapped by the US guy on Ephedra but Vino is on file with wikopedia as a blood doper in Le Tour. Or such and such US race is only a training race European cycling is where it is at. Same thing in the US.

At the risk of sounding silly: wut.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

On the other hand, if the only two races that they bother doing properly are the Tour and ToC, as is oft stated on here, how are they 8th?

More importantly, how is BMC 7th?

As for your question, they're 8th because of two guys, really. JB and Horner. Their top guys, Lance, Levi, and Kloden haven't really done jack this year.

As I said before though, I think the RS riders are getting shafted here.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Wouldn't that still put them firmly in the "good enough for the Vuelta" category?.

Of course. Absolutely. This has nothing to do with RS "not being good enough."

 

[Mambo95]

More importantly, how is BMC 7th?

As for your question, they're 8th because of two guys, really. JB and Horner. Their top guys, Lance, Levi, and Kloden haven't really done jack this year.

As I said before though, I think the RS riders are getting shafted here.

I wasn't really disputing your point in particular, more the assertation that many make that they don't 'show-up' for other races - this shows that isn't really true. It's ironic that their top two scorers are the ones who were allegedly going to the Vuelta.

Personally, I'm not really fussed that they missed out, but I think they can rightly feel hard done by. I'm not sure what sort of team Garmin will come up with - several of their stars will be on their third GT. Or Sky for that matter. But I'm glad those two made it.

 

[python]

bruyneel said it was personally against him.

i wonder why does he think so ?

other than publicly dissing berto and siding with texas in 2009, has he done or said anything else to upset the spanish ?

or is he saying it's because of his association with armstrong who understandably is not idolised in spain the shack got the boot.

 

[Ferminal]

bruyneel said it was personally against him.

i wonder why does he think so ?

other than publicly dissing berto and siding with texas in 2009, has he done or said anything else to upset the spanish ?

or is he saying it's because of his association with armstrong who understandably is not idolised in spain the shack got the boot.

Come on JB, we've heard this one already.

"This isn't a penalty against Astana, this is a penalty against Johan Bruyneel and Lance Armstrong".

I recall HWSNBN saying something like that in 2008.

 

[icefire]

The truth is that Unipublic is protecting Bruyneel from the wrath of spanish fans

Bruyneel should do as he says: work to define a more objective set of rules to determine who qualifies to race. These rules should take into account not only global results but also the results in the last edition of the race in question. There are too many teams who get an automatic invite based on a good name list and then do nothing in the race, e.g., Bryneel's teams in the Vuelta except when he had Heras or Contador.

 

[python]

i got a chuckle when a singular tense became plural the instance bruyneel got the bad news.

he swore to fight for the rights of all professional teams when his one team was side lined.

he whines about the rights of all riders when only his riders wont compete.

this excessive self-identification with big causes and ‘everybody’ has been in my experience a reliable sign of manipulative jerks seeing themselves as the centre of the universe or paranoid psychotics.

 

[craig1985]

I haven't gone through all posts in the thread, but the problem is that there are too many teams getting a place automatically. Some sort of points based classification to determine teams getting in and a few wildcards would make a better system. On top of that, and in order to avoid teams getting in with nominal GC contenders but doing nothing, the previous year results should be taken into account in the points based qualification system. The Vuelta (or the Giro) doesn't need teams doing what Saxo did last year with the Schleck Bros, which is what Bruyneel teams usually do almost everywhere.

I don't believe Footon is worthy of a spot IMO, even though they had to be invited. They were absent during the Giro, I mean even Cofidis and Bbox won a stage each FFS. I would of left them of the Giro and given it to ISD and then given it to either Skil or Vacan.

 

[flicker]

i got a chuckle when a singular tense became plural the instance bruyneel got the bad news.

he swore to fight for the rights of all professional teams when his one team was side lined.

he whines about the rights of all riders when only his riders wont compete.

this excessive self-identification with big causes and ‘everybody’ has been in my experience a reliable sign of manipulative jerks seeing themselves as the centre of the universe or paranoid psychotics.

Cycling is a mafia. Perhaps Bruyneel and Armstrong have been banished from the mafia. I know athletes in football and pro-cycling who have been banished. It is quite common.

Bruynell has a right to gripe. Most who have been banished havn't a voice.ie Simeoni, Kashetken, Chicken and until recently Landis.

I have noticed most actors, athletes politicians in the limelight are jerks. ie: Lance, Valverde,Basso,Vino Bonds etc. Comes with the territory.

 

[rxgqgxnyfz]

I have noticed most actors, athletes politicians in the limelight are jerks. ie: Lance, Valverde,Basso,Vino Bonds etc. Comes with the territory.

Pray, tell me the number of your dealer. He seems to be selling the greatest *** ever.
________
milf Cams

 

[flicker]

Pray, tell me the number of your dealer. He seems to be selling the greatest *** ever.

First become a senior member. Then tell me who your role models in sports and acting. Then I will cut them up and show you the frauds they are. Then you can have the number of my dealer.

 

[watcher]

First become a senior member. Then tell me who your role models in sports and acting. Then I will cut them up and show you the frauds they are. Then you can have the number of my dealer.

Wow...aren't you cool...a guy with nothing better to do with his life than sit around posting all day long, everyday, and brags about it. You are right; your status here, and no doubt likewise elsewhere, is a testament to your authority and wisdom. Combine that with your apparent ability to dissect the ethos of all professional athletes, and actors no less, and expose them all for frauds (I am sure from personal knowledge and not TMZ….right?), and call me impressed. Surely it was your duty to try to squash any lowly poster, who can only dream of ascending to your status, who would question anything you choose to spew. Certainly he will never again post a commentary without carefully thinking about the truth that lies behind it. Lesson well learned.

 

[watcher]

How, with a straight face, can the Vuelta director infer that the reason Radio Shack got left out is because of doping allegations? Now how many teams are participating that had guys get suspended for doping in the last 24 months? How is RS any different than 20 or so of the other teams? I am sure he had no such thoughts about Xacobeo Galiciahttp://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ex-xacobeo-doctor-launches-attack-on-pino…. or Andalucia - Cajasur http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vazquez-hueso-suspended-for-epo-use? No offense to those who don’t like some of RS’s personalities, but having them in the race makes it more competitive and interesting. Personally, I would love to see Horner take a serious swing at GC. But this is what makes cycling great, race directors always select teams based on merit, and not personal jealousies.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I have noticed most actors, athletes politicians in the limelight are jerks. ie: Lance, Valverde,Basso,Vino Bonds etc. Comes with the territory.

Why is Basso a jerk? I've spoken with people who have had close contact with him and all speak of how down-to-earth he is. I don't know about Vino or Valverde.

But actors, politicians. Most are turd nozzles.

 

[Race Radio]

http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderr...he-real-reason-radioshacks-not-in-the-vuelta/

Joe Lindsey's take