2010 Vuelta a España wildcards

[offbyone]

http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderr...he-real-reason-radioshacks-not-in-the-vuelta/

Joe Lindsey's take

Did you see the new article on cyclingnews

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vuelta-boss-defends-team-selections

Pressed on whether RadioShack boss Johan Bruyneel had given him assurances that the likes of Levi Leipheimer, Andreas Klöden, Chris Horner, Janez Brajkovic and Haimar Zubeldia would be in the team's Vuelta line-up, Guillén said, "I can't deny they were on the list. He sent me details of starters and reserves."

So apparently radioshack did make their interest in the vuelta known.

 

[Anonymous]

Did you see the new article on cyclingnews

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vuelta-boss-defends-team-selections



So apparently radioshack did make their interest in the vuelta known.

And fortunately, Uni didn't give a sh!t.

 

[BroDeal]

Did you see the new article on cyclingnews

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vuelta-boss-defends-team-selections

So apparently radioshack did make their interest in the vuelta known.

RS was going to send Brakjovik and Horner as the leaders. No Leipheimer. No Kloden. Last year Bruyneel promised Kloden, and Kloden was too tired from the Tour. Aside from the subpar GC leaders, Bruyneel teams are not known for stage wins or livening a race. The team was simply not good enough. Garmin, on the other hand, will be in the hunt for stage wins to show RS how it is done.

 

[flicker]

Wow...aren't you cool...a guy with nothing better to do with his life than sit around posting all day long, everyday, and brags about it. You are right; your status here, and no doubt likewise elsewhere, is a testament to your authority and wisdom. Combine that with your apparent ability to dissect the ethos of all professional athletes, and actors no less, and expose them all for frauds (I am sure from personal knowledge and not TMZ….right?), and call me impressed. Surely it was your duty to try to squash any lowly poster, who can only dream of ascending to your status, who would question anything you choose to spew. Certainly he will never again post a commentary without carefully thinking about the truth that lies behind it. Lesson well learned.

TMZ is that the name of the University you went to College? Or is it the new PED I need to place in the top 10 at the local masters race?
Yes I have the dirt on everyone in the world. I read the Enquirer and people whilst waiting in the checking out line.
But to be a true ace in Cycling news forum you need to know how to triple bill your law clients while theorizing how Lance is going to hole up with Bubba@ Attica after Floyd Manzano spills his guts. Or how unfair the cyclingworld is that Ephedra King Bidet makes millions while I sit at home with my home detention anklet.
I am quitting cyclingnews so that I too can get a Law Degree and be paid to blog.

 

[flicker]

Why is Basso a jerk? I've spoken with people who have had close contact with him and all speak of how down-to-earth he is. I don't know about Vino or Valverde.

But actors, politicians. Most are turd nozzles.

Basso I just do not trust the guy. To smooth to nice looking. The Fuentes thing to me is business as usual. I would prefer the PED users have good Doktors. It is safer and healthier. I do not trust the nice guys like Basso. The kids on the podium, with the doping accusations rub me the wrong way. Same with the Boss, Piti and vino the guy who talks up his family relationship.

 

[rxgqgxnyfz]

Basso I just do not trust the guy. To smooth to nice looking. The Fuentes thing to me is business as usual. I would prefer the PED users have good Doktors. It is safer and healthier. I do not trust the nice guys like Basso. The kids on the podium, with the doping accusations rub me the wrong way. Same with the Boss, Piti and vino the guy who talks up his family relationship.

Maaan, your weed just keeps growing stronger and stronger day by day.

Way to go, pal!

* is in eternal envy cause i'm still 46 years left to become a senior and senile enough to make statements of these scale of arrogance.
________
LovelyWendie99

 

[offbyone]

RS was going to send Brakjovik and Horner as the leaders. No Leipheimer. No Kloden. Last year Bruyneel promised Kloden, and Kloden was too tired from the Tour. Aside from the subpar GC leaders, Bruyneel teams are not known for stage wins or livening a race. The team was simply not good enough. Garmin, on the other hand, will be in the hunt for stage wins to show RS how it is done.

Feel free to ignore the quoted facts there if you want. But even if it was Brakjovik and Horner that would make for a great squad. In case you didn't notice Brakjovik won a very important stage race recently and Horner won another big spanish race, the Basque country tour. So please explain to me what would be wrong with those two as leaders?

Real gc contenders bring a lot more to the race than stage hunters.

 

[Barrus]

Real gc contenders bring a lot more to the race than stage hunters.

With this I do not agree. Last year for example, I think the included Spanish teams and Vacansoleil brought more to the table than Astana and they were also more interesting than Evans. Also Cunego was real interesting and he only went for stages. In my mind the more stage hunters the more interesting most races become, because that way each and every day becomes a race, while the GC contenders often take a defensive position, which quite often is not tha interesting, with the exception of a few stages

 

[tgsgirl]

Real gc contenders bring a lot more to the race than stage hunters.

Disagree,for the record.

 

[BroDeal]

Feel free to ignore the quoted facts there if you want. But even if it was Brakjovik and Horner that would make for a great squad. In case you didn't notice Brakjovik won a very important stage race recently and Horner won another big spanish race, the Basque country tour. So please explain to me what would be wrong with those two as leaders?

You mean like this fact from Chechu: "There is no justification for this based on sporting criteria. We were going to take Brajkovic, Horner, Haimar Zubeldia and Steegmans."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/widespread-shock-at-radioshacks-vuelta-exclusion

Once again, Bruyneel's team is caught in a lie. They have been telling the press about the strong team they could have sent to the Vuelta, but the riders on the team knew that they would send a weak ass excuse for a team that would have ridden around Spain and done nothing of note.

Real gc contenders bring a lot more to the race than stage hunters.

Sounds like someone who checks the GC results at the end of a stage race instead of actually watching the race. No one cares if Brakjovic or Horner end up in sixth or ninth place by hanging on to the back end of the first group in a few mountain stages while the rest of the team does nothing but ride in the peloton on the other stages. There are three weeks worth of stages. The viewers would like to see good racing on every stage. Bruyneel's teams have a p!ss poor record of providing interesting racing. Count the number of GT stage wins by team members other than a leader like Armstrong or Contador and it is remarkable how small the total is.

 

[offbyone]

You mean like this fact from Chechu: "There is no justification for this based on sporting criteria. We were going to take Brajkovic, Horner, Haimar Zubeldia and Steegmans."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/widespread-shock-at-radioshacks-vuelta-exclusion

Once again, Bruyneel's team is caught in a lie. They have been telling the press about the strong team they could have sent to the Vuelta, but the riders on the team knew that they would send a weak ass excuse for a team that would have ridden around Spain and done nothing of note.



Sounds like someone who checks the GC results at the end of a stage race instead of actually watching the race. No one cares if Brakjovic or Horner end up in sixth or ninth place by hanging on to the back end of the first group in a few mountain stages while the rest of the team does nothing but ride in the peloton on the other stages. There are three weeks worth of stages. The viewers would like to see good racing on every stage. Bruyneel's teams have a p!ss poor record of providing interesting racing. Count the number of GT stage wins by team members other than a leader like Armstrong or Contador and it is remarkable how small the total is.

First of all I doubt Brakjovic or Horner would be hanging on the back during any mountain stage. Did you not watch the Alpe d'Huez stage of the dauphine where Brakjovic dueled with Contador until the end? Did you watch any of the basque country tour? Horner was always in the mix. The cream always rises to the top on the big stages.

In a stage race the ultimate goal is to win the overall. That should be the objective for all serious teams. Of course it is great to have exciting stages, but if you want the whole race to have a culmination you need GC contenders competing for the stages not just stage hunters.

 

[Barrus]

In a stage race the ultimate goal is to win the overall. That should be the objective for all serious teams. Of course it is great to have exciting stages, but if you want the whole race to have a culmination you need GC contenders competing for the stages not just stage hunters.

So according to you neither Garmin nor Columbia nor Quickstep can be seen as serious teams. Also that way you'll never get smaller teams in a stage race, which stunts the growth of those riders

 

[Zoncolan]

First of all I doubt Brakjovic or Horner would be hanging on the back during any mountain stage. Did you not watch the Alpe d'Huez stage of the dauphine where Brakjovic dueled with Contador until the end? Did you watch any of the basque country tour? Horner was always in the mix. The cream always rises to the top on the big stages.

In a stage race the ultimate goal is to win the overall. That should be the objective for all serious teams. Of course it is great to have exciting stages, but if you want the whole race to have a culmination you need GC contenders competing for the stages not just stage hunters.

There's a world of difference between a week long stage race (Pais Vasco, Dauphine) and a GT

 

[offbyone]

So according to you neither Garmin nor Columbia nor Quickstep can be seen as serious teams. Also that way you'll never get smaller teams in a stage race, which stunts the growth of those riders

Take it how you like, but that is not what I said. The whole point of a grand tour is GC and other overall palmares. The stage wins are great, can be prestigious and sometimes make for some exciting racing but the overall dynamics of the race should be driven by the GC contenders or at least contenders for the other jerseys like points. If there are no contenders for the overall GC and various overall competitions, then what is the point of having a stage race? Just have a bunch of single day races.

There's a world of difference between a week long stage race (Pais Vasco, Dauphine) and a GT

No doubt. But it still speaks to their capabilities in stage races.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

No doubt. But it still speaks to their capabilities in stage races.

Yep. The same way BP's success at shallow drilling spoke to their success drilling at 5,000 feet.

 

[offbyone]

Yep. The same way BP's success at shallow drilling spoke to their success drilling at 5,000 feet.

Winners of Tour of the Basque Country for last 10 years:

2000 GER Kloden, Andreas(GER)
2001 LTU Rumsas, Raimondas(LTU)
2002 ESP Osa, Aitor (ESP)
2003 ESP Mayo, Iban(ESP)
2004 RUS Menchov, Denis(RUS)
2005 ITA Di Luca, Danilo(ITA) Liquigas-Bianchi
2006 ESP Gomez Merchante, Jose AngelESP) Saunier Duval-Prodir
2007 ESP Cobo, Juan Jose (ESP) Saunier Duval-Prodir
2008 ESP Contador, Alberto(ESP) Astana
2009 ESP Contador, Alberto(ESP) Astana
2010 USA Horner, Chris(USA)

Winners of Critérium du Dauphiné last 10 years

1999 KAZ Kazakhstan Vinokourov, AlexanderAlexander Vinokourov (KAZ) Casino-AG2R Prévoyance
2000 USA Hamilton, Tyler(USA) US Postal
2001 FRA Moreau, Christophe(FRA) Festina
2002 USA Armstrong, Lance(USA) US Postal
2003 USA Armstrong, Lance(USA) US Postal
2004 ESP Mayo, Iban(ESP) Euskaltel-Euskadi
2005 ESP Landaluze, Inigo(ESP) Euskaltel-Euskadi
2006 USA Leipheimer, LeviLevi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner
2007 FRA Moreau, Christophe(FRA) AG2R Prévoyance
2008 ESP Alejandro(ESP) Caisse d'Epargne
2009 ESP Valverde, Alejandro(ESP) Caisse d'Epargne
2010 SLO Brajkovic, Janez(SLO) Team RadioShack

So none of these guys are grand tour contenders?

 

[BroDeal]

I vote that all GTs should only invite the few--very few--teams that have a rider who can win the GC. It will be so much easier to follow the races when there are only four or five teams. Plus, this will really help Phil Ligget identify riders.

Or we could have GT sudden death racing. As each team's GC contender has his chances at the overall eliminated, we throw the team out of the race. By the end of the race there will be only one team remaining. "Twenty-two teams go in, one team comes out. It's sudden death in Spain. Be there!!! TRUCKASAURUS!!!!"

 

[BroDeal]

Winners of Tour of the Basque Country for last 10 years:

How long do you think it will take for Horner to develop into an GT winner? Good thing his potential has been identified at such a young age. I see a bright future ahead for his new talent.

 

[tgsgirl]

If there are no contenders for the overall GC and various overall competitions, then what is the point of having a stage race? Just have a bunch of single day races.

There will always be contenders. If a so-called big gun doesn't show up for that ninth place then someone else will. And they'll fight for it. Maybe even more so than the big gun (examples: Richie Porte, Brad Wiggins... you didn't expect them up there, but they stepped up). You seem to think that the guys that get a chance now that RS can't go won't care, or won't do their absolute utmost best to keep their position. Who cares if it's Horner fighting for fifth or Joachim Rodriguez, or Zeke Mosquera, or ... someone will fight for it. Maybe it won't be your favourite rider, or someone from your favourite team, but so what? Someone will always have to miss out. This time it's the Shack.

 

[tgsgirl]

So none of these guys are grand tour contenders?

The overwhelming majority of birds can fly. An ostrich is a bird. Therefore, an ostrich can fly.

That's what you just did there.

 

[kurtinsc]

There will always be contenders. If a so-called big gun doesn't show up for that ninth place then someone else will. And they'll fight for it. Maybe even more so than the big gun (examples: Richie Porte, Brad Wiggins... you didn't expect them up there, but they stepped up). You seem to think that the guys that get a chance now that RS can't go won't care, or won't do their absolute utmost best to keep their position. Who cares if it's Horner fighting for fifth or Joachim Rodriguez, or Zeke Mosquera, or ... someone will fight for it. Maybe it won't be your favourite rider, or someone from your favourite team, but so what? Someone will always have to miss out. This time it's the Shack.

The only problem with that line of thought is you're basically saying it doesn't matter who gets invited. It's kind of like saying that having the Tour without Saxobank, Astana, Rabbobank and Liquigas would still be just as good because lesser riders would get to fight for a win.


Yeah... Sastre won the Tour in 2008. The racing may have been better because Contador wasn't there. But I'd still rather have seen Astana in the race. People are excited about the Tour this year because many top riders who weren't here last year are taking part this season... it's GOOD to have more quality GC riders present I think.

 

[offbyone]

I vote that all GTs should only invite the few--very few--teams that have a rider who can win the GC. It will be so much easier to follow the races when there are only four or five teams. Plus, this will really help Phil Ligget identify riders.

Or we could have GT sudden death racing. As each team's GC contender has his chances at the overall eliminated, we throw the team out of the race. By the end of the race there will be only one team remaining. "Twenty-two teams go in, one team comes out. It's sudden death in Spain. Be there!!! TRUCKASAURUS!!!!"

With the 16 team requirement the vuelta organizers were already forced to accept a lot of teams that have minimal interest in the vuelta and are only pursuing stage wins. So you would think they would choose the remaining slots wisely for teams that really do want to win the vuelta.

How long do you think it will take for Horner to develop into an GT winner? Good thing his potential has been identified at such a young age. I see a bright future ahead for his new talent.

You know I am having a tough time deciding if you are just being a troll with your comments or if I should take them seriously.

Obviously horner is old and either has it in him now or never. He has done pretty decent in a bunch of week long stage races. He has never had a chance at a grand tour. Frankly, I don't think he is capable of winning a TdF or even the Giro but the Vuelta is a bit more of an open book and he might have a shot.

There will always be contenders. If a so-called big gun doesn't show up for that ninth place then someone else will. And they'll fight for it. Maybe even more so than the big gun (examples: Richie Porte, Brad Wiggins... you didn't expect them up there, but they stepped up). You seem to think that the guys that get a chance now that RS can't go won't care, or won't do their absolute utmost best to keep their position. Who cares if it's Horner fighting for fifth or Joachim Rodriguez, or Zeke Mosquera, or ... someone will fight for it. Maybe it won't be your favourite rider, or someone from your favourite team, but so what? Someone will always have to miss out. This time it's the Shack.

That is not what i think at all. I think that the Vuelta was required to offer a bid to 16 teams no matter how good or bad of a team they were sending. WIth the remaining spots they were free to choose any team. IMO they played politics with their selection instead of picking the best teams. I think that is bad for the race.

The overwhelming majority of birds can fly. An ostrich is a bird. Therefore, an ostrich can fly.

That's what you just did there.

This is BS. What I showed is that these races have a history of high competition and big dog GC contenders winning them.

 

[tgsgirl]

This is BS. What I showed is that these races have a history of high competition and big dog GC contenders winning them.

History doesn't matter. Who Mayo beat in 2004 doesn't have any influence on who what Horner can do in a GC. Winning a race like Pais Vasco or Dauphiné means you can climb and TT well, as that's what it takes to win it. If you can do that over one week then there's a chance you can do it over three weeks as well, but you can't infer one from the other (not 1 -> 3 anyway).

2000 · Oscar Camenzind
2001 · Lance Armstrong
2002 · Alex Zülle
2003 · Aleksandr Vinokoerov
2004 · Jan Ullrich
2005 · Aitor González
2006 · Jan Ullrich
2007 · Vladimir Karpets
2008 · Roman Kreuziger
2009 · Fabian Cancellara

That's the Tour de Suisse palmares. Does that mean Fabian Cancellara is going to win (or even podium) in the Giro, TdF or Vuelta? No.

WIth the remaining spots they were free to choose any team.

Bingo bango, you got it.

 

[BroDeal]

Judging by these comments, I would say that someone is off by considerably more than one.

 

[offbyone]

History doesn't matter. Who Mayo beat in 2004 doesn't have any influence on who what Horner can do in a GC. Winning a race like Pais Vasco or Dauphiné means you can climb and TT well, as that's what it takes to win it. If you can do that over one week then there's a chance you can do it over three weeks as well, but you can't infer one from the other (not 1 -> 3 anyway).

2000 · Oscar Camenzind
2001 · Lance Armstrong
2002 · Alex Zülle
2003 · Aleksandr Vinokoerov
2004 · Jan Ullrich
2005 · Aitor González
2006 · Jan Ullrich
2007 · Vladimir Karpets
2008 · Roman Kreuziger
2009 · Fabian Cancellara

That's the Tour de Suisse palmares. Does that mean Fabian Cancellara is going to win (or even podium) in the Giro, TdF or Vuelta? No.

First of all that isn't a fair comparison. The Tour de Suisse is not as hard as the dauphine and the tour of basque country. However, this year had more climbing than most years. The lack of hills is why spartacus was able to win last year. This year finally had a climbing stage and look at his position.

But it does receive top competition because they are tuning up for the Tdf. And that is the main point. if you look at that list overall i certainly think you can infer that because of the top competition in a stage race most of the winners will go on to be good grand tour racers. They might not win a GT but they are competitive. Look at the list you put there and tell me i am wrong. So thanks for proving my point for me.

And by the way there is constantly talk about Cancellera losing a couple kilos and trying for TdF GC in a year when the course isn't quite as tough in the mtns.

So yes, I sure can infer. Your telling me that we can't infer the Tour de France is going to have top competition every year based on the past years? Give me a break. History of good competition brings more prestige to a race and breeds more competition. The vuelta could certainly use this.

Bingo bango, you got it.

Bingo bango?

So you are honestly telling me that if you had the choice you wouldn't choose the best teams?

You don't think the best teams make the race better, more competitive and more prestigious?