2011 Copenhagen World Championships: Elite Men Road Race

[spanky wanderlust]

of course riding 266km isn't 'easy'. For a WC race it is easy. You need to understand context. GB rode well, but don't over sell how good Wiggins, Froome & Thomas were. It was impossible for a break to get away and win. Saying they shut down the most excellent and motivated cyclists in the world is simply hyperbole. There were some good riders but don't over sell what the race was. It was broing and mundane. Are you going to keep a straight face and tell me that an attacking rider would of been able to win solo or in a small group on sunday? I didn't think so.

the very thought of you describing anyone else as hyperbolic is outrageously funny! and i mean that hyperbolically. this from the guy who said if cav won he would cry every day for a thousand years.

on the contrary, it is impossible to ignore how great the gb team was.

and if gb wasn't as strong, many thought it may have been possible to get away. but the brits controlled a motivated field of the best for the whole race. there is nothing 'easy' about that. my gawd, did you see the effort wiggo put in?

realistically, it was always going to be a sprint. my guess is that if goss had pipped cav instead of the other way around, your pov would be slightly different. am i wrong? would the race have been so terrible then?

 

[BroDeal]

and if gb wasn't as strong, many thought it may have been possible to get away.

The chapter about getting away on a dead flat course when the sprinters' teams want to keep it together must have been left out of my copy of Bike Racing 101. Maybe you could enlighten us as to how this was supposed to occur.

 

[spanky wanderlust]

The chapter about getting away on a dead flat course when the sprinters' teams want to keep it together must have been left out of my copy of Bike Racing 101. Maybe you could enlighten us as to how this was supposed to occur.

bro deal. bd. is it a coincidence that you share initials with the comically acerbic character from doonesbury? i think not.

the short answer is that it could not have, given the dominance of the british team. ha ha. listen to me. maybe i am becoming a wiggo fanboy.

you already know this. it was ALWAYS going to be a sprint, as long as the team with the best sprinter (oh, and tt silver, btw. oh...and vuelta runner up, btw) was storming in unity to bring him into the last km.

along the way they shut down some of my faves. hoogey and tommy were standouts among them.

in the end it comes down to strategy and tactics and playing the cards you have. gb had a favorable hand to say the least. and they played it perfectly. and executed the finish.

 

[PCutter]

All power to Team GB for delivering Cav to the line, but I think you're overplaying their strength a little bit. Do you not think if Cav was German a team of Martin, Kloden, Grabsch, Gretsch and Burghardt et al couldn't have kept the race in check just as well on that course? Or an Australian a team of Cadel, Bobridge, Hansen, Rogers, O'Grady? Or an Or a Spanish team of Contador, S Sanchez, LL Sanchez, Zubeldia? Or an Italian team of Nibali, Pinotti, Malori, Tosatto?.....

The credit goes to Brailsford for ensuring enough UK riders scored points during the year to qualify a near full 9 rider roster. They rode well, but any major nation with Cav in their team could have just as easily rode as well.

 

[spanky wanderlust]

All power to Team GB for delivering Cav to the line, but I think you're overplaying their strength a little bit. Do you not think if Cav was German a team of Martin, Kloden, Grabsch, Gretsch and Burghardt et al couldn't have kept the race in check just as well on that course? Or an Australian a team of Cadel, Bobridge, Hansen, Rogers, O'Grady? Or an Or a Spanish team of Contador, S Sanchez, LL Sanchez, Zubeldia? Or an Italian team of Nibali, Pinotti, Malori, Tosatto?.....

The credit goes to Brailsford for ensuring enough UK riders scored points during the year to qualify a near full 9 rider roster. They rode well, but any major nation with Cav in their team could have just as easily rode as well.

no doubt. as i have pointed out repeatedly. this was a complete effort. cav's job was to finish. it would have been a great disservice had he NOT won.

 

[sublimit]

All power to Team GB for delivering Cav to the line, but I think you're overplaying their strength a little bit. Do you not think if Cav was German a team of Martin, Kloden, Grabsch, Gretsch and Burghardt et al couldn't have kept the race in check just as well on that course? Or an Australian a team of Cadel, Bobridge, Hansen, Rogers, O'Grady? Or an Or a Spanish team of Contador, S Sanchez, LL Sanchez, Zubeldia? Or an Italian team of Nibali, Pinotti, Malori, Tosatto?.....

The credit goes to Brailsford for ensuring enough UK riders scored points during the year to qualify a near full 9 rider roster. They rode well, but any major nation with Cav in their team could have just as easily rode as well.

You are probably right, Germany in particular had real horsepower in their team and would of done just as good a job.
Wiggins was awsome though and when he pulled over GB got kind of swamped untill Stannard restored some order. Its the only time they missed a beat so credit for their performance.

Some of Chris Froome's early work where pulled the bunch at 45kph or so for seemingly several hours was incredible - there probably would of been only handful of riders in there that could of performed like that.

 

[will10]

I am struggling to see how Brailsford masterminded getting enough riders to score points to get a (nearly) full roster for the Worlds?

 

[will10]

You are probably right, Germany in particular had real horsepower in their team and would of done just as good a job.
Wiggins was awsome though and when he pulled over GB got kind of swamped untill Stannard restored some order. Its the only time they missed a beat so credit for their performance.

Some of Chris Froome's early work where pulled the bunch at 45kph or so for seemingly several hours was incredible - there probably would of been only handful of riders in there that could of performed like that.

...and they all ride for HTC

 

[LugHugger]

Well, for a start there will be the constant embarrassment of the World Champions jersey leading in the grupetto on every mountain-ish stage of whichever tours he enters: more grupetto finishes than attempts to win! It will be impossible to explain to the less knowledgeable masses who watch the Tour on tv, although it will be interesting to hear Phil and Paul try.

However, Mission Accomplished for Fat Pat and the UCI: someone from the British Isles will wear the WC Stripes in the London Olympics Men's RR. Politics approved this course.

(any bets that Martin is somehow shunted out of his jersey before the Olympics?)

apologies if someone has already said all this, I haven't read the whole thread

Oh, please How many races have holders of the WC won in recent years? And how many times do you think that Cavendish will cross the line in the WC jersey with his arms raised?

 

[Kwibus]

Thus, Gilbert is not worthy of his win in Cureghem because it was flat and he's not a sprinter. Or he's not worthy of his two wins in Paris-Tours?

Jelle Nijdam and Willy Teirlinck were unworthy of most of their wins because they were no sprinters but attacked under the red flame.

I repeat. It has nothing to do with the course, but with the riders. Cavendish like most modern sprinters is a disgrace. The race didn't suck because it was flat, it sucked because a wheelsucker won. The Walloon Arrow is hilly but it's the same scenario too. So it sucks all the same.



THEY deserve the win but not Cav ! Key difference. Cav did not work his *** off !

I was merely saying that if the race ended in a bunchsprint that Cavendish is the one that most deserved to win. I would've loved it if it didn't end up in a bunchsprint for obvious reasons.

 

[Midnightfright]

I am struggling to see how Brailsford masterminded getting enough riders to score points to get a (nearly) full roster for the Worlds?

Well I guess that would probably related to having Stannard go for sprints in Poland and sneaking Cummings into top 10 overall and those 2 getting points opened up 2 lore spots for GB. The other points scorers of the top of my head Wiggans and Millar were always going to score points in atleast one Timetrial, Swift and obviously Cav were going to get placements in the sprints which would provide points and Geraints good showing all season wasn't overly shocking just a natural progression. I think the main thing was Wiggins improved results inparticular moving GB up the nations leaderboard allowing more guys to get in.

 

[auscyclefan94]

the very thought of you describing anyone else as hyperbolic is outrageously funny! and i mean that hyperbolically. this from the guy who said if cav won he would cry every day for a thousand years.

on the contrary, it is impossible to ignore how great the gb team was.

and if gb wasn't as strong, many thought it may have been possible to get away. but the brits controlled a motivated field of the best for the whole race. there is nothing 'easy' about that. my gawd, did you see the effort wiggo put in?

realistically, it was always going to be a sprint. my guess is that if goss had pipped cav instead of the other way around, your pov would be slightly different. am i wrong? would the race have been so terrible then?

yes, because believe it or not some of other posters are hyperbolic and naive as well. Disagree with me or not, I will argue and ebate my point of view and I can admit when I am wrong or somebody knows more than me. saying that I would cry for a thousand years is totally false and hyperbolic which is quite ironic after you criticised me for being hyperbolic. Many who had seen the U23 RR and women's road race saw it was inevitable that it was going to be a sprint. Very few people thought it was possible for an attacking rider to get away. It is totally incorrect to say that many thought an attacking rider could get away. Also look at the poll about would a sprinter win the WC. Most said it would come down to a bunch sprint. And it did. On such a course it is easy to control the raceJust ride tempo on the front. Eventutally the escape rider will be brought back in because they can only sustain such a speed to stay away for a little while and the chase riders have an advantage of sa slipstream.Of course Wiggins did a very good ride but carrying on like it was something we have never seen before is hyperbolic. btw, my opinions about the course have been the same before and after the race. Go through my post history. It was an average race no matter who won. I have always maintained that it was an ordinary course.

 

[Cimber]

I think this discussion will never end. We have had it since the course was announced and it was discussed alot back in the Zolder-days aswell. It really just boils down to preference:

Some ppl think that a WC race should never suit pure sprinter, but always be more like an ardenne classic, while others think its perfectly fine that every now and then there is a route favoring sprinters. Its a matter of preference and something ppl will never agree on. UCI seem to support the latter sentiment though.

 

[Anonymous]

unstickied time.

 

[pantsarefortheold]

I see feelings running strong here, so Im just going to mention that Im not trying to start anything here.

Since the talk just now was about teams controlling attacks and shepherding. Wouldnt a sprinter from a small country be disadvantaged? No team to controll or shield all trough the race. Say if the was an Icelandic guy called Manis Islandur or something like that with an acceleration like a leopard(not the lux ones) with rabies, in other words untouchable, would this years race still have ended with a big bunch sprinting it out?

Not relevant maybe but posting non the less.

 

[El Pistolero]

But why should uphill and hilly finishes have any relevance. You said this is a pure sprinters competition. This, you said, is their World Championship. Yet now hills have relevance?

They didn't. Cav had enough points to win if you just count the flat stages. But sprinters are supposed to be able to get over a few hills these days yes. So they normally have their relevance.

Cav's 5 stage wins, his second place on the stage Greipel won(hills in it) and his fifth place in the stage Farrar won were enough for Cavendish to win the green jersey. I'm not even counting any other stages or any of the intermediate sprints. Cavendish will always win the green jersey from now on simply because the rules don't allow any other type of cyclist a fair contest. Hence it is know most definitely a sprinters contest. And the best sprinter will always win it.

It NEVER was a contest. Cav was always going to win and this with a route that didn't even favor him! But the rules most certainly did.

 

[RedheadDane]

Since the talk just now was about teams controlling attacks and shepherding. Wouldnt a sprinter from a small country be disadvantaged? No team to controll or shield all trough the race. Say if the was an Icelandic guy called Manis Islandur or something like that with an acceleration like a leopard(not the lux ones) with rabies, in other words untouchable, would this years race still have ended with a big bunch sprinting it out?

Actually I've been thinking about something similarily. The thing is; if we were to be really nitpickery Isle of Man isn't really part of Great Britain. It's got some special "role" which I can't really explain... Imagine if the Manx riders had to compete as a nation of their own. The only people I can think of are Cavendish, Kennaugh and Bellis. (And I'm not even sure if Bellis is back in good enough shape to race the worlds yet...)

Just my random thoughts...

 

[El Pistolero]

We can ask Cavendish' brother if he's out of jail yet

 

[PCutter]

Well I guess that would probably related to having Stannard go for sprints in Poland and sneaking Cummings into top 10 overall and those 2 getting points opened up 2 lore spots for GB.

Correctamundo. Seemingly innocuous results for Sky which built into a well planned assault on the WCs

 

[Catwhoorg]

Correctamundo. Seemingly innocuous results for Sky which built into a well planned assault on the WCs

Meticulous planning and marginal gains.

Wonder where I have heard that before ...

 

[sublimit]

Actually I've been thinking about something similarily. The thing is; if we were to be really nitpickery Isle of Man isn't really part of Great Britain. It's got some special "role" which I can't really explain... Imagine if the Manx riders had to compete as a nation of their own. The only people I can think of are Cavendish, Kennaugh and Bellis. (And I'm not even sure if Bellis is back in good enough shape to race the worlds yet...)

Just my random thoughts...

They would still do better than Belgium on that course.

 

[mancsyboy]

World champion suggests the best cyclist in the world to me. Think we can all agree that wasn't Cav on sunday, but more like Froome or Wiggins.

If you want a title for the best sprinter in the world, well that already exists. It's called the green jersey in the Tour de France. The best sprinter won it and he had to fight harder for it than this WC title.

World champion suggests the person who won the race to me. World number one suggests the best cyclist. The rankings are basically the same format as the green jersey.

There were plenty of riders who have beaten Cav in field so it wasn't a foregone conclusion. GB and Cav road a perfect race

 

[El Pistolero]

They would still do better than Belgium on that course.

Let's break the wrist of their best rider as well then Let's see if they finish the race then

 

[El Pistolero]

World champion suggests the person who won the race to me. World number one suggests the best cyclist. The rankings are basically the same format as the green jersey.

There were plenty of riders who have beaten Cav in field so it wasn't a foregone conclusion. GB and Cav road a perfect race

The problem is that no one holds value to the UCI World Tour. If it had a rainbow jersey with vertical stripes than it would suggest the number one cyclist of the world. But it doesn't sadly.

I'm sorry, but it was a foregone conclusion as long as he didn't have any bad luck.

 

[sublimit]

Let's break the wrist of their best rider as well then Let's see if they finish the race then

You did better than the Dutch so I give you that. Boom going backwards was kind of amusing at the end.

But your guy Gilbert should of led out Roelandts but just sat up.