2011 Copenhagen World Championships: Elite Men Road Race

[cineteq]

Any chance that Cav will be more visible hanging onto cars with his new shirt??

I guess he won't be riding GTs anymore, it'd be too obvious this time around.

 

[daveinzambia]

you can make it hard. What everyone was relying on was for GB to do all the work and then Swamp them in the end or attack them when they had tired.

What happened was that GB didn't tire and at the end when they did swamp Cavendish was a lot better then them. Cavendish is a worthy champion as he and the team rode the smartest race.

that's the point. GB did not tire because the course was to easy. They were on the front all day, attacks went and were pulled back but the course did not do enough to soften up the sprinters teams and therefore give a more exciting finale.

 

[pmcg76]

In the time that I have followed this sport. The idea of the Worlds Championships was that it brought all the different types of riders together in a one-off race that didnt favour any one type of rider in particular. It has never been on rotation to suit variuos factions. Never. It was always held on a course that usually was variable to ensure it didnt suit one group more than others and as a result regularly seen a mixture of different riders competing for the win. Teams play a role but are not the major determining factor in deciding the outcome. We have now seen two Worlds in recent times that didnt meet this criteria and that is what is sad.

 

[richtea]

Any chance that Cav will be more visible hanging onto cars with his new shirt??

I don't think anyone has made that joke before

 

[Escarabajo]

In the time that I have followed this sport. The idea of the Worlds Championships was that it brought all the different types of riders together in a one-off race that didnt favour any one type of rider in particular. It has never been on rotation to suit variuos factions. Never. It was always held on a course that usually was variable to ensure it didnt suit one group more than others and as a result regularly seen a mixture of different riders competing for the win. Teams play a role but are not the major determining factor in deciding the outcome. We have now seen two Worlds in recent times that didnt meet this criteria and that is what is sad.

I don't remember ever favoring the sprinters in the past TBH. Well my memory only goes back to 1980. But I agree with you. The World Championship should not end on a big bunch sprint. I think some of the posters support that idea because their country man won, not because it makes the race more valuable. It is not for me anymore. Since few years back it has been dead for me.

 

[richtea]

How much difference would making the race an extra 5 laps have made?

 

[pmcg76]

I think it is also a misnomer to suggest that if there had been a hill then Gilbert would more than likely have won. Gilbert usually wins if there is an uphil finish or a hill within the last few km. A big hill say 8km from the finish would have been entirely different.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

How much difference would making the race an extra 5 laps have made?

meh.

I do think the short was too short tho, for an easier non-hilly wc anyway.

 

[richtea]

No difference? GB couldn't have held on much longer if it was raced as it was raced up to 250km. That hillock at the start of the circuit surely would have started causing some riders issues around 330kms...

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I don't remember ever favoring the sprinters in the past TBH. Well my memory only goes back to 1980. But I agree with you. The World Championship should not end on a big bunch sprint. I think some of the posters support that idea because their country man won, not because it makes the race more valuable. It is not for me anymore. Since few years back it has been dead for me.

You need to get your memory checked (I'll start up the camper-van)

1981.

I will happily admit that I have no idea what happened prior to 1985 nor do I know what the route of the 81 race was.

 

[Escarabajo]

You need to get your memory checked (I'll start up the camper-van)

1981.

I will happily admit that I have no idea what happened prior to 1985 nor do I know what the route of the 81 race was.

Touché.

Check the winners though. No Cavendish like rider. So my point stands half way.

Besides there have been quite a few sprints to win the Championships but I meant the big bunch sprints was rare or non-existant.

Check the winners. The winds started to change around the 2000's IMHO.

http://www.memoire-du-cyclisme.net/

Note: that Badger was really a good sprinter, so it would actually be hard to tell without knowing how many did finish in the lead group in that photo.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Touché.

Check the winners though. No Cavendish like rider. So my point stands half way.

Besides there have been quite a few sprints to win the Championships but I meant the big bunch sprints was rare or non-existant.

Check the winners. The winds started to change around the 2000's IMHO.

http://www.memoire-du-cyclisme.net/

Note: that Badger was really a good sprinter, so it would actually be hard to tell without knowing how many did finish in the lead group in that photo.

I was about to update my previous post - I found a video of that '81 finish.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDVJRQZJG3A

A group of about 30 came in together, even though the last few k went over a small incline.
30 riders is small in comparison to todays racing - but to your "big bunch" sprints point, while I agree with it - but looking back pre 80's big bunch finishes were rare in one day races. The racing has evolved over time.

Just to add - I went checking back as from memory I saw a previous clip from the 60's that ended in a sprint, but when I saw Maertens name I decided to check it.

 

[Maxiton]

Alright, I will concede that this year's course could have been more selective and still left Cav with a fighting chance. I also just realized that I haven't yet watched the whole five+ hours (I only watched maybe the last hour to forty-five minutes). But its over and Cav won and we have a pure sprinter in the World Champion's stripes. Not just any pure sprinter, however, but the man who will likely end up being considered the best sprinter ever.

EDIT: I also suspect this course isn't unique in the annals of World's races.

 

[roundabout]

Wait, so you don't need a flat course (a course in Prague I would guess was hillier than the one last Sunday) to have a group sprint at the worlds?

As it was before my time which of the riders in the front group were pure sprinters?

http://www.les-sports.info/cyclisme...esultats-hommes-s2-c0-b0-g146-t36-u53-v1.html

 

[pmcg76]

I think Pargue was relatively flat but then specialist sprinters like Cavendish didnt really exist back then, most of the top sprinter were also good all-round riders. Maertens, Saronni, Rass, Kelly, Vanderarden etc. Also lead out trains didnt really exist either.

On a side note, the Worlds TT is a specialist event that is still considered less prestigious than the road title because it is just that, a specialised event deisgned to suit a certain type of rider. The Road Race is still the event that is supposed to give everyone a relatively equal chance in the same race. It just didnt this year.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Wait, so you don't need a flat course (a course in Prague I would guess was hillier than the one last Sunday) to have a group sprint at the worlds?

As it was before my time which of the riders in the front group were pure sprinters?

http://www.les-sports.info/cyclisme...esultats-hommes-s2-c0-b0-g146-t36-u53-v1.html

It was before my time too - but it depends on what is viewed as a 'pure sprinter'?

Maertens was the 'sprinter du jour', he had won 5 stages and the Grenn jersey that years Tour.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I think Pargue was relatively flat but then specialist sprinters like Cavendish didnt really exist back then, most of the top sprinter were also good all-round riders. Maertens, Saronni, Rass, Kelly, Vanderarden etc. Also lead out trains didnt really exist either.

But isn't that the point - cycling has evolved.

I am sure there were people who looked at that 81 course and said it was designed for Maertens.
If you don't shake or tire the fastest finisher, then the fastest finisher will win - thats road racing, its the same as it ever was.

On a side note, the Worlds TT is a specialist event that is still considered less prestigious than the road title because it is just that, a specialised event deisgned to suit a certain type of rider. The Road Race is still the event that is supposed to give everyone a relatively equal chance in the same race. It just didnt this year.

Well no - the Time Trial is a Time Trial.
Sometimes the TT is hilly, sometimes the TT is flat.

This is the point that I still don't get - that the road race 'must' be some sort of selective course.

 

[AussieGoddess]

I think it's fine to have the occasional WC race that suits pure sprinters.

I don't, however, think it's fine to have a WC race that suits pure sprinters to the exclusion of absolutely everybody else.

but it wasnt to the exclusion of all else.

Before the race there were many who were saying it was not going to be an easy sprint. Gilbert, Cancellara and Hushovd were all as big a favourites as Cav was ....

His team had to work exceptionally hard to put him in the position to win it - so i do think that it was ok in that regard. (and yes I was one of the ones who swore loudly when he won )

As to everyone saying it was super boring ... did you watch the whole race, or just the last 40kms? The whole race was actually pretty interesting .... just the last 30km's or so were not so great because they had already tried everything, and were just praying it was going to be enough. And it nearly was.

Cav was left with no lead out. That was the plan ... and it worked.

Anyway - well done Cav. Crappy course, but he did ride well to win

 

[patterson_hood]

The Road Race is still the event that is supposed to give everyone a relatively equal chance in the same race. It just didnt this year.

This is the point that I still don't get - that the road race 'must' be some sort of selective course.

It seems that "giving everyone an equal chance" means eliminating Cav from the front bunch or having a finish where he hasn't got a chance... Although on a hilly course with a more selective ending surely the odds on Gilbert will be better than the odds on Cav on this course.

The fact is as a bunch of 80+ riders came in together then they all had an equal chance, all they had to do was beat Cav, they just couldn't. The fact Cav did it without a lead-out and against a very good lead-out from the Aussies shows how good his performance was.

 

[Captain_Cavman]

but it wasnt to the exclusion of all else.

Before the race there were many who were saying it was not going to be an easy sprint. Gilbert, Cancellara and Hushovd were all as big a favourites as Cav was ....

His team had to work exceptionally hard to put him in the position to win it - so i do think that it was ok in that regard. (and yes I was one of the ones who swore loudly when he won )

As to everyone saying it was super boring ... did you watch the whole race, or just the last 40kms? The whole race was actually pretty interesting .... just the last 30km's or so were not so great because they had already tried everything, and were just praying it was going to be enough. And it nearly was.

Cav was left with no lead out. That was the plan ... and it worked.

Anyway - well done Cav. Crappy course, but he did ride well to win

Cav did have a lead out, Stannard and Thomas, he just got separated from them. A green jersey, Brammeier? got in between Cavendish and Thomas as they were sneaking through along the barriers. Thomas went back for Cavendish but he was already on Goss's wheel and the rest is history.

 

[Escarabajo]

Wait, so you don't need a flat course (a course in Prague I would guess was hillier than the one last Sunday) to have a group sprint at the worlds?

As it was before my time which of the riders in the front group were pure sprinters?

http://www.les-sports.info/cyclisme...esultats-hommes-s2-c0-b0-g146-t36-u53-v1.html

Moser is like the equivalent of Cancellara today. Now Moser won the Giro one year but it was kind of fixed. Tough nevertheless. But then you have Millar and Lejarreta in the lead group. Those two were 100% pure climbers. So it tells you that the course was a little more selective.

Freddy Maertens was a very good rider in all terrains. Look what he did in 1977. Complete domination of the Vuelta a España:

1st, Overall, Vuelta a España:
Winner overall classification
Winner Prologue, stages 1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11a, 11b, 13, 16 & 19
Winner Points Classification

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddy_Maertens

In 1976 he was 8th in the Tour de France. What are the chances of Cav being 8th at the Tour winning the points classification?

 

[Hawkwood]

Caught some interview where Cav said he wanted to try to honour the jersey in the way that Thor had. Lost the link to this, but someone else might have it.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Moser is like the equivalent of Cancellara today. Now Moser won the Giro one year but it was kind of fixed. Tough nevertheless. But then you have Millar and Lejarreta in the lead group. Those two were 100% pure climbers. So it tells you that the course was a little more selective.

Freddy Maertens was a very good rider in all terrains. Look what he did in 1977. Complete domination of the Vuelta a España:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddy_Maertens

In 1976 he was 8th in the Tour de France. What are the chances of Cav being 8th at the Tour winning the points classification?

Do you know what the highlighted tells us.
That the depth of cycling wasn't there at the time. You will probably find 'pure climbers' stuck in may races that didn't suit them at the time - and many sprinters stuck in hilly races.

(I have raised this point before about the difference between cycling pre 90's & cycling now - the big change IMO was bigger teams that could specialize for events.)

 

[hatcher]

Caught some interview where Cav said he wanted to try to honour the jersey in the way that Thor had. Lost the link to this, but someone else might have it.

"If I can do the jersey justice half as well as Thor has this past year, I'll be happy," said Cavendish. "He's really done it proud this year. It's all about panache and showing that winning the jersey wasn't just a lucky ride, and that you worked for it."

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/530258/cavendish-this-is-for-great-britain.html

 

[Descender]

Next year's worlds in Valkenburg might end in a sprint as well. It's much softer than many people make it to be.