2011 Criterium du Dauphine - Stage 1: Albertville - Saint-Pierre-de-Chartreuse 144 km

[Michielveedeebee]

Gesink cracking wasn't a surprise especially on this type of climb. It doesn't really suit it isn't overly steep but it suits more 'power climbers'. Maybe he is trying to build his form up better. People prepare their bodies and form in different ways for GT's. Anyway, I think he will give the tt and the weekend mountain stages a crack.

maybe a little OT but as Jurgen won yesterday, Why do you hate the guy so much ?

 

[auscyclefan94]

maybe a little OT but as Jurgen won yesterday, Why do you hate the guy so much ?

I can't really explain on an open forum like this.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

I can't really explain on an open forum like this.

PM me then

 

[auscyclefan94]

Eurosport were saying that when Cadel is cracking he tilts his head. He always does that because of his childhood incidents. Amazing how people draw such conclusions.

 

[austy37]

Eurosport were saying that when Cadel is cracking he tilts his head. He always does that because of his childhood incidents. Amazing how people draw such conclusions.

i saw that too but thought maybe the comments were made tongue in cheek, i think he said 'when his adrenaline is up he tilts his head', anyway i think that comentator is quite fond of Cadel.
on another topic after reading about how cadel should not be riding hard this race to increase his chances at the tour of france i am not sure whether to root for him or not, but id like him to do well in both?

 

[Bavarianrider]

here is a good example at age 20 in giro regioni

Uitslag:
1 Tony Martin (Ger) German National Team 3.03.32
2 Filipe Gomes Sa' Rui (Por) Portuguese National Team 0.11
3 Robert Gesink (Ned) Dutch National Team 0.22
4 Riccardo Ricco' (Ita) Italian National Team 0.23
5 Roman Kreuziger (Cze) Czech Republic National Team
6 Alexandre Cabrera (Fra) French National Team
7 Eduardo Gonzalo Ramirez (Spa) Spanish National Team
8 Peter Velits (Svk) Slovakian National Team
9 Luigi Sestili (Ita) Italian National Team
10 Peeter Jacobs (Bel) Amuzza.Com - Davo
11 Simon Clarke (Aus) Australian National Team 0.27
12 Andrei Kunitski (Blr) Belarus National Team
13 Jaroslaw Dabrowski (Pol) Polish National Team
14 Michael Muck (Ger) German National Team 0.30
15 Marino J.Marc (Fra) French National Team

in fact most of his u23 wins came from climbing stages and not itt's. he was 2nd german climbing championships elite at age 20, won thueringer rundfahrt, 2nd in tour de avenir and at age 19 he won this climbing itt in regio tour:

1 Tony Martin (Ger) Gerolsteiner 33.43
2 Maxime Monfort (Bel) Landbouwkrediet-Colnago 0.09
3 Matthias Russ (Ger) Gerolsteiner 0.21
4 Nico Sijmens (Bel) Landbouwkrediet-Colnago 0.43
5 Björn Papstein (Ger) Team Lamonta 0.44
6 Rinaldo Nocentini (Ita) Acqua & Sapone-Adria Mobil 1.02
7 Holger Sievers (Ger) Team Lamonta 1.05
8 Gerhard Trampusch (Aut) Akud Arnolds Sicherheit 1.08
9 Sergey Yakovlev (Kaz) T-Mobile Team 1.23
10 Moises Aldape C. (Mex) Ceramica Panaria-Navigare 1.28

What a slap in the face for all the haters

 

[El Pistolero]

What a slap in the face for all the haters

No, it's just proof that U23 results are meaningless. Not that we needed more proof for that one.

Unless you think Jurgen van den Broeck has what it takes to destroy Martin at the World Championship time trial of course

 

[Bavarianrider]

No, it's just proof that U23 results are meaningless. Not that we needed more proof for that one.

Unless you think Jurgen van den Broeck has what it takes to destroy Martin at the World Championship time trial of course

Did van den Broeck ever destroy Tony at a U 23 time trial?

 

[El Pistolero]

Did van den Broeck ever destroy Tony at a U 23 time trial?

Junior champion of the world. With U23 I just mean all results under age 23, not the category.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Junior champion of the world. With U23 I just mean all results under age 23, not the category.

But was Tony in the race?

 

[profff]

The worst team? That's just plain untrue. I've always perceived it as a team were young riders get the chance to ride for themselves.

some think that fdj and madiot are protecting too much young riders, keeping them away from big races.
gilbert changed completely when left fdj and many french did not progress while they were there.
anyway i think that tdf this year is too early for pinot.
it is better for him too start later maybe with the vuelta.
he is too weak downhill and in the flat to do something in a demanding race like the tour.
he will probably be cooked after the first week
he is only 21, better to let him grow gradually, also ti avoid to much pression from the french media
early this year he was targeting the month pharaon stage in tour de mediterranee, but he got a flu few days before so he did not well.
on the french forum there was plenty of posts doubting about his qualities and skills just for that, imagine if he performs badly in the tour...

i have seen late in the night the final climb in tv.
very well van den bruck, also gat work from uran that has been used as a domestique for ebh and wiggins. he hammered in the easiest part of the climb after jurgen second move, bringing the group back close to the omega rider and making a good selection.
i was also impressed by evans , that was very brilliant in the steep part of the finale. he was in bad position but he was able to recover several metres on jro with ease, even if he was closed by ebh and pinot.
wiggins did well too, but the climb suited his qualities very well.

 

[El Pistolero]

He chickened out at the sight of VDB2.

 

[Bavarianrider]

He chickened out at the sight of VDB2.

Maybe cause he was only 16 teen back then?

 

[Winterfold]

Eurosport were saying that when Cadel is cracking he tilts his head. He always does that because of his childhood incidents. Amazing how people draw such conclusions.

Did you actually listen to what they were saying?

What they said was they thought that when he was up for it then he tilted his head - not when he was cracking. attacking/cracking I guess they sound the same when you dont really know what they mean

 

[El Pistolero]

Maybe cause he was only 16 teen back then?

No, definitely because he was a chicken. Definitely.

 

[Bavarianrider]

I wish van den Broeck would say that to Tonys face.
We'd know rather quickly who the chicken is

 

[boomcie]

some think that fdj and madiot are protecting too much young riders, keeping them away from big races.
gilbert changed completely when left fdj and many french did not progress while they were there.
anyway i think that tdf this year is too early for pinot.
it is better for him too start later maybe with the vuelta.
he is too weak downhill and in the flat to do something in a demanding race like the tour.
he will probably be cooked after the first week
he is only 21, better to let him grow gradually, also ti avoid to much pression from the french media
early this year he was targeting the month pharaon stage in tour de mediterranee, but he got a flu few days before so he did not well.
on the french forum there was plenty of posts doubting about his qualities and skills just for that, imagine if he performs badly in the tour...

Seems like the perfect team for now then

 

[El Pistolero]

I wish van den Broeck would say that to Tonys face.
We'd know rather quickly who the chicken is

Going to be hard if Martin is 1 hour behind.

 

[Winterfold]

I have deleted the discussion concerning the banning of a member. It was off topic and turning into an exchange of insults.

Susan

Susan - these threads are becoming unreadable because of the never-ending playground my favourite rider is better than yours stuff going on. The odd bit of banter and one or two posts about eg VDB2 whipping Gesink yesterday is great - but when it goes on and on and on and on it is really tiresome.

Hopefully some posters will reflect on how dull they are becoming, but if not please mod heavily on behalf of the rest of us

 

[El Pistolero]

Susan - these threads are becoming unreadable because of the never-ending playground my favourite rider is better than yours stuff going on. The odd bit of banter and one or two posts about eg VDB2 whipping Gesink yesterday is great - but when it goes on and on and on and on it is really tiresome.

Hopefully some posters will reflect on how dull they are becoming, but if not please mod heavily on behalf of the rest of us

Those posts weren't about Gesink or VDB. Hitch just asked why someone got banned.

 

[theyoungest]

Meh, shambles is stretching it. It was just a discussion between Hitch and I about a particular subject which was indeed off topic. However, there were no insults, name calling or anything of the kind; misunderstandings that caused some irritation yes, personal attacks no. Let that be clear.

-------------------------------

Af far as Gesink goes, I'm still not convinced until I see him ''peak'' at the Tour. This is very uncharacteristic of him, he's always right up there. His base condition is good like that, or at least I used to think so. I wonder if this time he's REALLY peaking a la Andy Schleck. Now that prospect makes the Tour the more interesting.
However, let's be honest, he didn't perform up to standards anywhere yet this season. Oman was good but against what opposition? TA and PV his time trialling got him on the podium which is great, but not at the expense of his climbing. The Ardennes he was underwhelming to put it nicely. I do not know what's happened to him but I'm hoping he'll make us forget all about it at the Tour.

Gesink told L'Equipe yesterday that this is the first time in his life that he didn't go in the red for very long. Apparently his DS told him that "if you have a bad day in the Tour, no one will remember that you had a great day in la Chartreuse". I think the plan for the build up to the Tour is that the real high intensity training only starts in the two weeks of altitude he'll do after the Dauphiné. He always gets into top form very quickly, and he has to avoid getting there now.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

M

Af far as Gesink goes, I'm still not convinced until I see him ''peak'' at the Tour. This is very uncharacteristic of him, he's always right up there. His base condition is good like that, or at least I used to think so. I wonder if this time he's REALLY peaking a la Andy Schleck. Now that prospect makes the Tour the more interesting.
However, let's be honest, he didn't perform up to standards anywhere yet this season. Oman was good but against what opposition? TA and PV his time trialling got him on the podium which is great, but not at the expense of his climbing. The Ardennes he was underwhelming to put it nicely. I do not know what's happened to him but I'm hoping he'll make us forget all about it at the Tour.

I think there are some plausible explanations regarding the TA-Basque-Ardennes form, which I think were some how motivation and/or mental related. This we might be always in the dark.

Regarding yesterday's stage tho, and his average ride.
Well to be fair, this is his first race day since LBL (almost 50 days without competitive racing, prologue can't possibly count) and personally yesterday looked more like "need more racing in the legs" than poor climbing. And yes Gesink usually does go for everything, but you could see in his style yesterday he wasn't too concerned about being dropped. I'm sure if he cared he could have really fought to stay up there. Like he did at TA and Basque. whilst not looking great. I suspect this has something to do with last year, where he was great at suisse and not so great at le tour.

And yes I understand Gesink might not be the only one who hasn't raced since LBL, and others who haven't (to be honest I am not keeping tab on who has done what) raced either did better, but it can still depend on training and how much effort said rider has put in prior to this race. For example Gesink trained like crazy prior to Oman because he wanted to be good and win for his dad, I doubt he did that before the Dauphine, he was more concerned about steady prep and form building from what I have read on his website and rabo web site.

Personally I think that the little racing in his legs, the relaxed attitude at the Dauphine and the altitude training prior and after the Dauphine are very positive signs for a strong Gesink at the tour.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Gesink cracking wasn't a surprise especially on this type of climb. It doesn't really suit it isn't overly steep but it suits more 'power climbers'. Maybe he is trying to build his form up better. People prepare their bodies and form in different ways for GT's. Anyway, I think he will give the tt and the weekend mountain stages a crack.

ehh gesink would never normally be dropped on this if he was in form and going all out.

Gesink told L'Equipe yesterday that this is the first time in his life that he didn't go in the red for very long. Apparently his DS told him that "if you have a bad day in the Tour, no one will remember that you had a great day in la Chartreuse". I think the plan for the build up to the Tour is that the real high intensity training only starts in the two weeks of altitude he'll do after the Dauphiné. He always gets into top form very quickly, and he has to avoid getting there now.

this is how it appeared to me also.
He just didn't go all out like we usually see from gesink, good or bad.

And yes like I said it my previous post, I don't think his training the last 2 weeks were that intense, because he is capable of being very good after a tough training session. More like his training was to get a feel of the mountains and adapt to the altitude and breathing (like he said on his website).

Lighter Training + almost 2 months of no racing, it would be unrealistic to expect a lot from his first race day. I still choose to find the positives from yesterday.

Samu is another example of this, wasn't great at the dauphine last year, but rode his best tour to date imo.

 

[The Hitch]

Those posts weren't about Gesink or VDB. Hitch just asked why someone got banned.

Ah but Winters post can be understood as reffering not neccesarily to the deleted content, but a general conclusion of why these threads are unreadable.

And considering Bavarian Rider has gone from- my favourite rider is better than everyone else, to- my favourite rider can beat up everyone else, I see his point.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Lol at ACF complaining about the Eurosport commentators being too critical of Evans. Usually they're a bunch of sycophants, Harmon in particular makes no effort to hide his man-love.