2011 Tour de France Stage 11: Blaye-les-Mines Lavaur 167.5 km

[El Pistolero]

I think El Pistelero's point is that is should be for the most consistent finisher on stages that suit Phil Gilbert.

In a couple of years Sagan will show Gilbert how it should be done.

My point is very simple: 45 points for medium mountain stages, 20-30 points for mountain(climbers already have GC and polkadots)

Cause Gilbert has been more consistent finisher than Cav. Medium mountain stages are also harder to control, so a breakaway will likely succeed anyway. You give less points for harder to win stages. Just doesn't make sense. I want the green jersey to be more than Cav jersey.

 

[FignonLeGrand]

Then why bother with it at all? Isn't winning 6 stages enough?

I want an epic battle for the green jersey like this year. But I'm smart enough to realize that this year it's only an epic battle because of the great parcours. A normal Tour has easier stages and that's what I'm afraid of. Cav winning them easily in the years to come under these new rules.

He has won 5 stages in a previous tour and not got the points jersey, I would rather have the best rider win yellow, the best spirinter win green and the best climber win polka dot. In past years we have seen riders do nothing other than target obscure climbs and intermediate points to win jerseys which doesnt really bring kudos to the race.

Huschovd winning green because he can break away on little climbs to win green or Virenque winning 7 polka dot jerseys (think it was seven) which classic climbs did he win for any of those 7?

 

[woodie]

They have nothing now as well. Instead of working for Greipel getting second they should have gotten Phil up there.

Why he's not fast enough to go top ten on a stage like that where as Griepel could win it.

 

[El Pistolero]

Why he's not fast enough to go top ten on a stage like that where as Griepel could win it.

Greipel can't win it. It's as dumb as going with Gilbert on an uphill finish.

 

[spalco]

Huschovd winning green because he can break away on little climbs to win green or Virenque winning 7 polka dot jerseys (think it was seven) which classic climbs did he win for any of those 7?

I agree, especially about the polka-dot jersey.

 

[El Pistolero]

He has won 5 stages in a previous tour and not got the points jersey, I would rather have the best rider win yellow, the best spirinter win green and the best climber win polka dot. In past years we have seen riders do nothing other than target obscure climbs and intermediate points to win jerseys which doesnt really bring kudos to the race.

Huschovd winning green because he can break away on little climbs to win green or Virenque winning 7 polka dot jerseys (think it was seven) which classic climbs did he win for any of those 7?

The rules are new now, so it hardly matters what happened last year or the year before.

 

[Jamsque]

In Cav's interview he said that Greipel's sprint yesterday was the best sprint he had ever seen from another rider, and claims he told Greipel as much during today's stage.

 

[woodie]

Greipel can't win it. It's as dumb as going with Gilbert on an uphill finish.

Ok that makes no sense. Griepel can win, as he proved yesterday, when he is looked after. And I'm not sure where your going with the second part unless there is a typo

 

[Benotti69]

I think El Pistelero's point is that is should be for the most consistent finisher on stages that suit Phil Gilbert.

In a couple of years Sagan will show Gilbert how it should be done.

i think the TdF and fans are having problems with the polka dot jersey and green jersey as they are being won by non traditional riders. If the green jersey becomes a sprinters jersey so be it. The polka dot has become the mountain breakaway riders jersey not the best climber's.

 

[El Pistolero]

Ok that makes no sense. Griepel can win, as he proved yesterday, when he is looked after. And I'm not sure where your going with the second part unless there is a typo

Greipel can win after a hard stage with some hills. That's what we saw yesterday. On a flat stage like this? Cav is very much unbeatable. Good for Cav, but that doesn't mean the other teams should just accept that and go with him to the finish.

And my second part is common sense: Phil is the Cav of uphill finishes. Why would you help him for example in bringing back Andy Schleck in the Amstel Gold race? Let him do it him self! Sure, he still won, but that's all they could have done anyway. Would have been pretty stupid of Rabo to help bring Andy back.

 

[thirteen]

the badger having a sly look at Hoogerland's wounds and giving a shrug too say yep Hoogerland is tough stuff.

yep!
10 charrrr

 

[woodie]

Greipel can win after a hard stage with some hills. That's what we saw yesterday. On a flat stage like this? Cav is very much unbeatable.

I agree. My point is they are better off going with Griepel who could take advantage of a mistake by Cav than going with Gilbert who can't get top ten or even fifteen

 

[Four Winds]

In Cav's interview he said that Greipel's sprint yesterday was the best sprint he had ever seen from another rider, and claims he told Greipel as much during today's stage.

Think the key word in that quote was ANOTHER

 

[Mambo95]

Cause Gilbert has been more consistent finisher than Cav.

Has he? What is consistency?

Cav has five top five, so has Phil
Cav: 5 1 1 2 1
PG: 1 5 2 2 4

The competition should about getting in the high placings, not scraping into the top 15 most often.

 

[FignonLeGrand]

I think El Pistelero's point is that is should be for the most consistent finisher on stages that suit Phil Gilbert.

In a couple of years Sagan will show Gilbert how it should be done.

Kelly was somewhat of an exception as he could climb very well in addition to being more than capable in the sprints. But he was still a formidable sprinter. The green Jersey is a sprinters jersey, unless won by GC guys such as Merckx or Jannsen.

Sagan is a good shout however as he also seems to have that unique mix of sprint and climb. Something Gilbert doesnt (or hasnt wonder how he will do on the proper climbs).

 

[El Pistolero]

Has he? What is consistency?

Cav has five top five, so has Phil
Cav: 5 1 1 2 1
PG: 1 5 2 2 4

The competition should about getting in the high placings, not scraping into the top 15 most often.

Let's not forget the breakaway that survived on 2 stages. Medium mountain stages aren't so easily controlled as flat stages. Which is another reason why they should give more than 30 points for the winner.

 

[FignonLeGrand]

The rules are new now, so it hardly matters what happened last year or the year before.

It does when you are claiming a sprinter now has an advantage, they always have. Thats exaclty the point

 

[El Pistolero]

Kelly was somewhat of an exception as he could climb very well in addition to being more than capable in the sprints. But he was still a formidable sprinter. The green Jersey is a sprinters jersey, unless won by GC guys such as Merckx or Jannsen.

Sagan is a good shout however as he also seems to have that unique mix of sprint and climb. Something Gilbert doesnt (or hasnt wonder how he will do on the proper climbs).

I think Phil can climb better, but Sagan could have made every final in this Tour so far and he's way faster on the flat. Definitely hope he'll beat Cav for the green jersey, but I fear next year will be 9+ flat stages again with easy finishes.

 

[El Pistolero]

It does when you are claiming a sprinter now has an advantage, they always have. Thats exaclty the point

A bigger advantage under the new rules. A battle between puncheurs and sprinters is more interesting to see than a battle between just sprinters. Don't you agree? If Cav wins this year than fine, it will have been interesting. But we all know how flat a Tour de France can get sometimes I just fear for a boring green jersey competition the next 5 years.

And Phil isn't going to go to the Tour next year.

 

[sublimit]

I'm not sure how Sagan can cope with the big climbs next year?. Someone like Jalabert is the ultimate green jersey rider because he was good at everything particularly sprints.

The Tour is not the TOC.

 

[FignonLeGrand]

I think Phil can climb better, but Sagan could have made every final in this Tour so far and he's way faster on the flat. Definitely hope he'll beat Cav for the green jersey, but I fear next year will be 9+ flat stages again with easy finishes.

Its obvious you dont like Cav or sprinters too much for that matter. And perhaps you are right that we should have more swashbuckling finishes with 2 or 3 riders head to head on a climb or whatever (although as per Giro then everyone will moan that its too easy for Contador). However I dont see racing wheel to wheel at 70km plus as easy.

Its not as hard as climbing Mnt Ventoux at 20kph but its not easy

 

[El Pistolero]

Its obvious you dont like Cav or sprinters too much for that matter. And perhaps you are right that we should have more swashbuckling finishes with 2 or 3 riders head to head on a climb or whatever (although as per Giro then everyone will moan that its too easy for Contador). However I dont see racing wheel to wheel at 70km plus as easy.

Its not as hard as climbing Mnt Ventoux at 20kph but its not easy

It's not easy, but Cav just doesn't have competition. Than why make the rules even easier for him?

Let's add 3 time trials in the Tour than and see how you like that But Prudhomme is obviously a hypocrite and wants Cav to win green and certain person from Luxembourg yellow.

 

[Four Winds]

Its obvious you dont like Cav or sprinters too much for that matter. And perhaps you are right that we should have more swashbuckling finishes with 2 or 3 riders head to head on a climb or whatever (although as per Giro then everyone will moan that its too easy for Contador). However I dont see racing wheel to wheel at 70km plus as easy.

Its not as hard as climbing Mnt Ventoux at 20kph but its not easy

There needs to be a mix or the riders will be knackered. Hilly for the sprinters to have a relative day off D) and sprints for the GC men to have a quiet day in the peloton a la Wiggins

 

[MartinGT]

Have I missed something, has Cav won Green in previous Tours?

 

[FignonLeGrand]

A bigger advantage under the new rules. A battle between puncheurs and sprinters is more interesting to see than a battle between just sprinters. Don't you agree? If Cav wins this year than fine, it will have been interesting. But we all know how flat a Tour de France can get sometimes I just fear for a boring green jersey competition the next 5 years.

And Phil isn't going to go to the Tour next year.

Yes I would agree, but its not likely to hapepn. I tihnk a puncheur is going to have it v tough to do it day after day.

More so now that all team seem to accepts the v boring formula of letting a break go, getting 10 mins and then chasing it back in the last 30km. Very dull but little teams like it as they get exposure and air time which is more important to them.

Your line about the battle between puncheurs and sprinters made me think of the stage Cancellara flew off the front in yellow to win, that was a great stage finish!