2011 Vuelta a Espana Stage 11: Verín - Estación de Montaña Manzaneda 167,0 km (31/8)

[cineteq]

Are we forgetting the steep hill finishes in the first week where Rodriguez could catch 10/20 seconds + 20 seconds bonification on Wiggins?

No also that, Wiggins, crashing out in TdF and less than ideal preparation for La Vuelta will catch up to him this very weekend. And if he doesn't happen, then we're going to have a discussion in different forum

PS: performance from stage 9 to 10 is the hint.

 

[Griotto]

If a noted GT GC rider did what he is doing then it would be quite disappointing but it is his first time in contention like this so it less of a problem in my view. He still might attack somewhere and try and gain time.

Kessiakoff were aiming for a top 20 position before the race so as I wrote in another thread it isn´t he who should animate the race with attacks at this point. But if he feels good at Angliru I think he should try to do something.

 

[hatcher]

No also that, Wiggins, crashing out in TdF and less than ideal preparation for La Vuelta will catch up to him this very weekend. And if he doesn't happen, then we're going to have a discussion in different forum

PS: performance from stage 9 to 10 is the hint.

So you were wrong, and then wrong, and then wrong again, and the only way you can continue to be wrong is if there's something underhand going on?

That just may be the most arrogant thing I've read on these forums.

 

[Papparrazzi]

ok we got the last 6 km of farrapona and the last 6 km of angliru to make some gaps.
this might be a worse vuelta than 2009 after all.can't believe how wrong they designed it.the last six days are useless crap

These arguments have been on here before. Fact is, it's the riders that make the race, not the route.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Love the excuses for all the riders with big reputations who can't put out.

Anton & Jrod fail? Don't worry, we'll just redefine all the climbs as long hard slogs.

Wonderful logical contortions. Start from the assumption that Wiggins can't climb, and thus redefine all the climbs he does well on as something else.

Those 10% gradients you rode today...Time trial.

Yeah. The general level does seema elevated then. Because how else you explain guys like Mollema and Martin in the mountain stages and Kessiakoff coming in the favorite group every time.

The question is, has the large sub-top group of climbers gone up to the first level? The level of Menchov, Scarponi, J-Rod etc..
Or... did all top riders collectively fail in their peak or are they somehow all bad?

I'm inclined to think the first. The difference between sub-top and top are not nearly what they used to be. We saw that also in the Tour with Voeckler being able to hang on so long with the very best climbers, and Rolland winning on Alpe d'Huez + other suprises (Cunego back to his best)

 

[Gingerale]

Are we forgetting the steep hill finishes in the first week where Rodriguez could catch 10/20 seconds + 20 seconds bonification on Wiggins?

probably. i'm having a cranky day. that's my excuse.

but it is over for rodriguez. isn't it? i lost the happy tension for vuelta looking at the standings.

but andy murray is playing somdev devvarman. that's a ray of sunshine.

 

[Delicato]

Yeah. The general level does seema elevated then. Because how else you explain guys like Mollema and Martin in the mountain stages and Kessiakoff coming in the favorite group every time.

The question is, has the large sub-top group of climbers gone up to the first level? The level of Menchov, Scarponi, J-Rod etc..
Or... did all top riders collectively fail in their peak or are they somehow all bad?

I'm inclined to think the first. The difference between sub-top and top are not nearly what they used to be. We saw that also in the Tour with Voeckler being able to hang on so long with the very best climbers, and Rolland winning on Alpe d'Huez + other suprises (Cunego back to his best)

It is all purely a Clinic material. Not implying that Voeckler is on dope-on the contrary, the field is getting cleaner and cleaner.

 

[cineteq]

So you were wrong, and then wrong, and then wrong again, and the only way you can continue to be wrong is if there's something underhand going on? That just may be the most arrogant thing I've read on these forums.

Arrogant...Hmmm... I call it as I see it. I said Wigging would take about 1'15" max on Nibali's time for the ITT because of his effort on the previous day, and it happened just to be around 1 minute. How's that wrong?

PS: Am I witnessing an ego-trip fanboy in the making?

 

[theyoungest]

The wind is ruining this Vuelta. So the Angliru will probably decide everything. And Wiggins will probably emerge the victor, he's just riding everyone straight into the ground.

Surprised by Slagter in his first GT. Good stuff, explosive little climber he is. The Dutch answer to Rodriguez?

 

[ingsve]

Löfkvist has been on the front in the lower slopes both today and Covatilla (if I remember correctly), he said he feels bad some days and good other days. He probably is on water carrying duty and watching out for Wiggins. He also did a leadout for Sutton's win I think?

Löfkvist usually suffers a lot when it gets really hot so that is probably a primary reason for his up and down form. Looking at where he has finished a lot of the thougher stages it's not like he has dropped off early and finished with the gruppetto but rather finished with the other regular climbing domestiques that do the early work before they hand over to the superdomestiques.

 

[hatcher]

Arrogant...Hmmm... I call it as I see it. I said Wigging would take about 1'15" max on Nibali's time for the ITT because of his effort on the previous day, and it happened just to be around 1 minute. How's that wrong?

PS: Am I witnessing an ego-trip fanboy in the making?

So Wiggins performed worse than you expected, yet you still want to label it suspicious. Yes of course that makes sense.

 

[LaFleur]

After all the s**t that Rein Taaramäe has been through this year, he got a fever yesterday. He apparently had a 39 fever today and wanted to retire, but the team told him to last today. He got even dropped by the grupetto with 35km to go, but chased with Saramotins for 20km and got back on. Very possible that he will retire tomorrow.

 

[hrotha]

Surprised by Slagter in his first GT. Good stuff, explosive little climber he is. The Dutch answer to Rodriguez?

Technically it's his second GT. He was more explosive at the Giro, when he exploded all over an Euskaltel soigneur.

 

[theyoungest]

Technically it's his second GT. He was more explosive at the Giro, when he exploded all over an Euskaltel soigneur.

I know, but I don't consider 5 stages a proper GT.

 

[icefire]

I couldn't watch the stage but I could listen to audio. Having a look at the stage standings with 15 men coming together all I can think of is that this climb is only worthy of feauring in the first week. Or maybe Pardilla was right when he said that he felt the big boys were holding on their reins for fear of the wind and the days to come.

 

[Climbing]

Yeah. The general level does seema elevated then. Because how else you explain guys like Mollema and Martin in the mountain stages and Kessiakoff coming in the favorite group every time.

The question is, has the large sub-top group of climbers gone up to the first level? The level of Menchov, Scarponi, J-Rod etc..
Or... did all top riders collectively fail in their peak or are they somehow all bad?

I'm inclined to think the first. The difference between sub-top and top are not nearly what they used to be. We saw that also in the Tour with Voeckler being able to hang on so long with the very best climbers, and Rolland winning on Alpe d'Huez + other suprises (Cunego back to his best)

Now, I totally agree on the assumption the sport is getting cleaner and cleaner. It must be so and I want it to be so.

 

[Tank Engine]

After all the s**t that Rein Taaramäe has been through this year, he got a fever yesterday. He apparently had a 39 fever today and wanted to retire, but the team told him to last today. He got even dropped by the grupetto with 35km to go, but chased with Saramotins for 20km and got back on. Very possible that he will retire tomorrow.

More bad luck . You've got to admire his willingness to go for it when he's feeling good.

 

[meandmygitane]

Yes. Actually I expected him to do better.

2010:
8th Overall Tour of Austria
2nd Overall Brixia Tour
5th Overall Vuelta a Burgos

2011:
5th Overall Tour Méditerranéen
7th Overall Tour of Austria
6th Overall Brixia Tour

Possoni has had a few really good performances in the high mountains. Last year his end of season was:
8th overall Tour of Austria (inc 4th on the Kitzbuheler Horn stage).
2nd overall Tour of Brixia (3rd on the queen stage).
Then he did a really good climb in the Vuelta a Burgos where he was left climbing in the front group with only Anton, Samuel Sanchez, Nibali, and Mosquera. Ultimately finishing 5h overall.

He hasn't followed it up with great success this year, but still shows promise I reckon.

Thanks guys, I stand corrected. Wow, SKY seems to have a pretty deep team in this tour, the deepest? But I can't recall seeing Possoni doing any work in a grand tour as a domestique? Maybe I am forgetful.

 

[RedheadDane]

Technically it's his second GT. He was more explosive at the Giro, when he exploded all over an Euskaltel soigneur.

Yeah... I'm afraid it'll be a while before I stop thinking of Slagter as other than the guy who scared the cycling-world out of its wits! I still remember the commentating on a video I found: "Oh no! Not again!"

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Thanks guys, I stand corrected. Wow, SKY seems to have a pretty deep team in this tour, the deepest? But I can't recall seeing Possoni doing any work in a grand tour as a domestique? Maybe I am forgetful.

Going to be much deeper next year - really excited about their squad for next year, seems to be mostly deadwood leaving and quality riders coming in.

 

[uphillstruggle]

The wind is ruining this Vuelta. So the Angliru will probably decide everything. And Wiggins will probably emerge the victor, he's just riding everyone straight into the ground.

)

I just don't see Nibbles not taking 11 seconds out of Wiggins on the Angrilu. Nibali is pretty dam good on steep stuff - not exiting, but pretty effective. He was only behind Mosqeura on Bola del Mundo last year. Wiggins suffers when its steep.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Love the excuses for all the riders with big reputations who can't put out.

Anton & Jrod fail? Don't worry, we'll just redefine all the climbs as long hard slogs.

Wonderful logical contortions. Start from the assumption that Wiggins can't climb, and thus redefine all the climbs he does well on as something else.

Those 10% gradients you rode today...Time trial.

The climbs they've done so far are proper climbs, but they're climbs suited to the type of climber that Wiggins is. They're not the type of climbs that Antón or Rodríguez prefer, but those guys are natural climbers so regardless of whether the climbs have suited them or not they've been hugely disappointing. Wiggins is still untested in peak form on the really steep stuff, but that doesn't mean he hasn't been one of the best in the race, if not the absolute best, on the long grinding climbs we've had so far (as obviously the only ones we've had have been short steep Classics-type finishes which obviously don't suit him, and then a couple that are averaging 6% or so with some ramps. We know that Wiggins can handle those climbs. I expected him to be well in contention until next weekend - but I didn't expect him to be as good as he has been, hence where I thought he would fall away in stages 14-15 before, I no longer feel confident in predicting his falling away from podium contention there, because I thought he'd come in with the main contenders on 9 and 11, not leading them home and shelling those self-same climbers I expected to be putting him into difficulty.

Anyway, away from all the arguing about who rates, who underrates, and who overrates Wiggins, it was a great day, because Beñat Intxausti refound his mojo, David Moncoutié won, and Amets Txurruka attacked.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I just don't see Nibbles not taking 11 seconds out of Wiggins on the Angrilu. Nibali is pretty dam good on steep stuff - not exiting, but pretty effective. He was only behind Mosqeura on Bola del Mundo last year. Wiggins suffers when its steep.

When have we really seen Wiggins when it's steep? Taking only races after his 2009 Tour breakthrough showing (where the steepest climb was Ventoux, which is a totally different type of climb to what we're talking about next weekend), we have:

11th (in the group at 2'25") Giro 2010 stage 14 (Grappa)
104th (at 25'32") Giro 2010 stage 15 (Zoncolán)
67th (at 4'51") Giro 2010 stage 16 (Kronplatz)
131st (in the autobus at 35'17") Giro 2010 stage 19 (Mortirolo-Aprica)
14th (at 31") Tour 2010 stage 12 (Mende)
6th (at 54") Dauphiné 2011 stage 6 (Le Collet d'Allevard)

How many of those do you think he was on form for? We know he didn't approach the Giro 2010 in form. Le Collet d'Allevard is quite steep (ave. 8,4%) but it's not crazy hard like Anglirú. Mende is the right kind of steepness, but is far shorter. And in reality, he acquitted himself fairly well on those latter two, but unlike the Giro climbs they aren't really representative of the length and extreme difficulty of the Asturian behemoth.

So while I feel that he will struggle, it's not really a certainty because we've never really seen him performing at peak form on climbs like this, and remember that last time out Levi Leipheimer was 4th on Angliru, only a minute down, while back in 2000 Jan Hruska somehow managed to come 2nd.

 

[cineteq]

So Wiggins performed worse than you expected, yet you still want to label it suspicious. Yes of course that makes sense.

No, I have not labeled him as *suspicious* or anything similar. Now if on Sunday night he's still leading the GC, then I'd have to find a different word to describe his performance.

 

[spanky wanderlust]

No also that, Wiggins, crashing out in TdF and less than ideal preparation for La Vuelta will catch up to him this very weekend. And if he doesn't happen, then we're going to have a discussion in different forum

PS: performance from stage 9 to 10 is the hint.

bs.

i haven't been to the clinic, but i'm sure it's already being discussed. go over there if you want to post crap like this.

it's perfectly reasonable to think that a guy that got a top 5 in the tour could podium or win the vuelta.