2012 Giro d'Italia; Stage 15: Busto Arsizio - Lecco/Pian dei Resinelli (169km)

[gilbertador]

You would think this stage would be perfect but after yesterday i dont know, with so many climbs I dont see why the likes of Nieve, Cunego, Rujano and Pozzovivo should wait, the Valcava is perfect to go on, I really think the weather plays a big part, riders are seriously put off by the rain i think

 

[hrotha]

Yesterday's stage was certainly not like a traditional parade on Champs. We still had some attacks, at least from Hesjedal and Rodriguez

So you think that any of top-10 guys could go on attack on Joux? How could they stay on descent, especially against Liquigas? If you imply that some second-tier GCers and mountain men could be more active on Joux I agree with you.

Yes, it is easier to get away on a 10 % slope, than 6%, if you are a marked rider but very strong. Also they just fear to attack, and some of them like Basso or Scarponi can't on such a non-steep climb.

Attacks with 3 km to go. Epic.

Yes, I think any GC contender could have gone on the Joux. When the leaders go, the domestiques can't keep up. Anyway, they could have used the first 15 km of Joux to soften up the bunch and isolate Basso, for starters, but no one really upped the pace until Szmyd did with 6 km to go. The thing is, the pace wasn't fast. This should be self-evident, what with having like 20 guys in the bunch with 6 km to go, but apparently it needs to be said. Liquigas hasn't proved to be particularly strong. They just ride in the front and everybody assumes they have everything under control.

"Also they just fear to attack" - that's the general thrust of my posts, yes.

 

[Delicato]

Attacks with 3 km to go. Epic.

Yes, I think any GC contender could have gone on the Joux. When the leaders go, the domestiques can't keep up. Anyway, they could have used the first 15 km of Joux to soften up the bunch and isolate Basso, for starters, but no one really upped the pace until Szmyd did with 6 km to go. The thing is, the pace wasn't fast. This should be self-evident, what with having like 20 guys in the bunch with 6 km to go, but apparently it needs to be said. Liquigas hasn't proved to be particularly strong. They just ride in the front and everybody assumes they have everything under control.

"Also they just fear to attack" - that's the general thrust of my posts, yes.

Even Contador don't attack on penultimate mountain

Well,you can think what you want but to soften up bunch and isolate Basso, you need to have some very good domestiques (I guess we agree one can't do than on his own?) Who can do that except Szmyd? I think you are living in a world of fantasy cycling. It is just impossible to do that on a PENULTIMATE climb, shake Basso and co on Joux and then keep the gap on descent to get to Cervinia ahead of all the other contenders.They are not RoboBasso from 2006.

Also i find it quite irrational and even ridiculous to whine about such a stalemate on Cervinia considering that we have Pampeago and Mortirolo and Stelvio next week.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Schleck FTW, i really hope so

Lol, nice....

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

today i want to see Basso really going for it, just so we can see if he have the legs to shred the peloton to pieces or not

 

[Mellow Velo]

Just a reminder. This is what we had on the same Sunday, last year:

 

[hrotha]

Even Contador don't attack on penultimate mountain

Well,you can think what you want but to soften up bunch and isolate Basso, you need to have some very good domestiques (I guess we agree one can't do than on his own?) Who can do that except Szmyd? I think you are living in a world of fantasy cycling. It is just impossible to do that on a PENULTIMATE climb, shake Basso and co on Joux and then keep the gap on descent to get to Cervinia ahead of all the other contenders.They are not RoboBasso from 2006.

Also i find it quite irrational and even ridiculous to whine about such a stalemate on Cervinia considering that we have Pampeago and Mortirolo and Stelvio next week.

It's a three-week race. I don't see what's ridiculous about wanting action in more than two or three stages. I truly think the long-term sustainability of the sport is at stake here, at least in the traditional European core countries.

You don't need very good domestiques. You need decent ones, of the kind every contender has. Szmyd is not some kind of superman, and awesome as he is, he can't control the race by himself. Yesterday he didn't do all that much. I don't think Liquigas is particularly strong, either. Again, if the actual contenders go, the contenders have to respond. The domestiques can't do it. Remember Andy vs Evans last year? All of BMC was barely enough to prevent Andy from not winning the Tour before the last climb started, and in the end it was up to Evans to counter himself. That's what happens every time an actual contender tries.

Basso is a terrible descender. I fail to see why people wouldn't be able to keep the gap if they had managed to drop him in the climb.

It's not impossible to race in the penultimate climb. That notion is preposterous.

 

[Leonardus]

Just a reminder. This is what we had on the same Sunday, last year:

That was magnificent stage, just epic.

After yesterday I wouldn't be surprised if a large breakaway group stays clear, with the gc men just waiting on the final climb for the others to do something so they won't lose time.

 

[Froome19]

Just a reminder. This is what we had on the same Sunday, last year:

You cant have the best of both worlds.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Even Contador don't attack on penultimate mountain

Contador - stage 19, Tour 2011
Andy Schleck - stage 18, Tour 2011
Fränk Schleck - stage 16, Vuelta 2010
Scarponi, Basso, Nibali - stage 19, Giro 2010
Rodríguez, Arroyo - stage 15, Giro 2011 (that was the THIRD mountain from home)
Vinokourov, Sastre - stage 20, Giro 2010

That's just in GTs in the last two years, and not counting peripheral contenders like Sella, Garzelli and Nieve.

Also i find it quite irrational and even ridiculous to whine about such a stalemate on Cervinia considering that we have Pampeago and Mortirolo and Stelvio next week.

So we have some good stages on stages 17, 19 and 20, so therefore it's OK to ride formation for two and a half weeks first? This is my problem with the Tour last year too - NOTHING HAPPENED except crashes until week 3. In that case, why not have a one week race and save us all the hassle?

It's called a Grand Tour because it is supposed to be Grand. It lasts three weeks because they're supposed to race for three weeks. Not parade for 2 and race for 1.

Yet everybody's content to say the Vuelta was terrible because the first two weeks were pretty decent and the last week wasn't, but the Tour was great because the last four days were great even if the first two weeks were miserable.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Bring back Angelo.

 

[Delicato]

Contador - stage 19, Tour 2011
Andy Schleck - stage 18, Tour 2011
Fränk Schleck - stage 16, Vuelta 2010
Scarponi, Basso, Nibali - stage 19, Giro 2010
Rodríguez, Arroyo - stage 15, Giro 2011 (that was the THIRD mountain from home)
Vinokourov, Sastre - stage 20, Giro 2010

Has any of them except Basso win these GT's? I know all these results, no need to post them, it still confirms that in order to win the race, you don't make suicidal attacks.

Don't know about "everybody" you are talking about. I liked Vuelta and didn't like the Tour. Also I read these forums for three years now and know about your opinion and hatred towards "tactical" mountain stages.

 

[icefire]

One Giro climb followed by three Vuelta climbs. Not bad after the Tour climbs of yesterday.

I've watched the climbs on Google Street View and I fear that only the physical impossibility of riding in a group on such narrow roads can create gaps today. Motocameras may have a difficult day to do their job. And most road sections in the climbs are covered by trees, so the helicopter camera will not help that much.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I still think they should have done Tze Core instead of Joux. Much better climb. As I said yesterday, personally I'd then have climbed Saint Pantaleon and finished with a descent into Châtillon.

Has any of them except Basso win these GT's? I know all these results, no need to post them, it still confirms that in order to win the race, you don't make suicidal attacks.

Don't know about "everybody" you are talking about. I liked Vuelta and didn't like the Tour. Also I read these forums for three years now and know about your opinion and hatred towards "tactical" mountain stages.

This is the Giro! There are guys like Pozzovivo and Rujano there who NEED to attack because they won't get the time anywhere else. But even they are deciding to leave it to the last 5km. I yearn for the days when an attack at 10km to go wasn't considered "going from afar".

If I wanted to watch a group ride and pretend it was entertainment I'd watch the Tour of California.

 

[vcampbell]

Contador.

We can also add last years Val di Fassa stage. Ok, it was actually more a following attack, then a real attack, but that time he still has got 2 teammates, so for me that was an attack too.

Just a reminder. This is what we had on the same Sunday, last year:

Val di Fassa

I already know what will I see tomorrow on the rest day

 

[Delicato]

This is the Giro! There are guys like Pozzovivo and Rujano there who NEED to attack because they won't get the time anywhere else. But even they are deciding to leave it to the last 5km. I yearn for the days when an attack at 10km to go wasn't considered "going from afar".

If I wanted to watch a group ride and pretend it was entertainment I'd watch the Tour of California.

I wrote that I agree that second-tier GCers should be more active. Still, Pozzovivo has already won a stage and was active and Rujano maybe just don't have it despite all the Ryo hype.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

At least it looks like being as wet as Val di Fassa

Will Sky try to hold it all together till the sprint ? Or even (gasp) Cavendish go in the break ?

 

[Duartista]

I still think they should have done Tze Core instead of Joux. Much better climb. As I said yesterday, personally I'd then have climbed Saint Pantaleon and finished with a descent into Châtillon.



This is the Giro! There are guys like Pozzovivo and Rujano there who NEED to attack because they won't get the time anywhere else. But even they are deciding to leave it to the last 5km. I yearn for the days when an attack at 10km to go wasn't considered "going from afar".

If I wanted to watch a group ride and pretend it was entertainment I'd watch the Tour of California.

Rujano attacked on the penultimate climb, and ended up losing time. He's the one guy you can't accuse of leaving to the last 5km!

 

[Eshnar]

Just a reminder. This is what we had on the same Sunday, last year:

That's a bit silly.
Next Friday I'll write:
Just a reminder. This is what we had on the same Friday, last year:

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I wrote that I agree that second-tier GCers should be more active. Still, Pozzovivo has already won a stage and was active and Rujano maybe just don't have it despite all the Ryo hype.

Even if we accept the "stalemate on the first mountain stage" idea, why on earth is stage 14 the first mountain stage (and why aren't we counting stages 7 & 8?)? The last time stage 14 was the first high mountain stage was Pampeago in 2008. They sure weren't waiting around like idiots that day.

This is the Giro, not the Tour, so gutless, insipid riding should be the exception, not the norm. Ironically Hesjedal was one of the guys expected to play the "hold on in the high mountains" card, but he was the one that decided to go for it.

 

[Eshnar]

The last time stage 14 was the first high mountain stage was Pampeago in 2008. They sure weren't waiting around like idiots that day.

well the heads of state were, actually.

 

[vcampbell]

That's a bit silly.
Next Friday I'll write:
Just a reminder. This is what we had on the same Friday, last year:

That's a bit silly.
Every time I could write:
Just a reminder. This is what we had last year:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/giro-ditalia-2011/stages

 

[Hugo Koblet]

That was magnificent stage, just epic.

After yesterday I wouldn't be surprised if a large breakaway group stays clear, with the gc men just waiting on the final climb for the others to do something so they won't lose time.

Completely agree. Fedaia is amazing.

 

[Delicato]

Even if we accept the "stalemate on the first mountain stage" idea, why on earth is stage 14 the first mountain stage (and why aren't we counting stages 7 & 8?)? The last time stage 14 was the first high mountain stage was Pampeago in 2008. They sure weren't waiting around like idiots that day.

This is the Giro, not the Tour, so gutless, insipid riding should be the exception, not the norm. Ironically Hesjedal was one of the guys expected to play the "hold on in the high mountains" card, but he was the one that decided to go for it.

Because these were not the proper high mountain stages.

Do you remember 2008?That year we had "oh so clean" Sella and Ricco. The only rider who put the hammer down that day was Menchov who really wasn't aiming for the GC win. Other guys weren't that strong and we didn't see the attacks long way before the finish and the weren't that many gaps between the favourites. Also Pampeago is much tougher than Cervinia and didn't have false flat before the finish.

I like cycling in all its forms and genres. Even the stalemate.

 

[Eshnar]

That's a bit silly.
Every time I could write:
Just a reminder. This is what we had last year:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/giro-ditalia-2011/stages

Well that's what you have when people complain about the GC being closed after just a week.
Anyway last year's route had its flaws too.