2012 Tirreno -Adriatico, Stage 4:Amelia - Chieti: 252km

[Froome19]

We'll talk about that after tomorrow, when there is actual climbing.

So you're saying that there was no climbing invloved today? maybe there wasnt much climbing but Sagan certainly demonstrated he can climb and thats all we need to know he's only 22 (or around that) hes bound to improve (even if his closer to his peak than other riders of the same age) there is no doubt whatsoever that he will become an adept climber and thats the end to the matter, whether he can win a GT is about to debate, yet he has clearly demonstrated from this win, that he will win races like Tirreno overall in the future. How you can argue that is...

 

[roundabout]

That would depend on the course.

 

[Netserk]

So you're saying that there was no climbing invloved today? maybe there wasnt much climbing but Sagan certainly demonstrated he can climb and thats all we need to know he's only 22 (or around that) hes bound to improve (even if his closer to his peak than other riders of the same age) there is no doubt whatsoever that he will become an adept climber and thats the end to the matter, whether he can win a GT is about to debate, yet he has clearly demonstrated from this win, that he will win races like Tirreno overall in the future. How you can argue that is...

and Freire and Petacchi have been 1st and 2nd

 

[jens_attacks]

http://video.gazzetta.it/parole-siciliano-vittoria-sagan/4908bafc-6ad1-11e1-9525-73962b4a9874

quite obviously Nibali is ****ed at Sagan's move...

"I was stunned (when I saw him pass me)...I looked at who was behind him, and then I tried to get to the finish line...there was nothing left to do...unfortunately Peter is like this, instinctive"

lol go sagan!

 

[taiwan]

We'll talk about that after tomorrow, when there is actual climbing.

NOPE... If he is anywhere near the front at the end of tomorrow's stage, then we can talk

Can I just present the top 20 of today's stage. Not conclusive, but it seems that was a climber's finish. Scarponi won it the last 2 years, what do you want? Noone's claiming he's a pure climber, but he > a Rojas-type climbing sprinter.

SAGAN Peter
KREUZIGER Roman
NIBALI Vincenzo
DI LUCA Danilo
HORNER Chris
HOOGERLAND Johnny
NOCENTINI Rinaldo
EVANS Cadel
SCARPONI Michele
RODRIGUEZ OLIVER Joaquin
POELS Wout
TIRALONGO Paolo
MORENO FERNANDEZ Daniel
POZZOVIVO Domenico
GARZELLI Stefano
IZAGIRRE INSAUSTI Ion
CARRARA Matteo
RIBLON Christophe
COSTA Rui Alberto Faria
BRAMBILLA Gianluca

The boy is exceptional. That is all.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Yes, but there is a difference between PUNCH kwalities and CLIMBING qualities

Like there is a difference between a 2km HILL (today) and a 10km+ MOUNTAIN.

Some people fail to grasp that concept. Sagan is more like Gilbert then Valverde, if you understand that concept. If not. I give up. People here are thinking waaaay to black/white. Uphill = climbing capabilties, no matter if it's 2km or 10km... yeah right :roll:

 

[Mellow Velo]

Just watched the "highlights".
Grampa Horner is the new Leipheimer.
If it wasn't for the wearing down effect,
I'd say that stage was 250kms too long.
Cam Meyer still there? ha-ha.

 

[BillytheKid]

Had to leave to work with 5k to go. I called Horner for the GC, but not the stage. The the steep final climb suited Horner, but not the flater last K or so. If would have suited him better if it ended on the incline. I had doubts about his form, but after I saw him on the preceding climbs in the front group looking easy I figured he had a good chance. Good job Chris.

Holding on to that jersey's gonna be tough, but first race after that horrible crash 8 months ago is victory enough.

 

[Froome19]

"but horner can win classics" - no, he can't.
"big stage races" - no, he can't (and don't bring up Califonia here. No one gave a crap about that silly race).

If by big stage races you mean any race asides from a GT then I dont understand...

Lol Kruijswijk outclimbed by Cam. ...be Greenedge's stage racing hope this season.

 

[taiwan]

Yes, but there is a difference between PUNCH kwalities and CLIMBING qualities

Like there is a difference between a 2km HILL (today) and a 10km+ MOUNTAIN.

Some people fail to grasp that concept. Sagan is more like Gilbert then Valverde, if you understand that concept. If not. I give up. People here are thinking waaaay to black/white. Uphill = climbing capabilties, no matter if it's 2km or 10km... yeah right :roll:

TBH I don't think you can say his win counts for nothing in terms of climbing abilities.

There's an overlap between good climbers and good puncheurs. I don't see a lot of hills only types in that top 20, but there are a number of GT winners and good mountain domestiques. You would think that finish suited those types particularly.

As far as tomorrow goes, I'm starting to think Sagan won't lose a lot of time. The pace won't go up until the final climb, and he's clearly in some very nice form.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I know Cameron Meyer and I know he isn't a climber and that is well proven today (finishing pretty far) and will be even more evident tomorrow.
Takes nothing away from his evident time trial talent.

 

[Kwibus]

lol. we've got ourselves a serious horner hater

Not everyone hates riders like you.

All your arguments toward Horner were false so he is right.

It doesn't matter though. Horner will own tomorrow and win the T-A.

 

[Panda Claws]

I wonder now is there any people out there now who think i am deluded when i started a thread a couple of months ago saying Sagan has the potential to be better then Gilbert. That finish today Gilbert would of had it for breakfast a year ago and Sagan is already capable of winning on various stage profiles and he is only 22. The guy is top drawer.

Isn't this the same finish as last year? If so, Gilbert still lost 20 seconds here in 2011.

 

[theyoungest]

Lol, Lars Boom outclimbed Fabio Duarte today. The Colombians are not quite bringing it in this race.

And props to Cam Meyer, 30th or so today is far better than I expected. Still, tomorrow will probably prove his undoing.

 

[Froome19]

I know Cameron Meyer and I know he isn't a climber and that is well proven today (finishing pretty far) and will be even more evident tomorrow.
Takes nothing away from his evident time trial talent.

Liewe Westra wasnt a climber either until his win on the mendee, who would have thought 10 years ago Wiggins would have been a climber?
These strong Time trialists seem to be very talented, especially Meyer who quoting (on the lines) chris Boardman has amazing potential its scary. If he decides to pursue climbing (very possible considering Greenedge's lack of eminent climbing talent) then he will become a very talented climber.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Liewe Westra wasnt a climber either until his win on the mendee, who would have thought 10 years ago Wiggins would have been a climber?
These strong Time trialists seem to be very talented, especially Meyer who quoting (on the lines) chris Boardman has amazing potential its scary. If he decides to pursue climbing (very possible considering Greenedge's lack of eminent climbing talent) then he will become a very talented climber.

Yeah I know everything is a possibility. But he won't turn into a climber overnight. That's my point. It's not as if he's going to destroy worlds tomorrow and win the Tirreno.

 

[greenedge]

Evans evidently does not have great form which is a pity as his team worked for him very well- but they attacked just as he finished his pull. I feel sorry for Scarponi and his hand but he probably would not have been able to win if he is not peaking for the Giro anyways.
I hope EBH is ok as well.

A really exciting stage. Di Luca and Nibalis' attacks were good. I am happy that Kreuziger still had enough firepower to sprint and attack- he is looking good!!! Horner did well to take the race lead in his first real race back from the TDF.

Saagan was of course phenomenal- this proves that he can target races like the Ardennes this year. It also shows he can go with the favourites on the Poggio or just sprint at the end.

 

[Froome19]

Saagan was of course phenomenal- this proves that he can target races like the Ardennes this year. It also shows he can go with the favourites on the Poggio or just sprint at the end.

Or do both

 

[Ferminal]

Yes, but there is a difference between PUNCH kwalities and CLIMBING qualities

Like there is a difference between a 2km HILL (today) and a 10km+ MOUNTAIN.

Some people fail to grasp that concept. Sagan is more like Gilbert then Valverde, if you understand that concept. If not. I give up. People here are thinking waaaay to black/white. Uphill = climbing capabilties, no matter if it's 2km or 10km... yeah right :roll:

Indeed, nothing Sagan did today really showed his "climbing" potential. Just because Gilbert can smash Mur de Huy doesn't make him a climber. Today was pure explosiveness, and Sagan showed that his explosiveness could translate uphill too, even on the steepest of gradients.

When it comes to proper climbing over 15km, his benchmark is still the Grindewald win. Hopefully tomorrow gives us more information.

 

[krismtb]

Once again, Horner riding for the GC and not the stage. Well done. And notice he did pull a couple times, catching Kruz. Not sure what the veiled Leipheimer suggestions are here but you can shove it up your ___.

As for Sagan, did you see him afterwards? His effort was pure ego, laying on the ground like a newb after that climb. He'll be toast tomorrow. He obviously has no plans for GC. But whatever, give the kid his day.

 

[Ferminal]

But when you say Gilbert smashed Mur de Huy he did that at 28. What Sagan did today he did when he was 22. There is a lot more room and time for him to develop over the years to see he can develop on and evolve in this area.

You can only judge based on what he has achieved and where. He was only 20 two years ago in P-N and since then he's practically ticked every box and risen to every challenge. But rate his climbing potential based on how he goes on Prati di Tivo, not a 4 minute effort. I'm one of the people who thinks he has quite a lot of climbing potential, but a finish in Chieti simply isn't relevant to that argument.

 

[movingtarget]

Once again, Horner riding for the GC and not the stage. Well done. And notice he did pull a couple times, catching Kruz. Not sure what the veiled Leipheimer suggestions are here but you can shove it up your ___.

As for Sagan, did you see him afterwards? His effort was pure ego, laying on the ground like a newb after that climb. He'll be toast tomorrow. He obviously has no plans for GC. But whatever, give the kid his day.

After the TTT Horner was well positioned. No surprise here. Just a matter of whether he can hold it together in the TT. Evans and Scarponi are not in the same form as last year.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Evans was very open about his form on his website

I don't have the legs to finish off their great work, not yet anyway....For me, I was ok but not at a level to be competitive with the best guys today. No stress, plenty more racing (and work) to come yet. Now, hopefully we'll be able more hours sleep tonight than we had hours on the bike today...


and the BMC website

"I rode the race I did and whether I got the best result out of myself as possible, today I can't say," Evans said. "But on two levels I have an idea where I am – not where I was last year – but in terms of the end results going toward the other races in the year, it's a really good indicator, particularly from the work of the team."

Not having decent form now is not such a bad thing imo.

 

[Parrulo]

Evans was very open about his form on his website

I don't have the legs to finish off their great work, not yet anyway....For me, I was ok but not at a level to be competitive with the best guys today. No stress, plenty more racing (and work) to come yet. Now, hopefully we'll be able more hours sleep tonight than we had hours on the bike today...


and the BMC website

"I rode the race I did and whether I got the best result out of myself as possible, today I can't say," Evans said. "But on two levels I have an idea where I am – not where I was last year – but in terms of the end results going toward the other races in the year, it's a really good indicator, particularly from the work of the team."

Not having decent form now is not such a bad thing imo.

ya pretty honest and straight forward, i like it. i would like to see evans on form so he could put up some fight defending his win from last year but it's not the end of the world. could he be aiming at pais vasco for himself and then riding the ardennes for phill? pais vasco would a great addiction to his palmares imo.

 

[Ferminal]

Not having decent form now is not such a bad thing imo.

Correct.

After being on the front Evans seemed to drop fairly heavily, but he fought back and managed top10. He should still grind his way to a top10, which is ok as top3 would have required a super effort anyway, after their horrible TTT.

He should go close to winning Crit International, and peak for the Ardennes.