2012 Tour de France; Stage 1: Liège → Seraing (198km)

[Oldman]

Congrats to Sagan. Yes he did sit on Cancellara but even to follow him was good. A small pull would have helped though- but he still won in his first TDF- from now on he can go back to pulling.

Cancellara was super strong and EBH did well to close the gap.

Teams like BMC, Sky, Lotto, OGE and even Euskatel and Europcar were all present at the front which was good.

Sagan rode an excellent finish and there was no reason to move on Cancellara until he finally did. They were primarily going up hill and giving a strong rider your behind to look at means you're going for GC or you don't plan to win.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

sagan looked more like a chiken then flexing his guns.

Seriously?!
Come on he brings character to the sport
He wins with very raw talent at the moment
His riding style is hardly boring.
Winning so much...this is sport! Generally sprinters don't race for second but for stages.

if sagan was in a bmc shirt dlwssonic would be going crazy.

I'm not insulting him. I'm saying that he rarely does things all by him self. He almost always relies on his or someone else's team. Just look at California, Suisse, Oman, etc. He regularly benefits from the work of other teams.

so... basically sagan is a cyclist whom utilizes a team. No F**king way!

no cyclist does it alone. Gadret maybe

For a young guy, Sagan has done some impressive rides.. His PN wins were great, his efforts at his first TDU even. In the classics this year, T-A this year. Even at suisse last year. The guy is entertaining, and I'm all for a bit of character.

 

[karlboss]

Hate to buck the trend, but it wasn't Sagan's actions which lost respect for me today, it was Cancellara's. In my mind looking over his shoulder and not pedalling should have been the only way he asked Sagan to come through. Using his arm annoyed me. It was always all about the win, all 3 should ahve been doing what was best for them for the win, expecting Sagan to come through was just dumb, and Cancellara comes off as a sook for me. It was not like it is a 20km breakaway and one guy is hanging on only to sprint over the top at the end. This was an attack to win the race, that someone matched, you don't have the right to say "you lead it out", or "please get in front of me so I can attack you again". Both riders are faced with the same choices, help and maybe lose the sprint, don't help and maybe get caught.

I would have loved to see Cancellara's attack work, but when it didn't, asking/telling the other guy what to do lost a little respect in my eyes.

 

[Caruut]

Hate to buck the trend, but it wasn't Sagan's actions which lost respect for me today, it was Cancellara's. In my mind looking over his shoulder and not pedalling should have been the only way he asked Sagan to come through. Using his arm annoyed me. It was always all about the win, all 3 should ahve been doing what was best for them for the win

Like trying to force the best sprinter to take a pull, and tire him out, or get to the front so you can try and use him as a leadout? Trying to get Sagan to come through there was just Canc trying his best to win the stage.

expecting Sagan to come through was just dumb

How do you know he expected him to? He tried to get him to, and if he had done, it would have been good for Canc.

and Cancellara comes off as a sook for me.

Wow, how pathetic. Driving 2 other riders to the line, knowing there's a good chance it's not going to work, but pushing through the pain barrier anyway makes you soft now does it? If you call Cancellara a sook, I'd hate to see which words you have reserved for the rest of us.

It was not like it is a 20km breakaway and one guy is hanging on only to sprint over the top at the end. This was an attack to win the race, that someone matched, you don't have the right to say "you lead it out", or "please get in front of me so I can attack you again".

It's a bit like that. You have the right to say those things, and the other rider has the right to say no.

Both riders are faced with the same choices, help and maybe lose the sprint, don't help and maybe get caught.

And both riders chose the same option - do what you can to make the other guy work.

I would have loved to see Cancellara's attack work, but when it didn't, asking/telling the other guy what to do lost a little respect in my eyes.

Still laughable, unless you were joking, in which case I'm the fool.

 

[wirral]

I just read that Jerome Pineau was hit by a spectator and had to go to hospital. That is "was hit by a spectator" not 'collided with a spectator. I hope they get some footage and can arrest the idiot.

Road cyclists put up with enough danger without this kind of disgraceful crap.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I'm very disappointed with Gilbert: what a horrible tactic as it seemed he never placed himself in a position to contend for the victory. Compared to last year he truly has nothing. Where was the help from BMC? The BMC team are still riding like idiots. He should have stayed with Lotto.

Truly disheartened,

Andre

BMC are working for Evans, not Gilbert. Phil should have been better positioned going into the final climb but BMC were all together for the leadup to the final climb and Phil was further back. Maybe Phil needed to take some responsibility on how he was positioned? From reports Phil was hit by someone elses wheel so lost a lot of positions and BMC were not going to waste their resources chasing back for him.

 

[karlboss]

Like trying to force the best sprinter to take a pull, and tire him out, or get to the front so you can try and use him as a leadout? Trying to get Sagan to come through there was just Canc trying his best to win the stage.



How do you know he expected him to? He tried to get him to, and if he had done, it would have been good for Canc.



Wow, how pathetic. Driving 2 other riders to the line, knowing there's a good chance it's not going to work, but pushing through the pain barrier anyway makes you soft now does it? If you call Cancellara a sook, I'd hate to see which words you have reserved for the rest of us.



It's a bit like that. You have the right to say those things, and the other rider has the right to say no.



And both riders chose the same option - do what you can to make the other guy work.



Still laughable, unless you were joking, in which case I'm the fool.

Trying to get Sagan to take a turn was fine, after geetting the answer to keep asking is stupid.

Where did I call Cancellara soft?

I said he comes off as a sook, for repeatedly asking someone to do something despite having the answer.

i say he expected Sagan to come through as if he didn't expect that he would, why would he keep asking after being told no?

I don't recall Pozzato or Ballan once asking Boonen to come through for a pull at la Ronde. In these situations you ask once, you get your answer and you deal with it. You certainly wouldn't see Ballan sit up talk and wave arms at him. Ballan knew his position and he dealt with it.

 

[Caruut]

Trying to get Sagan to take a turn was fine, after geetting the answer to keep asking is stupid.

How do you tell the difference between "no" and "not now"? I think for as long as Sagan keeps implicitly asking Canc to lead, Canc can keep explicitly asking Sagan to.

Where did I call Cancellara soft?

I said he comes off as a sook, for repeatedly asking someone to do something despite having the answer.

Thought that was what a sook meant.

i say he expected Sagan to come through as if he didn't expect that he would, why would he keep asking after being told no?

There's a difference between expecting something and thinking it's possible. For Canc, it was clearly worth a shot, since had he just stayed at the front without complaining we know he would have lost. Personally, I think he should have just stopped pedalling. In MSR, he made the right call; I think 2nd in a classic is (compared to respective 1st places) better than 2nd in a stage, plus Canc gambling on winning a sprint vs 2 others from the front is quite reasonable after a hugely tough race.[/QUOTE]

I don't recall Pozzato or Ballan once asking Boonen to come through for a pull at la Ronde. In these situations you ask once, you get your answer and you deal with it. You certainly wouldn't see Ballan sit up talk and wave arms at him. Ballan knew his position and he dealt with it.

Don't think they did, no. 7 days later, Ballan did just that to Pozzato when Boonen and Terpstra broke away.

 

[movingtarget]

BMC are working for Evans, not Gilbert. Phil should have been better positioned going into the final climb but BMC were all together for the leadup to the final climb and Phil was further back. Maybe Phil needed to take some responsibility on how he was positioned? From reports Phil was hit by someone elses wheel so lost a lot of positions and BMC were not going to waste their resources chasing back for him.

I think Evans was looking for Gilbert but then made his own race. Sagan jumped on Evan's wheel and was in a great position when Cancellara reacted. Plus there was a headwind and Evans decided not to waste any further energy when the chance of the win was gone. Gilbert would not beat Sagan at the moment, head to head anyway, even though he did well to grab fourth place. Sagan made it look easy.

 

[karlboss]

How do you tell the difference between "no" and "not now"? I think for as long as Sagan keeps implicitly asking Canc to lead, Canc can keep explicitly asking Sagan to.



Thought that was what a sook meant.



There's a difference between expecting something and thinking it's possible. For Canc, it was clearly worth a shot, since had he just stayed at the front without complaining we know he would have lost. Personally, I think he should have just stopped pedalling. In MSR, he made the right call; I think 2nd in a classic is (compared to respective 1st places) better than 2nd in a stage, plus Canc gambling on winning a sprint vs 2 others from the front is quite reasonable after a hugely tough race.

Don't think they did, no. 7 days later, Ballan did just that to Pozzato when Boonen and Terpstra broke away.[/QUOTE]

This.

When chasing a break including the race favourite is a little different to once you are inside the final kilometre with the peloton bearing down on you, or having made the winning break with 2 other guys don't you think?

 

[greenedge]

Hate to buck the trend, but it wasn't Sagan's actions which lost respect for me today, it was Cancellara's. In my mind looking over his shoulder and not pedalling should have been the only way he asked Sagan to come through. Using his arm annoyed me. It was always all about the win, all 3 should ahve been doing what was best for them for the win, expecting Sagan to come through was just dumb, and Cancellara comes off as a sook for me.
I would have loved to see Cancellara's attack work, but when it didn't, asking/telling the other guy what to do lost a little respect in my eyes.

He was gracious enough in the post race interviews. He is the yellow jersey/ one of the best riders in the peleton ( even more so after today ) and he does deserve more than everyone else sitting on him all the time ( so i can see why he gets frustrated ).
The sook part is odd as he was by far the strongest and did not as i stated earlier complain about Sagan afterwards.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I think Evans was looking for Gilbert but then made his own race. Sagan jumped on Evan's wheel and was in a great position when Cancellara reacted. Plus there was a headwind and Evans decided not to waste any further energy when the chance of the win was gone. Gilbert would not beat Sagan at the moment, head to head anyway, even though he did well to grab fourth place. Sagan made it look easy.

Yeah, once Cancellara and Sagan went, yo could tell Evans was not really putting in 100% in chasing although I think it would be wise if BMC use Gilbert to attack early on the final climb of st3 which will really hurth the other favourites and then Evans can win by kicking over the top!

 

[greenedge]

I'm very disappointed with Gilbert: what a horrible tactic as it seemed he never placed himself in a position to contend for the victory. Compared to last year he truly has nothing. Where was the help from BMC? The BMC team are still riding like idiots. He should have stayed with Lotto.

Riding like idiots protecting the defending TDF champion?

Its' not their fault Gilbert was ill placed leading into the climb- he received a bump and lost position and BMC had no other men who could help- Hincapie had to pull Evans up and Evans was certainly not going to drop back to find him.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Riding like idiots protecting the defending TDF champion?

Its' not their fault Gilbert was ill placed leading into the climb- he received a bump and lost position and BMC had no other men who could help- Hincapie had to pull Evans up and Evans was certainly not going to drop back to find him.

I think Andre believes that BMC should not ride for the defending champion of the Tour de France but instead ride for a guy who hasn't won a race all year and has not been overly convincing until the past couple of days.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

it should be all for evans, every second counts right.

 

[karlboss]

He was gracious enough in the post race interviews. He is the yellow jersey/ one of the best riders in the peleton ( even more so after today ) and he does deserve more than everyone else sitting on him all the time ( so i can see why he gets frustrated ).
The sook part is odd as he was by far the strongest and did not as i stated earlier complain about Sagan afterwards.

Yes after the race he said all the right things, but watching the finale, his actions didn't reflect his words.

 

[Lance Armstrong]

According to RAI commentator, Paolo Savoldelli, Peter Sagan wanted to work with Cancellara, but his Liquigas-Cannondale team car told him not to.

 

[movingtarget]

Yeah, once Cancellara and Sagan went, yo could tell Evans was not really putting in 100% in chasing although I think it would be wise if BMC use Gilbert to attack early on the final climb of st3 which will really hurth the other favourites and then Evans can win by kicking over the top!

Yeah these stages are important for Evans if he can grab a few seconds here and there it could also frustrate riders like Menchov and Wiggins. Evans has to be close to Wiggins after the first time trial and he should be. If he starts behind Wiggins in the first TT, that would be a bonus. He will have some chances before then.

 

[UpTheRoad]

Hincapie did a nice job to bring Evans to the front at the right time. Why didn't Gilbert go along for the ride? Was he already cooked by then and trying to recover before the finale? I don't recall, but was he really that far back?

 

[hughmoore]

Hincapie did a nice job to bring Evans to the front at the right time. Why didn't Gilbert go along for the ride? Was he already cooked by then and trying to recover before the finale? I don't recall, but was he really that far back?

As stated earlier, someone ran into him, costing him momentum and places, thus he had to fight his way back up to the front. ie he was delayed.

Hugh

 

[dlwssonic]

Gilbert is kinda protected in the sense that he is expected to follow the wheels of the domestiques around evans or follow evans. But he has no domestiques just for him, they are all dedicated for evans which is the right thing to do.
But someone touched gilberts wheel and he had to stop and he lost a lot of places. There was no way the BMC domestiques around evans were gonna go back and help bring Gilbert to the front.
BMC did a great job of protecting evans and keeping him at the front. But gilbert was isolated at the back.
If nothing when wrong I would have expected Gilbert to be near the front behind Hincapie or evan's wheel at the foot of the climb.

 

[theyoungest]

Thank you Pistolero...I didn't realize that..as I was hurrying to watch the Spain vs Italy final. I was amazed....I kept looking for him and couldn't see him in the final kilometers.

I started cursing at the TV....I was really hoping for Gilbert to bring it home.

Maybe you noticed that Cadel Evans was actually pulling on the front for Gilbert? Or were you too busy with "spot the Belgian".

If you say he should have stayed with Lotto, maybe so, but once you're in the team with the Tour winner (and a possible winner of this year's Tour) there's only so much you can expect in terms of personal ambitions.

 

[dlwssonic]

Even if Gilbert go to the front on the climb by no means does it mean he would have won.
Those steep ramps are certainly not suited to him. But I think he could have had a shot for the stage although it might have been hard to beat sagan.
Stage 3 seems more like a gilbert stage.

 

[dlwssonic]

Quite a big blow for sky yesterday with froome being quite unlucky and having a puncture. He lost quite a lot of time and will be seen as less of a threat now.
Sky obviously want him to go for GC.
Porte lost a lot of time yesterday as he sacrificed himself to try to bring back froome.

 

[Kazistuta]

Even if Gilbert go to the front on the climb by no means does it mean he would have won.
Those steep ramps are certainly not suited to him. But I think he could have had a shot for the stage although it might have been hard to beat sagan.
Stage 3 seems more like a gilbert stage.

Wait, what?

Do you even know which rider Gilbert is?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g6lRr_EdrE - one of many.....