2012 Tour de France; Stage 1: Liège → Seraing (198km)

[Waterloo Sunrise]

I hadn't realise he was as lowly rated as Brad on 300m 15% wall (which was the section Brad made up most of his places - I can not comment on Bobby).

 

[Normandy]

Someone needs to read more books about cycling.

+1

I assume as there are so many posters writing similar comments they are either paid up members of Sky fan club or work for Sky PR, and are out to discreedit Sagan, a new boy on the block who is a threat to Cavendish

Sagan has won most of his victories with minimum assistance from team mates (unlike Cavendish or needs 8 helpers to win)

Sagan has worked for his wins, quite often from a long way out (TdS 2011) unlike Cavendish who only moves to the front 20m from the line.

Sagan has won different types of races unlike Cavendish

Sagan's victory celebration was tame compared to most of Cavenfish's over the top arrogant celebrations.

Sagan is an exciting new young rider, skilful, full of enthusiasm and tactically astute

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Anyone here mentioned Cav?


I went back and looked at the post which was being responded to.

It was itself a response to several people, amongst whom I could spot 3 people who definately dislike Cav, and no known fans.

 

[Winterfold]

Knees I understand - tough rouleur who can get over some hills, could help Froome back on the false flat, but expendable from Wiggins' point of view. Porte is a surprise.

I agree with El P that Wiggo did a pretty good job of looking after himself today but I wouldn't call Knees expendable - he's the only guy tall enough to keep Wiggo out of the wind

Those yellow helmets WTF?!

If I was Sagan I would have done exactly what he did - and if I had just won my first tour stage at the first time of asking I expect a stupid celebration too even if I knew Spartacus did all the work - he's just a kid give him a break.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Maybe Fabian's finally getting sick of being other people's *****. He just retweeted -

Todd Hollenshead‏@Thollenshead

Sagan won #tdf stage 2 but @f_cancellara was the strongest. I'm calling a win like that #weaksauce for not taking a pull in the last 2K.

 

[El Pistolero]

+1

I assume as there are so many posters writing similar comments they are either paid up members of Sky fan club or work for Sky PR, and are out to discreedit Sagan, a new boy on the block who is a threat to Cavendish

Sagan has won most of his victories with minimum assistance from team mates (unlike Cavendish or needs 8 helpers to win)

Sagan has worked for his wins, quite often from a long way out (TdS 2011) unlike Cavendish who only moves to the front 20m from the line.

Sagan has won different types of races unlike Cavendish

Sagan's victory celebration was tame compared to most of Cavenfish's over the top arrogant celebrations.

Sagan is an exciting new young rider, skilful, full of enthusiasm and tactically astute

I bet that's the only example you can come up with.

Ps: Sagan relies on other teams to do the work for him like Lotto today.

 

[Pentacycle]

I bet that's the only example you can come up with.

Ps: Sagan relies on other teams to do the work for him like Lotto today.

Liquigas has worked for him countless times. The thing is that you think he's profiting from Lotto, while in fact Lotto is making the mistake by riding for an off-form Vanendert.

 

[El Pistolero]

Liquigas has worked for him countless times. The thing is that you think he's profiting from Lotto, while in fact Lotto is making the mistake by riding for an off-form Vanendert.

Lotto can make a mistake and Sagan can still benefit from it. He did today.

Sky has also worked for Cav countless of times. What's your point?

 

[Angliru]

very good! btw, Michigan rocks, particularly the lake and Chicago!

Unfortunately we (Michigan) can't claim Chicago. Great city, magnificent architecture but it's in the state of Illinois but does have a spectacular view of Lake Michigan from its downtown.

 

[Pentacycle]

Lotto can make a mistake and Sagan can still benefit from it. He did today.

Sky has also worked for Cav countless of times. What's your point?

My point is that you accuse Sagan of benefiting off other teams' work. That's quite strange, since Belgians should know all about profiting, and even more about forgetting about it later.

Have you seen the stage of the Tour 1995 Bruyneel won against Indurain?(saw it for the first time today) This year his victory has been recalled several times, but no one(at least Belgians) has said that he sat in Indurains wheel for the final 30 kms, and still could barely outsprint him. And now you're accusing Sagan of profiting off other riders?

Bruyneel was smart that day, while he was covered by Jalabert in the group behind him, so he didn't have to take a turn to build up a lead with Indurain. It's just part of cycling, Sagan's just already a very mature rider, knowing Cancellara wanted to extend his lead, while he would always win the stage no matter what he did.

Belgians seem tho whine continuously about other rider's wheel sucking and profiting, while forgetting how their 'own' riders win races.

 

[Angliru]

Maybe Fabian's finally getting sick of being other people's *****. He just retweeted -

Todd Hollenshead‏@Thollenshead

Sagan won #tdf stage 2 but @f_cancellara was the strongest. I'm calling a win like that #weaksauce for not taking a pull in the last 2K.

The climb started with about a little more than 1k to go.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

The climb started with about a little more than 1k to go.

No, it did not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON46SLDiqNA

 

[Panda Claws]

My point is that you accuse Sagan of benefiting off other teams' work. That's quite strange, since Belgians should know all about profiting, and even more about forgetting about it later.

Have you seen the stage of the Tour 1995 Bruyneel won against Indurain?(saw it for the first time today) This year his victory has been recalled several times, but no one(at least Belgians) has said that he sat in Indurains wheel for the final 30 kms, and still could barely outsprint him. And now you're accusing Sagan of profiting off other riders?

Bruyneel was smart that day, while he was covered by Jalabert in the group behind him, so he didn't have to take a turn to build up a lead with Indurain. It's just part of cycling, Sagan's just already a very mature rider, knowing Cancellara wanted to extend his lead, while he would always win the stage no matter what he did.

Belgians seem tho whine continuously about other rider's wheel sucking and profiting, while forgetting how their 'own' riders win races.

Awful example as not a single Belgian likes Bruyneel or cares about his achievements.

 

[Leadbelly]

I think the most surprising thing we learnt today was that Carlton Kirby used to own a farmhouse with 25 bedrooms in Belgium.

Who'd have thunk it.

 

[Pentacycle]

Awful example as not a single Belgian likes Bruyneel or cares about his achievements.

So even when he's hated by all Belgians, they still aren't calling him a wheel sucking ***** when mentioning his 1995 Tour stage win?

Btw was Bruyneel really that unlikeable when he was still a cyclist? As a DS it's another story, but before his 'retirement' I can't find anything strange about about him.

 

[BillytheKid]

Horner Crashes on the potty and other funny stuff?

Classic Horner speak:

http://www.steephill.tv/players/720...board=tour-de-france&id=1715401725001&yr=2012

 

[ggusta]

I bet that's the only example you can come up with.

Ps: Sagan relies on other teams to do the work for him like Lotto today.

I really don't understand the insult to the rider's integrity when you state he benefits from other teams' work. I call that using your head.

He's certainly not the first last nor best at it as far as I know, but please educate me as to what is wrong with it or poor sportsmanship from the rider's perspective.

 

[El Pistolero]

I really don't understand the insult to the rider's integrity when you state he benefits from other teams' work. I call that using your head.

He's certainly not the first last nor best at it as far as I know, but please educate me as to what is wrong with it or poor sportsmanship from the rider's perspective.

I'm not insulting him. I'm saying that he rarely does things all by him self. He almost always relies on his or someone else's team. Just look at California, Suisse, Oman, etc. He regularly benefits from the work of other teams.

Only thing I can educate you on is reading I guess. Don't think I ever said something about poor sportsmanship - except for his arrogant victory salute.

 

[BillytheKid]

I'm not insulting him. I'm saying that he rarely does things all by him self. He almost always relies on his or someone else's team. Just look at California, Suisse, Oman, etc. He regularly benefits from the work of other teams.

Only thing I can educate you on is reading I guess. Don't think I ever said something about poor sportsmanship - except for his arrogant victory salute.

That was pretty bad is the face of Cancellara. I don't think it will go over well. Like Cavendish early on.

 

[maltiv]

Just caught up with the race. Man, Cancellara was strong. As usual, there was someone on his wheel to spoil the party. Sagan (as usual!) found the right wheel to follow and won fairly easily.

Unfortunately EBH screwed up by hesitating once Cancellara attacked, else it would've been a good showdown between EBH and Sagan. Honestly I'm surprised by how he gapped the peloton and managed to catch up with Sagan and Cancellara. He's clearly in his best shape ever. But still, he might be as talented (or more) as Sagan physically, but Sagan is simply a lot better tactically. Sagan doesn't hesitate, he always seem to know exactly what to do...

 

[trevim]

I find it funny that people complain about Sagan wheelsucking. Cancellara is the one that should have learned by now when to stop if he doesn't want to give away victories: this year's San Remo, Flanders 2011, now today again. He needs to choose, either he pulls and risks losing the sprint or he stops and attacks again and risks be caught.

About Lotto working for Sagan: whose fault is that? It wasn't Liquigas that made them ride at the front with no purpose. It isn't the nicest way to win but it's completely fair.

 

[El Pistolero]

I find it funny that people complain about Sagan wheelsucking. Cancellara is the one that should have learned by now when to stop if he doesn't want to give away victories: this year's San Remo, Flanders 2011, now today again. He needs to choose, either he pulls and risks losing the sprint or he stops and attacks again and risks be caught.

About Lotto working for Sagan: whose fault is that? It wasn't Liquigas that made them ride at the front with no purpose. It isn't the nicest way to win but it's completely fair.

I did not blame Sagan for anything if you're talking about me. Just pointing out that he doesn't do all on him self... No need to exaggerate his already amazing achievements.

 

[Froome19]

But what if someone goes with him who is a danger to wiggo on the GC? Wiggo just sits in and let the other teams work and follows their wheels?

I just don't see Brailsord and Yates taking that gamble. A few too many unknowns compared to having a dominant train ahead of wiggo

Well if that happens then Froome can just sit in the wheel and let the rider pull him and then attack him, or he can drop back to work for Wiggins.

Indeed though I agree it may be too risky to do though..

 

[trevim]

I did not blame Sagan for anything if you're talking about me. Just pointing out that he doesn't do all on him self... No need to exaggerate his already amazing achievements.

I wasn't talking to anyone specific. I just read the thread and pointed out that there's nothing wrong with use the work of others if they are dumb enough to do it

 

[saganftw]

I'm not insulting him. I'm saying that he rarely does things all by him self. He almost always relies on his or someone else's team. Just look at California, Suisse, Oman, etc. He regularly benefits from the work of other teams.

Only thing I can educate you on is reading I guess. Don't think I ever said something about poor sportsmanship - except for his arrogant victory salute.

can we already stop with this "arrogant victory salute" BS?

it wasnt "oh look at me im awesome"...he asked friends what to do if he wins and someone said "do a bird"...thats it,it wasnt arrogant,it was just a joke for friends