2012 Tour de France: Stage 2: Visé → Tournai (208km)

[Waterloo Sunrise]

I think he says that himself when he mentions the intermediates. Unless he goes for a few of these he will struggle to get green. Maybe if he comes out of the first week with another win we may see him change track slightly.

Not sure that answers my question, given he is going for the intermediates at present.


Someone quoted him earlier, and he gave a deliberately vague, caveated answer everytime he was asked. I have no idea why you would even care what he says, given his track record with deliberately misleading statements.

Fortunatelty actions are unambiguous in this competition.

 

[la.margna]

Nice win by Cav. Phenomenons need no trains!
Respect Mr Canonball & congrats!

 

[FignonLeGrand]

Not sure that answers my question, given he is going for the intermediates at present.


Someone quoted him earlier, and he gave a deliberately vague, caveated answer everytime he was asked. I have no idea why you would even care what he says, given his track record with deliberately misleading statements.

Fortunatelty actions are unambiguous in this competition.

Well we will have to wait and see if there are more sprints like today it can only be good. He is probably vague because he doesn't know just yet.

 

[RedheadDane]

I hope for his sake he won't be the new Johnny Hoogerland, as far as the Tour is concerned.

Yeah... me too!
And anyway; it's not like Johnny can be replaced!

Mørkøv has stopped working to save energy for a potential jersey defense again tomorrow

Exactly how many points are up? I know it's unfortunately more than four, so he'll have to go again!

Cavendish stole Greipel's wheel out of nowhere, insane positioning.

That's not very nice! How's Greipel supposed to sprint without his wheel?

I hope Lotto realizes they have to save their men for the sprint now. Let someone else control the sprints, preferably Sky. And if they don't, well have some fun in a breakaway then.

Lotto's got Bak!

janibrajkovic Bad day. @BorutBozic was hit from behind by organization car. Org car could avoid him, but would bump into other car. He chose hitting rider

That driver should be thrown out of the race!

 

[Trofinios]

Spelling corrected.

No point blabbing about weight loss if you're not going to have a dig at at 700m climb.

Possible a quality break is long gone, and he could be dropped earlier.

But if the finish was just on its own, he'd be a reasonable bet for a top 10 on such a short 'climb'

That's the thing, I'm not sure Cav will even be in a position to sprint for the victory on the final climb. I wondered if Ellingworth have read the info about the climbs in the final 20k tomorrow:

Km 181.0 - Côte de Herquelingue1.7 kilometre-long climb at 5.8% - cat 4
Km 185.0 - Côte de Quéhen1.4 kilometre-long climb at 5.9% - cat 4
Km 190.5 - Côte du Mont Lambert 1.3 kilometre-long climb at 8.4% - cat 3
Km 197.0 - Boulogne-sur-Mer0.7 kilometre-long climb at 7.4% - cat 4

I will be very impressed if Cav is just behind the attackers on top of that cat 3 climb before the finishing climb.

 

[argyllflyer]

Not sure that answers my question, given he is going for the intermediates at present.


Someone quoted him earlier, and he gave a deliberately vague, caveated answer everytime he was asked. I have no idea why you would even care what he says, given his track record with deliberately misleading statements.

Fortunatelty actions are unambiguous in this competition.

I think the difference is that going for green this year will be difficult anyway for a pure sprinter, and he's got the convenience of the ORR to aim for instead. Riding all the way to Paris, competing for intermediate sprints without a sprint train and trying to place better than the puncheurs who will likely do ok in the middle mountains, then doing the ORR where he will have to beat the likes of a fresh Boonen, who has only ridden two stage races since the Classics season, is a big ask. Maybe Boonen's not the threat, but he'll not have a few thousand miles in his legs and he owned Cav in the Spring, on at least one occasion.

I just don't see him jeopardising Gold for a half-arsed attempt at Green. Perhaps he's keeping his hand in, hoping for the likes of Sagan to fall away. As long as he's collecting points from all but the TTs and mountain stages, Cav's not got a hope.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

I think the difference is that going for green this year will be difficult anyway for a pure sprinter, and he's got the convenience of the ORR to aim for instead. Riding all the way to Paris, competing for intermediate sprints without a sprint train and trying to place better than the puncheurs who will likely do ok in the middle mountains, then doing the ORR where he will have to beat the likes of a fresh Boonen, who has only ridden two stage races since the Classics season, is a big ask. Maybe Boonen's not the threat, but he'll not have a few thousand miles in his legs and he owned Cav in the Spring, on at least one occasion.

I just don't see him jeopardising Gold for a half-arsed attempt at Green. Perhaps he's keeping his hand in, hoping for the likes of Sagan fall away. As long as he's collecting points from all but the TTs and mountain stages, Cav's not got a hope.

Your final sentence is the popular wisdom around here, but if every hilly stage ends like Sunday, and every sprint ends like today, Cav wins green, not Sagan.

Neither will be that consistent of course, but the reality is Sagan needs to be better in the sprints if he wants it, and I can still see plenty of people behind him who could beat him.

 

[TatryTour2013]

Sagan

Peter said in interview that he never experienced sprint like today - too many riders, contacts, too much nervous - and after few contacts with other riders he did not want to risk a crash and better let it go ... Tomorrow is another day.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Nice win by Cav. Phenomenons need no trains!
Respect Mr Canonball & congrats!

Agreed. Much like Robbie McEwen, though I think Cav > Robbie. Both little dudes too.

Peter said in interview that he never experienced sprint like today - too many riders, contacts, too much nervous - and after few contacts with other riders he did not want to risk a crash and better let it go ... Tomorrow is another day.

He should seek training from Abdoujaparov or Steels, both pretty good bar bangers.

 

[argyllflyer]

Your final sentence is the popular wisdom around here, but if every hilly stage ends like Sunday, and every sprint ends like today, Cav wins green, not Sagan.

Neither will be that consistent of course, but the reality is Sagan needs to be better in the sprints if he wants it, and I can still see plenty of people behind him who could beat him.

Yes, you're right - though I still think Sagan's consistency and Cav's lack of focus on the green will see PS ahead of MC come the end. Whether that's 1/2 or 2/3, time will tell.

I still don't believe Cav will finish, or if he does, there's a wee bit of rumour he and Wiggins have a deal which will see him being windbreak later on in return for Wiggins TTing him all the way to Gold on the way back from Box Hill.

 

[Froome19]

I still don't believe Cav will finish, or if he does, there's a wee bit of rumour he and Wiggins have a deal which will see him being windbreak later on in return for Wiggins TTing him all the way to Gold on the way down from Box Hill.

Why would Wiggins want the scrawny figure of Cav windbreaking him when he could be shielded by someone like Knees?

 

[Froome19]

What would he be doing differently if it was all out?

Please answer without reference to external constraints such as Wiggins which are not in his control.

Nothing..

He certainly doesnt have that as his primary objective that he would be going all out for it.

 

[Froome19]

Your final sentence is the popular wisdom around here, but if every hilly stage ends like Sunday, and every sprint ends like today, Cav wins green, not Sagan.

Neither will be that consistent of course, but the reality is Sagan needs to be better in the sprints if he wants it, and I can still see plenty of people behind him who could beat him.

Currently Sagan this season has been more consistent this season than Cavendish, especially on the type of finishes which suit him..

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

I agree he will not be going home in tears if he doesn't get it.

But right now I don't see how he could possibly be doing any more to win it, and he could certainly be doing less, so it feels very weird to say he's not going for it.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Currently Sagan this season has been more consistent this season than Cavendish, especially on the type of finishes which suit him..

Sagan has not been competing against anything like the competition level he faces here.

And as you kindly pointed out of the other thread, Sagan's wins are worth less than Cav's from now on.

The gap between 1st and 6th today is the same as the gap between 2nd and last tomorrow.

 

[Froome19]

Not sure that answers my question, given he is going for the intermediates at present.


Someone quoted him earlier, and he gave a deliberately vague, caveated answer everytime he was asked. I have no idea why you would even care what he says, given his track record with deliberately misleading statements.

Fortunatelty actions are unambiguous in this competition.

If you were in that scenario what would you do? He doesnt want to focus on it not because of the intermediates; that doesnt affect him at all as the other sprinters are starting to catch on to. He doesnt want to focus on it because of the Olympics. So there is no point him immediately giving up whilst he could be going for it for no extra effort if his plan changes and he finds his priorities change later in the Tour and he does indeed go for the green jersey. It is called playing safe and it is something Sky generally like to do see for example with sending Porte and Knees back for Froome.

 

[Cake42]

What happen with Kittel today ??

 

[gustienordic]

What happen with Kittel today ??

Stomach problems.

 

[R_Wilki]

Peter said in interview that he never experienced sprint like today - too many riders, contacts, too much nervous - and after few contacts with other riders he did not want to risk a crash and better let it go ... Tomorrow is another day.

Welcome to the big league Mr Sagan, this is not the ToC. While obviously I wasn't there but watching it on TV it did not appear that the level of contact/chaos was outside of normal. Sagan has amazing potential (i realize he isn't a pure sprinter) and he can hold his own with these guys but he definitly still has some learning and experience to gain.

 

[argyllflyer]

What happen with Kittel today ??

Quote on Twitter: "never trust a fart".

 

[argyllflyer]

Why would Wiggins want the scrawny figure of Cav windbreaking him when he could be shielded by someone like Knees?

Ok, windbreak the wrong word. Suggestion that Cav will be upfront taking more than his fair share of a turn pulling Wiggins along (therefore not likely to be contesting any points) towards vital stage finishes if yellow looks serious - in return for reciprocal favour in Olympics. It could be argued Cav needs Wiggins more than Wiggins needs him, but at this stage there is mutual benefit to it. Cav's already domestiqued for Wiggins in Romandie afaik.

 

[patrick767]

We'll have to see how the number of stages where either has an advantage compares.

You don't have to fall far down the leaderboard to be giving up a lot of points in these finishes, so he needs to hope Gilbert and others don't come to the party.

Yep. I'm not going to call anyone the sure fire jersey winner at this point, especially a guy in this first Tour, no matter how great his talent. Cav just took a win with no help from his team. What if he gets some help in other sprints and keeps winning? What if Gilbert or others take hilly stages ahead of Sagan? Gilbert has not had a season anything like last year's incredible brilliance, but he's shown some good signs in the Tour so far. 4th yesterday. 9th in the prologue. Anyone know what's happened to him this year, by the way? If he can find anything like last year's form, Sagan will have his work cut out for him in the hilly stages.

 

[Panda Claws]

Yep. I'm not going to call anyone the sure fire jersey winner at this point, especially a guy in this first Tour, no matter how great his talent. Cav just took a win with no help from his team. What if he gets some help in other sprints and keeps winning? What if Gilbert or others take hilly stages ahead of Sagan? Gilbert has not had a season anything like last year's incredible brilliance, but he's shown some good signs in the Tour so far. 4th yesterday. 9th in the prologue. Anyone know what's happened to him this year, by the way? If he can find anything like last year's form, Sagan will have his work cut out for him in the hilly stages.

Exhausted from previous season combined with a bunch of tiny problems.

For another explanation you'll have to go to the Clinic.

 

[BoxCoppi]

Yep. I'm not going to call anyone the sure fire jersey winner at this point, especially a guy in this first Tour, no matter how great his talent. Cav just took a win with no help from his team. What if he gets some help in other sprints and keeps winning? What if Gilbert or others take hilly stages ahead of Sagan? Gilbert has not had a season anything like last year's incredible brilliance, but he's shown some good signs in the Tour so far. 4th yesterday. 9th in the prologue. Anyone know what's happened to him this year, by the way? If he can find anything like last year's form, Sagan will have his work cut out for him in the hilly stages.

Toothache and generally non-optimal form I believe. He looks better now though. I could easily see him beating Sagan tomorrow. His fourth place in stage 1 was due to poor positioning, and not poor form. Hopefully he will not make the same mistake again.

 

[patrick767]

Toothache and generally non-optimal form I believe. He looks better now though. I could easily see him beating Sagan tomorrow. His fourth place in stage 1 was due to poor positioning, and not poor form. Hopefully he will not make the same mistake again.

That must have been one heck of a toothache.

I was citing 4th place as evidence of good form. That means he was in close contention and could well win a similar stage.