2012 Tour Down Under Stage 5: McLaren Vale - Old Willunga Hill 151.5km

[La Pandera]

Say again Iván?

Adrenaline fueled bravado too soon after the finish maybe? I think he knows quite well when he's thinking rationally that it isn't so, of course unless it's of a decent uphill length.

 

[El Pistolero]

Adrenaline fueled bravado too soon after the finish maybe? I think he knows quite well when he's thinking rationally that it isn't so, of course unless it's of a decent uphill length.

He meant flat, otherwise he wouldn't have mentioned Cavendish. It's not the only foolish part he said in that interview though. I don't believe for once Valverde won't try and contest the intermediate sprints or final sprint.

 

[La Pandera]

Yes yes Libertine. We all are very well aware that it's just the TDU....
And yes we all know few riders have top form, but Gerrans certainly has form since he only just became national champion.
It doesn't matter. Valverde won't be in topform either, but he did win after a 2 year suspension. That's just great.
No matter if it's the TDU, which actually was contested quite fiercely this year with aggresive riding despite the tiny hills.

Most importantly it boosts his and his team's morale. Their leader gets a win on stage that he was one of the favorites for. World Tour victory at the first event that he competes upon his return gets their and his season off on a positive note. Imagine if he won the overall. I think ACF would've be on suicide watch.

 

[La Pandera]

Seems to me Valverde actually had the benefit on some riders here. If we can believe everything that's been told in the media Valverde has trained really hard last 1.5 years. He looks skinnier than ever and was more motivated than any other cyclist in this Tour Down Under. Perhaps he will peak too soon lol. It's not very wise to be so good in January if you want to ride a good GC in the Tour.

He's generally competitive year round and he didn't exactly ride away from Gerrans for the win as he would've in the past so I'd say he still has some room for improvement in his form ahead.

 

[La Pandera]

Seems to me Valverde actually had the benefit on some riders here. If we can believe everything that's been told in the media Valverde has trained really hard last 1.5 years. He looks skinnier than ever and was more motivated than any other cyclist in this Tour Down Under. Perhaps he will peak too soon lol. It's not very wise to be so good in January if you want to ride a good GC in the Tour.

What advantage is there in being out of competition for almost 2 years? I agree that he was likely more motivated than many of his competitors but no more than any of the Aussies that had hopes of winning the stage.

 

[La Pandera]

I really enjoyed watching the last few k's last night...a very well-timed Movistar team.

I was happy for Valverde's win...a hugely emotional comeback for him.

He really looks so different, does anyone else think so?? I know he's super low weight but his face just looks so changed....

He's more pale than I'm accustomed to seeing him.

I was quite happy for him too. I punched the air in celebration when he won!

 

[La Pandera]

He meant flat, otherwise he wouldn't have mentioned Cavendish. It's not the only foolish part he said in that interview though. I don't believe for once Valverde won't try and contest the intermediate sprints or final sprint.

He's hyping his boy that's all. If you want to accept what he says as his deep down belief then that's your choice. I personally think that considering he's competed against all these sprinters on a regular basis that he knows that Valverde won't be beating them on flat finishes (regularly). Although, according to Samu, Valverde could've won the last WC road race held in Spain had he chosen the correct gear to sprint in, losing to Boonen(1st) and I believe Bettini.

 

[El Pistolero]

He's hyping his boy that's all. If you want to accept what he says as his deep down belief then that's your choice. I personally think that considering he's competed against all these sprinters on a regular basis that he knows that Valverde won't be beating them on flat finishes (regularly). Although, according to Samu, Valverde could've won the last WC road race held in Spain had he chosen the correct gear to sprint in, losing to Boonen(1st) and I believe Bettini.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH9BybSAXbE

Lol, that one wasn't even a close sprint. I think you're thinking about the WC Bettini won... Because there's no way Samu could have known what gear Valverde was sprinting with in 2005.

 

[El Pistolero]

What advantage is there in being out of competition for almost 2 years? I agree that he was likely more motivated than many of his competitors but no more than any of the Aussies that had hopes of winning the stage.

Almost 2 years being only a year and 6 months. There's no advantage, but his disadvantage is little if he really trained as hard as he has lead us to believe. Considering his talent, the weak competition, his motivation and the fact that it's a preperation race for most it isn't a big surprise he won.

 

[42x16ss]

Almost 2 years being only a year and 6 months. There's no advantage, but his disadvantage is little if he really trained as hard as he has lead us to believe. Considering his talent, the weak competition, his motivation and the fact that it's a preperation race for most it isn't a big surprise he won.

+1

Not surprised at all to see Valverde in the mix. I'm guessing he wanted (even needed?) a solid win early to get his confidence up.

Considering the time of year and noone's in peak form yet this could be good signs for Valverde, it just depends on how hard he has worked the last two or three months to get his form up. Hopefully he hasn't had to work so hard he burns out halfway through the year.

Promising signs though, from Valverde and Gerrans. That was a pretty cool drag race to the finish yesterday, hopefully both have good Ardennes campaigns this year.

 

[La Pandera]

Almost 2 years being only a year and 6 months. There's no advantage, but his disadvantage is little if he really trained as hard as he has lead us to believe. Considering his talent, the weak competition, his motivation and the fact that it's a preperation race for most it isn't a big surprise he won.

No advantage? Okay then what is his "benefit" compared to his opponents that weren't out of competition during that period other than his motivation in returning to competition?

 

[El Pistolero]

No advantage? Okay then what is his "benefit" compared to his opponents that weren't out of competition during that period other than his motivation in returning to competition?

All the reasons combined, I listed them in the very last sentence, it wasn't that long of a post to read! How many good GC men and classic stars ride this race? How many of the riders who are here are in any sort of shape? How many are really motivated for this? That's his advantage over his competitors.

 

[Froome19]

What advantage is there in being out of competition for almost 2 years? I agree that he was likely more motivated than many of his competitors but no more than any of the Aussies that had hopes of winning the stage.

True no distinct advantage yet seems like not really a disadvantage either (see willunga hill)

but he would probably have trained much harder than any of the other riders in order to prove to himself and others he's back and is probably already closer to his peak than most other riders due to it (is at a greater level of fitness)

and his training programme instead of starting in december to build up fitness started much earlier and he wouldn't have to focus on peaking for races late in the calendar
so his fitness is at a much great optimum as he could have started training rigorously earlier.

 

[will10]

True no distinct advantage yet seems like not really a disadvantage either (see willunga hill)
but he would probably have trained much harder than any of the other riders in order to prove to himself and others he's back and is probably already closer to his peak than most other riders due to it (is at a greater level of fitness) and his training programme instead of starting in december to build up fitness started much earlier and he wouldn't have to focus on peaking for races late in the calendar so his fitness is at a much great optimum as he could have started training rigorously earlier.

*and breathe*

 

[La Pandera]

True no distinct advantage yet seems like not really a disadvantage either (see willunga hill)
but he would probably have trained much harder than any of the other riders in order to prove to himself and others he's back and is probably already closer to his peak than most other riders due to it (is at a greater level of fitness) and his training programme instead of starting in december to build up fitness started much earlier and he wouldn't have to focus on peaking for races late in the calendar so his fitness is at a much great optimum as he could have started training rigorously earlier.

Add to that getting reacclimated into actually riding in large groups of riders, fighting for position etc... that can't be simulated in solo and small group rides that Valverde was taking part during his suspension.

My dispute is with the statement that there is a "benefit" to being out of competition for the "1 year and 6 months". If as El Pistolero says the level of competition is not at it's highest here at TDU then it would be harder to evaluate any advantage/benefit derived from his time away from competition versus his TDU opposition, since they are not the riders that were considered his true competition prior to his ban. My argument is that if this were Paris-Nice or Tirreno-Adriatico, where stakes are higher as would be the level of competition, then one could have a barometer of what "benefit" (if any), was gained from his time away.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[karlboss]

He showed climbing potential in those rabo-tests as well. I mean 7 w/kg is insane

These are power at Vo2 max, a pro can hold this for between 5-8 minutes if they are fresh. That a world class pursuiter has high numbers in this time period surely can't be a surprise. These results are not a good predictor of future GT stardom. 30-60minute w/kg would be. I dare say the highest w/kg at Vo2 Max will come from Rodriguez or Gilbert and I would expect closer to 8w/kg.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Well the way I know it is that the test they do they change the amount of W ever 5 minutes... if you're on the bike for more than 1 hour then you're only starting to get to above 400w (which only with the lightest riders would get to 7 w/kg, Gesink had to push 500w+ to get to 7 w/kg)

if that's the vo2max then youre right. If not... then it's the other test with a wrong name

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

It's good to learn this way for Wilco. It's not the U23 where you can easily make up for mistakes like that.

indeed.

First season especially is a massive learning experience.

 

[El Pistolero]

These are power at Vo2 max, a pro can hold this for between 5-8 minutes if they are fresh. That a world class pursuiter has high numbers in this time period surely can't be a surprise. These results are not a good predictor of future GT stardom. 30-60minute w/kg would be. I dare say the highest w/kg at Vo2 Max will come from Rodriguez or Gilbert and I would expect closer to 8w/kg.

"The dominance of Philippe Gilbert on the Muur de Huy was pretty clear: at the finish of a tactically perfect race, the Belgian champion rode the last Km (112m of climbing) in 2’40”, with a VAM of 2520m/h, corresponding to about 570w, assuming a body weight of 68 Kg."

^ 8.3 w/kg

Rodriguez: 8.2 w/kg at FW

Samu and Vino were also just over 8 w/kg

 

[karlboss]

Well the way I know it is that the test they do they change the amount of W ever 5 minutes... if you're on the bike for more than 1 hour then you're only starting to get to above 400w (which only with the lightest riders would get to 7 w/kg, Gesink had to push 500w+ to get to 7 w/kg)

if that's the vo2max then youre right. If not... then it's the other test with a wrong name

5 min step test to exhaustion, yes this will find your Vo2 max and the pros will hold this about for 8 minutes from fresh. Some will obviously do a little better and some a little worse.

Pisti
8.3 for 2.40...I'd say upper 7s for 5-8min.

 

[greenedge]

Gerrans did do well on Wilunga to even stay in contention FTW. Movistar should have attacked more. After a good performance here/ motivation it's obvious that he should be leader at the Ardennes ( along with Clarke ). He is a very smart rider who knows what wheels to follow. However this year competition will be stronger and teams and tactics will play a bigger role.

 

[theyoungest]

"The dominance of Philippe Gilbert on the Muur de Huy was pretty clear: at the finish of a tactically perfect race, the Belgian champion rode the last Km (112m of climbing) in 2’40”, with a VAM of 2520m/h, corresponding to about 570w, assuming a body weight of 68 Kg."

^ 8.3 w/kg

Rodriguez: 8.2 w/kg at FW

Samu and Vino were also just over 8 w/kg

Clearly you understand nothing about max tests...