2012 transfers...which team improved the most?

[auscyclefan94]

you said that last year

I still dont understand, why despite your strong stance you still support Phonak mkII

Because I like the riders on the team and my favourite cyclist rides for them. You have a strong stance against doping yet you will support sky. Don't tell me that nothing is going on at the Sky camp?

 

[LukeSchmid]

QuickStep stand out quite a bit as most improved. BMC have brought in some new very good leaders but the squad still looks lopsided despite them clearing out some deadwood.Sky have obviously done quite well too.
Radioshack is pretty much just Leopard plus a few old guys and domestiques so I wouldn't say they've improved much.

How is BMC lopsided?

 

[JRanton]

How is BMC lopsided?

I think he's referring to the fact that whilst they now have 2/3 of the best cyclists in the world they also still have the likes of Butler, Barton and Wyss who would struggle to make most Professional Continental teams. They're still quite young guys though so I might be being a little harsh there and I don't think either Barton or Butler are yet confirmed for next year's BMC squad anyway.

The depth of the BMC roster has certainly been significantly improved beyond the obvious signings of Gilbert and Hushovd with the likes of Van Garderen, Pinotti, Cummings and Blythe also joining the squad. And of course they've already disposed of a number of the weaker members of the 2011 team.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I think he's referring to the fact that whilst they now have 2/3 of the best cyclists in the world they also still have the likes of Butler, Barton and Wyss who would struggle to make most Professional Continental teams. They're still quite young guys though so I might be being a little harsh there and I don't think either Barton or Butler are yet confirmed for next year's BMC squad anyway.

The depth of the BMC roster has certainly been significantly improved beyond the obvious signings of Gilbert and Hushovd with the likes of Van Garderen, Pinotti, Cummings and Blythe also joining the squad. And of course they've already disposed of a number of the weaker members of the 2011 team.

Butler is staying but I think Barton is moving to an American Domestic team. BMC have gotten rid of Kroon (which is a shame), Kristoff (which is sad but he never does anything), Murphy, Beyer & Louder.

 

[ramjambunath]

UnitedHealthcare deserve a shout.
From Protour OPQS and Sky are obvious choices.

 

[JRanton]

Butler is staying but I think Barton is moving to an American Domestic team. BMC have gotten rid of Kroon (which is a shame), Kristoff (which is sad but he never does anything), Murphy, Beyer & Louder.

Zahner leaving too?

 

[auscyclefan94]

Zahner leaving too?

Yes, but he hasn't announced who he would be riding for.

 

[LukeSchmid]

I think he's referring to the fact that whilst they now have 2/3 of the best cyclists in the world they also still have the likes of Butler, Barton and Wyss who would struggle to make most Professional Continental teams. They're still quite young guys though so I might be being a little harsh there and I don't think either Barton or Butler are yet confirmed for next year's BMC squad anyway.

The depth of the BMC roster has certainly been significantly improved beyond the obvious signings of Gilbert and Hushovd with the likes of Van Garderen, Pinotti, Cummings and Blythe also joining the squad. And of course they've already disposed of a number of the weaker members of the 2011 team.

Butler showed something in the tour of Austria, stage 2. I think it is harsh to say that he is not even worthy of a place on most Pro Continental teams. He is still youngish but has to show more.

 

[greenedge]

BMC, QSOP, Sky and RSNT.

Astana and GE are also getting strong team developments along with Movistar.

 

[jens_attacks]

It gets sadder yet. I could give you the response of a few others from this forum to that question.

lol classic answers right there


about di luca,it seems that he didn't treat the almost 2 years ban like rebellin(that maniac trained to 6 hours a day behind the scooter).to be exact,i've heard the il killer partied most of the time so no surprise that he's still searching the form.in tirreno and tour de suisse he was like the old self though.


well i think radioshack improved the most.bmc too.

 

[Quixote]

Okay, thanks to those who stayed on topic. The general consensus seems to be that Quick Step/Lotto, Sky, and BMC made the best moves. Radio Shack/Leopard Trek as well as GreenEdge are stacked but lots of questions. So, if anyone is still following this thread, I want to know which team(s) addressed their needs the best.
For example, Quick Step was easy, they needed everything (except a sprinter), and now it appears they filled the gaping holes.
BMC needed some help for Cadel and it seems like they addressed that need as well as really loaded up for the classics.
But what about Sky? What did they beside better luck? Why all the switching?
Also, Rabobank...Did they do enough to remain an elite team? I know that they have some good young talent...is this the plan?
And what about Radio/Leopard? Will the big improvement come in the form of Johan B.?
Any other teams not mentioned that made improvements???

 

[auscyclefan94]

Sky according to the Cycling Quotient ranking are number one team. Personally, the only rider who makes up for any of their losses is Cavendish. What is Rowe, Puccio, Pate, Henao or Siutsou add to the team or improve the team for 2012? They are losing guys like Cummings, Henderson, Gerrans, Arversen & barry all who are quality riders and who have got results this year. I definetly wouldn't say Sky are the most improved.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Sky according to the Cycling Quotient ranking are number one team. Personally, the only rider who makes up for any of their losses is Cavendish. What is Rowe, Puccio, Pate, Henao or Siutsou add to the team or improve the team for 2012? They are losing guys like Cummings, Henderson, Gerrans, Arversen & barry all who are quality riders and who have got results this year. I definetly wouldn't say Sky are the most improved.

Cavendish, Eisel, Henao and Siutsou are worth Cummings, Henderson, Gerrans, Arverson and Barry a thousand times over.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

For all the talk about superteams, of which similar was said about Garmin & Leopard last year, CQ would suggest that teams are currently as even as in recent memory.

Sky are leading the rankings with 9900 points currently, but the ranking has typically been won by about 13000 points recently, so they're clearly being spread more evenly at the moment.

 

[Quixote]

Okay, thanks to those who stayed on topic. The general consensus seems to be that Quick Step/Lotto, Sky, and BMC made the best moves. Radio Shack/Leopard Trek as well as GreenEdge are stacked but lots of questions. So, if anyone is still following this thread, I want to know which team(s) addressed their needs the best.
For example, Quick Step was easy, they needed everything (except a sprinter), and now it appears they filled the gaping holes.
BMC needed some help for Cadel and it seems like they addressed that need as well as really loaded up for the classics.
But what about Sky? What did they beside better luck? Why all the switching?
Also, Rabobank...Did they do enough to remain an elite team? I know that they have some good young talent...is this the plan?
And what about Radio/Leopard? Will the big improvement come in the form of Johan B.?
Any other teams not mentioned that made improvements???

Okay, let's try it again. What were the needs of the teams as they came out of the Tour and how have they addressed them? Anybody...I'm honestly looking for answers...not hype.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Okay, let's try it again. What were the needs of the teams as they came out of the Tour and how have they addressed them? Anybody...I'm honestly looking for answers...not hype.

From a Sky perspective, Cav fills a need every single team had - i.e. to have the best sprinter.

The rest of the signings seem to speak to their concern at climbing depth, and a desire to have 3 or 4 guys in the last 30 in tours next year.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

It's kinda hard to rate teams like RSNT, OPQS etc., so leaving them out I think the most improved teams are:

1) BMC: Hushovd, Gilbert, TJVG, Pinotti are all great additions to a team lacking depth and Lodewyck, Blythe and Cummings are all very good riders as well.
2) Movistar: Visconti, Moreno, Herrada, Castroviejo will all do well, and Quintana is one of the biggest talents around. Add to that the returning Valverde...
3) Astana: Brajkovic, Ponzi, Gavazzi are all big names, and add Seeldraeyers, Bozic, Guarnieri and Silin and the team is looking very well rounded.

It's still early to tell though as a lot more can and will happen on the transfer market, and if Cavendish moves to Sky they'll be up there as well.

 

[Gloin22]

For all the talk about superteams, of which similar was said about Garmin & Leopard last year, CQ would suggest that teams are currently as even as in recent memory.

Sky are leading the rankings with 9900 points currently, but the ranking has typically been won by about 13000 points recently, so they're clearly being spread more evenly at the moment.

HTC won with 11,130 last year, and I think with good rides Sky wil come close to that, so I say they are quite even comapred to last year.

 

[Quixote]

From a Sky perspective, Cav fills a need every single team had - i.e. to have the best sprinter.

The rest of the signings seem to speak to their concern at climbing depth, and a desire to have 3 or 4 guys in the last 30 in tours next year.

Thanks WS, well put. Here's something that I wonder about when you add a mega-talent like Cav to any team. Sky, for example, had Swift pegged for the sprinter role? He seemed like a rising star. What happens? Given Cav's age, Swifty could be relegated to leadout for his entire career. Does that kind of addition come with as many problems as it solves?

 

[hatcher]

Thanks WS, well put. Here's something that I wonder about when you add a mega-talent like Cav to any team. Sky, for example, had Swift pegged for the sprinter role? He seemed like a rising star. What happens? Given Cav's age, Swifty could be relegated to leadout for his entire career. Does that kind of addition come with as many problems as it solves?

As promising as Swift is, he's not the sort of talent to make signing Cav a pointless venture. Swift is fast, but he's not Cav fast, and he probably won't be consistent Tour de France bunch sprint winner fast either.

Swift looks like becoming a JJ Rojas type. Good at getting over hills, yet better on a flat finish.

 

[Quixote]

It's kinda hard to rate teams like RSNT, OPQS etc., so leaving them out I think the most improved teams are:

1) BMC: Hushovd, Gilbert, TJVG, Pinotti are all great additions to a team lacking depth and Lodewyck, Blythe and Cummings are all very good riders as well.
2) Movistar: Visconti, Moreno, Herrada, Castroviejo will all do well, and Quintana is one of the biggest talents around. Add to that the returning Valverde...
3) Astana: Brajkovic, Ponzi, Gavazzi are all big names, and add Seeldraeyers, Bozic, Guarnieri and Silin and the team is looking very well rounded.

It's still early to tell though as a lot more can and will happen on the transfer market, and if Cavendish moves to Sky they'll be up there as well.

All good points. What do you think about the relative lack of activity by Garmin, Liquigas, and Saxo?

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

HTC won with 11,130 last year, and I think with good rides Sky wil come close to that, so I say they are quite even comapred to last year.

Go and look at all the years from 2005 onwards. And compare the scores of teams finishing 5th, or 10th, to get an idea of depth.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Thanks WS, well put. Here's something that I wonder about when you add a mega-talent like Cav to any team. Sky, for example, had Swift pegged for the sprinter role? He seemed like a rising star. What happens? Given Cav's age, Swifty could be relegated to leadout for his entire career. Does that kind of addition come with as many problems as it solves?

Swift can lead the sprint at the GT Cavendish doesn't go to (assuming Cav does two). If Wiggins and Froome continue their Vuelta form and are legitimately challenging for GT wins then the likes of Swift could easily become surplus to requirements, because it's hard to focus fully on both a sprint train and a GC man without leaving one of them in the dark. The likes of Siutsou are good signings because they can help for both - in the 2010 Tour and Vuelta Siutsou was pulling back breaks for 60-70-80km at a time, holding them at the classic HTC three minutes of utter pathetic racing evilness, but then at the Giro he was able to hold on in the climbs well enough to (admittedly with a breakaway) finish in the top 10 overall.

An on-form Cavendish does not need the eight minders that he was given at HTC. Now, other teams may be less willing to pull the break back if Cavendish doesn't have the team to do so (i.e. many of them needing to preserve energy for the GC men in the mountains), but then again just give him Eisel and Boasson Hagen to lead him out and sit back and let other people do the donkey work, after all what exactly do we expect GreenEdge to do, if not try to make every stage a sprint and likely gift-wrap the victory for Cavendish?

Of course, this may all fall down if the other teams demand Sky do the work since they have the best sprinter, or if they get a leader's jersey, since they'll have to do the work in the stage for the jersey already, and unless it turns into a US Postal train they won't be pulling back breaks for the sprint AND setting up the mountain duels every day, even if I fully expect Froome to go dancing away from Contador next July. We might end up with a situation like the first stage of the Volta last year, when Palmeiras Resort wanted to get the sprint for Barbosa, but preserve their climbers to domestique for Blanco, and got upset because every other team just sat back and said "this looks perfect for Barbosa. We're not going to set up your win", and Oleg Chuzhda, who went on the attack after 1km, soloed in over a minute ahead.

 

[Duartista]

The thing is some get it back better than others (and some turn over a new leaf and some don't). There are no guarantees. And then there's the matter of how much of Valverde's talent was his, and how much was Dr Fuentes's.

We will see. But I doubt we'll see the 'full' Valverde again.

Let's not discount the possibility that he will do a Scarponi and come back better than ever!

Personally, I agree with Libertine - I think he is likely to be at a similar level to 2009-10. He's never struck me as a rider that needs a lot of racing to find form.

 

[auscyclefan94]

HTC won with 11,130 last year, and I think with good rides Sky wil come close to that, so I say they are quite even comapred to last year.

They would have to get those points at Beijing as I don't see them getting those points in any of the other races they compete in.

Cavendish, Eisel, Henao and Siutsou are worth Cummings, Henderson, Gerrans, Arverson and Barry a thousand times over.

Don't agree. Cavendish is obviously a great asset but I don't see much worth in the others in the immediate future regarding wins. On the other hand look at a team like BMC.

Ins: Phillipe Gilbert, Thor Hushovd, Tejay van Garderen, Marco Pinotti, Klaas Lodewyck, Steve Cummings & Adam Blythe.
Outs: Karsten Kroon, Chad Beyer, Alexander Kristoff, Jeff Louder, John Murphy & Simon Zahner.

I could say the same sort of thing about Omega Pharma Quickstep or Movistar.