2012 transfers...which team improved the most?

[LukeSchmid]

Okay, let's try it again. What were the needs of the teams as they came out of the Tour and how have they addressed them? Anybody...I'm honestly looking for answers...not hype.

AG2R lacked sprinters and have signed a couple.
BMC lacked depth in almost all areas and have signed quality riders, especially climbers and a sprinter. They lacked riders who could win so they signed the best at doing that.
Geox lacked points so signed a couple of Iranian riders to get their points and a Polish rider with points although he is also a decent climber.

 

[Midnightfright]

AG2R lacked sprinters and have signed a couple.
BMC lacked depth in almost all areas and have signed quality riders, especially climbers and a sprinter. They lacked riders who could win so they signed the best at doing that.
Geox lacked points so signed a couple of Iranian riders to get their points and a Polish rider with points although he is also a decent climber.

If you look at who BMC have got rid of and who they've brought in then they surely have to be the most improved team?

 

[The Hitch]

2) Movistar: Visconti, Moreno, Herrada, Castroviejo will all do well, and Quintana is one of the biggest talents around. Add to that the returning Valverde...

Wow. I never realised Movi brought in Daniel Browne and Quintana. Add that to VIsconti (who i rate very very highly) and of course, the greatest all rounder of the century and Movistar are back in a big big way.

 

[The Hitch]

2) Movistar: Visconti, Moreno, Herrada, Castroviejo will all do well, and Quintana is one of the biggest talents around. Add to that the returning Valverde...

Wow. I never realised Movi brought in Daniel Browne and Quintana. Add that to VIsconti (who i rate very very highly) and of course, the greatest all rounder of the century and Movistar are back in a big big way.

Polish rider with points although he is also a decent climber.

Which Polish rider did Geox sign?

 

[hrotha]

Wow. I never realised Movi brought in Daniel Browne and Quintana. Add that to VIsconti (who i rate very very highly) and of course, the greatest all rounder of the century and Movistar are back in a big big way.

Not Dani Moreno, but Javi.

 

[The Hitch]

Not Dani Moreno, but Javi.

Ah, right.

Not quite Daniel then, but Javier has potential, and could turn out to be a great signing too.

 

[LukeSchmid]

Wow. I never realised Movi brought in Daniel Browne and Quintana. Add that to VIsconti (who i rate very very highly) and of course, the greatest all rounder of the century and Movistar are back in a big big way.



Which Polish rider did Geox sign?

I meant Robert Vrecer who is not Polish, I am just too stupid. I don't know why I ****ing bother posting I get everything ****ing wrong.

 

[hatcher]

They would have to get those points at Beijing as I don't see them getting those points in any of the other races they compete in.


Don't agree. Cavendish is obviously a great asset but I don't see much worth in the others in the immediate future regarding wins. On the other hand look at a team like BMC.

Ins: Phillipe Gilbert, Thor Hushovd, Tejay van Garderen, Marco Pinotti, Klaas Lodewyck, Steve Cummings & Adam Blythe.
Outs: Karsten Kroon, Chad Beyer, Alexander Kristoff, Jeff Louder, John Murphy & Simon Zahner.

I could say the same sort of thing about Omega Pharma Quickstep or Movistar.

I'm shocked that you don't believe Sky upgraded much. Really, really shocked. Normally you are nothing but positive about them.

"Other" than Cavendish is a bit of a ridiculous statement. Let's be honest, other than being current World Champion, Green Jersey winner, best sprinter in the world, winner of 30ish GT stages, what has he really done anyway? Just MSR I guess.

Improving a team isn't only done from the top, it can just as effectively be done from the bottom and the middle. Adding Cav and Henao to the top of the roster, and the likes of Porte, Suitsou, Eisel, Pate to the middle makes them much improved. Buying wins isn't the only way to get wins.

As for what the "others" add result wise, together they had top 10 overalls in Giro and the Dauphine, 7th in Paris-Roubaix, 4th in Vuelta a Colombia, 2nd in Tour of Utah, and Porte, Suitsou, Pate, Eisel probably rode a total of 10 days for themselves all season long.

And I do wonder how many predicted wins BMC lose with Kristoff and Kroon leaving. It's definitely a lot.

BMC have certainly improved, but "other" than Evans and maybe Van Avermaet they didn't really have anyone to begin with. And yes, that was a deliberately hyperbolic and equally pointless point.

 

[El Pistolero]

Team Sky, assuming you know what.

Other than that they got what is probably the biggest gt prodigy around, and a few other good riders like Richie Porte.

BMC by getting Gilbert have doubled their talent pool and I await to see what type of rider Hushovd will be next year.

Team Sky was pretty strong this year.

QS only had 2 wins this year and look at their squad now. They might not be the best team next year, but will most likely be the most improved.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Team Sky was pretty strong this year.

QS only had 2 wins this year and look at their squad now. They might not be the best team next year, but will most likely be the most improved.

Relatively yes, but not necessarily in absolute terms. I don't think their signings are earth shattering, but then the team was clearly rank poor this year, so I'm sure they'll be much better.

But I expect both BMC & Sky's new guys to deliver more in absolute terms, even if relative to their team's 2011 success, it is relatively less than the incremental delivered for OPQS.

 

[El Pistolero]

Relatively yes, but not necessarily in absolute terms. I don't think their signings are earth shattering, but then the team was clearly rank poor this year, so I'm sure they'll be much better.

But I expect both BMC & Sky's new guys to deliver more in absolute terms, even if relative to their team's 2011 success, it is relatively less than the incremental delivered for OPQS.

Well, that seems to be the point of this thread otherwise you could just ask which team is the strongest next year.

But clearly it's a toss up between Sky, QS and BMC. If Sky signs Cav at least.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Well, that seems to be the point of this thread otherwise you could just ask which team is the strongest next year.

No, you're missing the point.

3 different metrics -

1. Who is the strongest. I.e. who wins most races in 2012?

2. Who improves by the most as a proportion of their existing strength - i.e. for whom will (next year's wins/this year's wins) be the greatest?

3. Who improves the most in absolute terms. I.e. for whom wil (next year's wins - this year's wins) be the greatest?


Either 2 or 3 is a legitimate approach to this question - clearly approach 1 is not, but then now I've explained this, clearly you can see I never suggested it.

 

[El Pistolero]

Who? Farrar?

Cav duh. The rest of the sprinters don't win nearly enough

Poor guys

 

[Quixote]

No, you're missing the point.

3 different metrics -

1. Who is the strongest. I.e. who wins most races in 2012?

2. Who improves by the most as a proportion of their existing strength - i.e. for whom will (next year's wins/this year's wins) be the greatest?

3. Who improves the most in absolute terms. I.e. for whom wil (next year's wins - this year's wins) be the greatest?

Again, thanks WS for clarifying my original question.
Lots of good replies regarding Sky and BMC. I'd like to redirect to another puzzling item. Why is it that Garmin, Liquigas, and Saxo did very little in the summer feeding frenzy...especially with the HTC demise? Garmin had a huge spring and Tour...but do they have some tricks up their sleeve to replace Thor? Is Liquigas putting all of it eggs in the youth movement basket? Is Saxo siting pretty with Alberto and a couple punishers?

 

[luckyboy]

Radio Shack/Leopard Trek as well as GreenEdge are stacked

Hahaha.

Anyway, GreenEdge didn't even exist last year so they don't count in this thread.

 

[hatcher]

Garmin must have a lot of announcements to come, as they seem to have lost a lot more riders numberswise than they've added.

As far as I can tell they have at least 8 riders leaving. Five of their Aussies, plus Julian Dean, Gabriel Rasch, Thor Hushovd.

Only names I can find coming in are Robbie Hunter, Jacob Rathe. Thomas Dekker maybe. Have I missed/forgotten anyone?

Vaughters did say their incomings would have more quality than their outgoings, so should/could be a few interesting names.

 

[Quixote]

Vaughters did say their incomings would have more quality than their outgoings, so should/could be a few interesting names.

That's what I was wondering...Vaughters is a cagey guy, I can't believe his plan involved losing better talent than he gains. Thor may be irreplaceable, but the TTT, some sprint wins, and a Spring Classic podium should all remain his goals. So...what your saying is let's wait and see. Good.
But, somebody help me with Liquigas. Also...did the moves that Euskaltel made address some of their needs? How? Sammy's effort in the Tour seemed to put them on the verge of a higher team level. Are they going to improve on that or remain the pesky super talented group of individual riders.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Cav duh. The rest of the sprinters don't win nearly enough

Poor guys

I guess I should have guessed that. True they don't win enough.

 

[El Pistolero]

I guess I should have guessed that. True they don't win enough.

I actually thought your post was a joke

 

[Dutchsmurf]

But, somebody help me with Liquigas.

As far as I'm aware, Liquigas is more or less the same team still. They didn't lose anyone important, they signed some young guys. They already had a good team, they still do now. Nothing to see here.

 

[canyonball]

Only names I can find coming in are Robbie Hunter, Jacob Rathe. Thomas Dekker maybe. Have I missed/forgotten anyone?

Rosseler? or else I'm dreaming. They could use some quality signings, but who's available at this point and more importantly what areas do they need/want to cover?

 

[roundabout]

Also Koldo Fernandez

CQ says Fernandez, Howes, Hunter, Kreder, Rathe, Rosseler are certains

 

[hatcher]

Ah yeah, forgot about Rosseler, and Fernandez is actually an interesting left-field signing. Little bit underwhelming otherwise. Curious to know what the plans for Dekker are.

 

[miguelvazpinto]

It is going to be a great season,that's for sure. Sky is making very interestings moves on the transfers market. With Henao and Froome they now face the grand tours from another perspective. I think that EBH is going to confirme his credits next spring races. If Mark Cavendish signs for Sky I think they should be seened as the most improved team in 2012.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Sky definitely is a team which has improved a lot but I think next season we'll see that part of why that is, is beacuse of their current riders improving like Froome, Uran, Eddy Boss etc.