2012 Vuelta a España: Stage 4:Barakaldo-Estación de Valdezcaray 160.6 Km

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Sep 9, 2009
Publicus said:
No I don't have a loose definition of immediate. Just a fairly standard understanding of the legal concept "proximate cause". You are confusing the term proximate cause with the ACTUAL cause of the accident. Two different things.

EDIT: There's more to the concept than what I've laid out here (i.e., foreseeability etc.).
You're a lawyer, fine, but the term is originally, and still, a philosophical one, and I used it correct.
Jul 17, 2012
sartoris said:
SEEMINGLY ROBBED??? You must be joking, dude. I remember that stage cause I SAW IT back in '85 (you probably hadn't been born yet). It was the 2nd time the Spanish TV broadcast the Vuelta live and I was riveted to the sofa for the whole race. That day they rode around the mountains in Madrid the last but one stage, under horrible weather conditions (snow, rain, wind). Millar lead the GC with more than 6 min over Delgado, who attacked on the Puerto de Cotos and caught Pepe Recio (riding for Kelme) and both took turns until the finish line. Back in the peloton, no one seemed very interested in closing the gap, not even Millar, more intent on marking Cabestany or Pacho Rodríguez, closer to him in the GC. When he realised that Delgado was getting away it was too late and Millar's team (Peugeot I think) failed miserably !!! Eventually Delgado finished around 7' before Millar, who lost the Vuelta. Of course he knew what was going on !! I remember his desperate look, almost begging anyone around for help to no avail.

So either you don't know what you're talking about, which is embarrasing, or you're intentionally "embellishing" your comment so that Spanish riders look like Froome & Co. on the 4th stage of Vuelta '12, that is, like a piece of s*it.
"After the attack of Delgado and Recio had got to a certain stage I called upon the help that I thought I'd been assured the night before. But when I went to the team car of Panasonic I got 'no' for an answer. They didn't keep to their word. Millar would have won if he hadn't been double-crossed. After telling us that they would help they were bought off by the Spanish during the stage."
Roland Berland

Peougeot had struck a deal with Panasonic, but Orbea offered more cash and Millar got shafted