2013, Brabantse Pijl - La Flèche Brabançonne 10/04/13 200km (1.HC)

[Netserk]

I'm sorry, but Valverde mostly wheelsucked behind Phil and Evans in 2010. Obviously he won the sprint. But he was not stronger than Phil and neither was Evans.

If Valverde worked better with the group then maybe they'd have caught them. Imo Phil was the strongest, but Kolobnev/Vino attacked after the Roche aux Faucons, a tactical place to attack. They also worked perfectly together because Vino offered Kolobnev the thing he most desires.

He definitely had the legs to win that year.

So he was too weak to drop/stay away from his opponent that would outsprint him, yet he was strong enough to win?

 

[El Pistolero]

So he was too weak to drop/stay away from his opponent that would outsprint him, yet he was strong enough to win?

I'll give you an example you can understand:

Boonen doing most of the work in the E3 Prijs Vlaanderen and ends up losing the sprint to Pippo Pozzato who was in his wheel.



Everyone thought Pippo was the strongest, but in the end Boonen won the big one, Roubaix.

 

[Netserk]

I'll give you an example you can understand:

Boonen doing most of the work in the E3 Prijs Vlaanderen and ends up losing the sprint to Pippo Pozzato who was in his wheel.



Everyone thought Pippo was the strongest, but in the end Boonen won the big one, Roubaix.

Because Roubaix is a different race Bad example.

 

[El Pistolero]

Because Roubaix is a different race Bad example.

Nope, Roubaix is all about power and Pippo did the last 20 or so km slower than Boonen. Boonen looked stronger in the Ronde as well, but he got marked out big time.

 

[Netserk]

So Roubaix and E3 aren't two different races on different days, or LBL and LBL (the same year) are different races on different days?

 

[El Pistolero]

You're missing the point. We're not discussing races, but the form of said riders. And Boonen's form was better in 2009 despite losing the sprint to Pippo in the E3 Prijs Vlaanderen. It's just that Pippo is the Valverde of the cobbled classics.

 

[Netserk]

I'm not saying that Phil wasn't in better shape than Valverde. I'm saying that when he can't stay away from him nor beat him in the sprint, then he doesn't have the legs to win.

 

[El Pistolero]

I'm not saying that Phil wasn't in better shape than Valverde. I'm saying that when he can't stay away from him nor beat him in the sprint, then he doesn't have the legs to win.

With different tactics he could've won the race. Hence he had the legs to win. If he was like Valverde he could've also won that sprint you know, but what's the point of riding for second.

Vino/Kolobnev were the smartest in the race, but not the strongest(even if they were one of the strongest). They attacked right after the Roche aux Faucons. Of course Phil should've reacted the moment Vino did, and he would've been able to follow him. No doubt in my mind. That's the mistake he made that day, not following a Vino attack.

Anyway, that race has no winner for me by the way.

 

[Netserk]

Then Valverde would have followed him and beat him in the sprint.

 

[El Pistolero]

Then Valverde would have followed him and beat him in the sprint.

Nope, because Phil wouldn't have done a suicide attack at the Saint Nicholas if no one was ahead. And it was Evans by the way who brought Phil back after that attack, not Valverde.

Anyway, Valverde was banned for his involvement in Fuentes, so it's a moot discussion(and if you read the stories about Kelme in 2003 you can understand why).

 

[Netserk]

I know. And since it would be for the win, others would have brought Phil back again.

 

[El Pistolero]

I know. And since it would be for the win, others would have brought Phil back again.

Why not gamble on the sprint? If he hadn't made that attack he'd have much more energy left.

Or he could drop Valverde at the final "hill" where Vino dropped Kolobnev. One thing's for sure, nobody could follow Phil's uphill accelerations at the time, so it could've worked as that final hill is much closer to the finish.

 

[Netserk]

Nope, because Phil wouldn't have done a suicide attack at the Saint Nicholas if no one was ahead. And it was Evans by the way who brought Phil back after that attack, not Valverde.

Anyway, Valverde was banned for his involvement in Fuentes, so it's a moot discussion(and if you read the stories about Kelme in 2003 you can understand why).

I don't see why that would make it mood.

 

[Netserk]

Valverde was both stronger and smarter than Phil. If Vino hadn't won (which thank god he did!) then Valverde would.

 

[El Pistolero]

Valverde was both stronger and smarter than Phil. If Vino hadn't won (which thank god he did!) then Valverde would.

If he was stronger he wouldn't have gotten dropped on the Saint Nicholas.

Valverde would get DQED either way. Would never have won.

 

[Netserk]

If he was stronger he wouldn't have gotten dropped on the Saint Nicholas.

Valverde would get DQED either way. Would never have won.

If Gilbert was stronger, he'd stay away.

Yes he would. Just like he podium'd it.

 

[El Pistolero]

If Gilbert was stronger, he'd stay away.

If Gilbert and Valverde would both be riding alone that day, he'd have gotten away. But like I said, Evans brought him back with Valverde sucking wheel. As I said before, Boonen was the strongest at the E3 Prijs Vlaanderen 2009, but not that much stronger that he could do a solo or win the reduced group sprint. Wasted too much energy before while riders notorious for wheelsucking conserve their energy.

Shouldn't you hate Valverde anyway? He's like Pippo and even worse than poor old Thor Hushovd.

I agree, Valverde rode very cleverly that day... For third place.

He rode incredibly stupid for first place.

 

[Sylvester]

Nice reading you two chaps. Great analysis!

 

[El Pistolero]

If Gilbert was stronger, he'd stay away.

Yes he would. Just like he podium'd it.

Why are you posting a blank picture?

 

[Netserk]

Why are you posting a blank picture?

Vino is still the official winner

 

[cineteq]

Vino is still the official winner

Do you know how much did he pay for this one?

 

[Flamin]

If Gilbert and Valverde would both be riding alone that day, he'd have gotten away. But like I said, Evans brought him back with Valverde sucking wheel. As I said before, Boonen was the strongest at the E3 Prijs Vlaanderen 2009, but not that much stronger that he could do a solo or win the reduced group sprint. Wasted too much energy before while riders notorious for wheelsucking conserve their energy.

Shouldn't you hate Valverde anyway? He's like Pippo and even worse than poor old Thor Hushovd.

I agree, Valverde rode very cleverly that day... For third place.

He rode incredibly stupid for first place.

Lol, why don't you just leave it by 'I hate Valverde' instead of making things up?

 

[El Pistolero]

Lol, why don't you just leave it by 'I hate Valverde' instead of making things up?

Rewatch your self then. Good luck spotting Valverde with the wind in his nose.

You're right though, I don't like Valverde. Because of his racing style and all the stories I heard about Kelme already in 2003.

 

[Flamin]

Rewatch your self then. Good luck spotting Valverde with the wind in his nose.

You're right though, I don't like Valverde. Because of his racing style and all the stories I heard about Kelme already in 2003.

That's the point. There were barely any images from Evans-Valverde, so how do you know Evans brought Valverde back to Phil on his own? That wouldn't even make sense at all, since what you are claiming is that Evans had some magical resurrection after Phil completely destroyed him on Saint-Nicolas.

 

[jaylew]

Shouldn't you hate Valverde anyway? He's like Pippo and even worse than poor old Thor Hushovd.

Wow. Just...wow. I started to make a longer response to this, but really what's the point?