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2013 Tour of Beijing, 11th to 15th October (WT)

Page 6 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
May 31, 2013
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gooner said:
Another thing I noticed from the stage is Dombrowski and thinking what a waste of season it has been for him.

I can't see much changing in the future. Sky will have more eyes on Edmondson going forward.

I hope he leaves when his contract is up next year. The move just didn't seem right to me from day one.

I don't think he'd say it was a waste at all. He's ridden plenty of wt races and been given the opportunity to lead in a few (Suisse for instance) so will have gained experience from it as a whole
 
Grupetto1 said:
I don't think he'd say it was a waste at all. He's ridden plenty of wt races and been given the opportunity to lead in a few (Suisse for instance) so will have gained experience from it as a whole
But last year he did much better against similar competition, for example in ToC. So it seems like he has taken a step backwards. That one stage in TDS is really the only impressive performance he's had this year.
 
maltiv said:
But last year he did much better against similar competition, for example in ToC. So it seems like he has taken a step backwards. That one stage in TDS is really the only impressive performance he's had this year.

His form hasn't been great but he also has a lot to learn about riding in a large pro peloton. Lots of crashes during the season and he doesn't know how to move around the bunch.
 
theyoungest said:
First year pros on Sky don't shine at all, when they get the chance to do so they're too tired from riding on the front for their leaders in WT races.

I think the Yates brothers made a wise decision not to join them.

Dowsett, Henao.

Rowe and Puccio were par I guess.

Kennaugh and Nordhaug on the downside?

So GreenEdge's 50% hit rate from a sample size of two is hardly proven to be better.
 
Apr 15, 2013
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theyoungest said:
First year pros on Sky don't shine at all, when they get the chance to do so they're too tired from riding on the front for their leaders in WT races.

Edmondson would be a counter to that argument. He's had a great year. However, the point of a first year neo-pro is to acclimatise to the demands of WT cycling and develop for the future, not necessarily 'shine' straight away. Performances next year and the year after should be a better gauge of how well they are doing.

Dombrowski struggled with knee problems at the start of the year due to a change in seat position. That adaptation probably took some time but could pay dividends in the future.
 
Ferminal said:
Dowsett, Henao.

Rowe and Puccio were par I guess.

Kennaugh and Nordhaug on the downside?

So GreenEdge's 50% hit rate from a sample size of two is hardly proven to be better.
Nordhaug was better than expected as a neo pro, Sky didn't expect him to be any good and only signed him due to EBH's contract...but he ended up being their strongest rider in the ardennes (which doesn't say much though, but he was top 30 in F-W after being in a late breakaway) and he was top 10 in mountain/hilly stages of TDS and TDP.

But it's not really comparable to look at their 2010 neo pros, as that was before they started torturing their riders with Kerrison's ridiculous training regimes. Both Dombrowski and Boswell have admitted that they peaked in January. Since then they've simply been exhausted. The Mallorca training camp was allegedly harder than any GT and ruined the season for almost every Sky rider who attended (note that neither Porte nor Froome were there, except from a few days).
 
maltiv said:
Nordhaug was better than expected as a neo pro, Sky didn't expect him to be any good and only signed him due to EBH's contract...but he ended up being their strongest rider in the ardennes (which doesn't say much though, but he was top 30 in F-W after being in a late breakaway) and he was top 10 in mountain/hilly stages of TDS and TDP.

But it's not really comparable to look at their 2010 neo pros, as that was before they started torturing their riders with Kerrison's ridiculous training regimes. Both Dombrowski and Boswell have admitted that they peaked in January. Since then they've simply been exhausted. The Mallorca training camp was allegedly harder than any GT and ruined the season for almost every Sky rider who attended (note that neither Porte nor Froome were there, except from a few days).

Do you remember who attended? I don't :(
 
May 28, 2012
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Grupetto1 said:
Siutsou, Kennaugh, Pate, Cataldo, Puccio, Kiri, Lopez were all there and had decent seasons

Depends on how deep they went during the camp. Perhaps Dombro and Boswell took things too seriously and dug deeper than what was good for them? Kiri, Lopez, Pate and Siutsov are more experienced afer all, knowing what it takes to build up towards racing without jeopardizing in-season form.
 
CycloAndy said:
Edmondson would be a counter to that argument. He's had a great year. However, the point of a first year neo-pro is to acclimatise to the demands of WT cycling and develop for the future, not necessarily 'shine' straight away. Performances next year and the year after should be a better gauge of how well they are doing.

Dombrowski struggled with knee problems at the start of the year due to a change in seat position. That adaptation probably took some time but could pay dividends in the future.

agree, it would be ridiculous to gauge the team, talent or whatever just after one season at the top level. Progress is however needed from year 2 imo.
 
Grupetto1 said:
Siutsou, Kennaugh, Pate, Cataldo, Puccio, Kiri, Lopez were all there and had decent seasons

Most of these are support riders. Not sure how one can objectively gauge their season. For me the riders who were supposed to bring results are: Froome, Sir Wiggo, Porte, Henao, Thomas, Swift, Uran and EBH.

Overall I think the team delivered in most of the key races (my reasoning wrt what is important to the team) except classics.
 
maltiv said:
.

But it's not really comparable to look at their 2010 neo pros, as that was before they started torturing their riders with Kerrison's ridiculous training regimes. Both Dombrowski and Boswell have admitted that they peaked in January. Since then they've simply been exhausted. The Mallorca training camp was allegedly harder than any GT and ruined the season for almost every Sky rider who attended (note that neither Porte nor Froome were there, except from a few days).

I've only seen that excuse from JTL. Anyway, it's far from a shut case that this explanation should be believed without question for every rider who underperforms at Sky and that all the fault lies with the allegedly incompetent management of rider training.

It's not really uncommon for riders (specifically neopros) to miss expectations when moving to new teams. Boswell and Dombrowski came from a strong U23 team so not only were they moving continent and not speaking the local tongue, they also had the daunting task of moving from a small but very well run team to a place where they would be the least established of 50+ employees.

Or did Lander, Hepburn, McCarthy, Agostini, Cattaneo, Lutsenko etc all do GT training camps too?
 
Dec 30, 2011
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Grupetto1 said:
Siutsou, Kennaugh, Pate, Cataldo, Puccio, Kiri, Lopez were all there and had decent seasons

Precisely, after Wiggins pulled out Cataldo should have performed better at the Giro. Sioutsou wasn't much help in either the Tour or Giro after his amazing Trentino performance. Lopez wasn't much help at the Tour and Kiri sitting at home after missing the time limit certainly wasn't
 
Oct 29, 2011
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Dan Martin's photo in Beijing

the most interesting pic during the race:D
BWXJrrHCMAExF8o.jpg


Actually Dan Martin is very motivated to win in Beijing (partly for the Panda...), but Movistar played a success tactics during the race (Intxausti got time bonus in the 1st intermediate sprint in Stage 4 and then counter-attack once Dan Martin catch Rui Costa's attack)

But it is still good that he enjoyed the race:
BWdmPokCUAE1TWv.jpg
 
Jun 3, 2009
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coimbrawu said:
the most interesting pic during the race:D
BWXJrrHCMAExF8o.jpg


Actually Dan Martin is very motivated to win in Beijing (partly for the Panda...), but Movistar played a success tactics during the race (Intxausti got time bonus in the 1st intermediate sprint in Stage 4 and then counter-attack once Dan Martin catch Rui Costa's attack)

But it is still good that he enjoyed the race:
BWdmPokCUAE1TWv.jpg

There should of been a Panda of the mountain jersey for the peloton (which he would have won and deserved as he got into the spirit of it) as well as the breakaway.
 
Oct 29, 2011
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happytramp said:
It was his first time as a pre-race favrouite. It was to tough for him to chase down all the attacks but I think he played it quite well, he almost judged it correctly but let Intxausti get that bit to far ahead of him.
Yes. I think he is the strongest in the race: match Rui Costa well and try to bridge to Intxausti but fail at the finish line. He just lost the race to a better team.

As someone said, maybe he need some panda chasing him in Zoncolan, 2014 giro :D
 
Ferminal said:
I've only seen that excuse from JTL. Anyway, it's far from a shut case that this explanation should be believed without question for every rider who underperforms at Sky and that all the fault lies with the allegedly incompetent management of rider training.

It's not really uncommon for riders (specifically neopros) to miss expectations when moving to new teams. Boswell and Dombrowski came from a strong U23 team so not only were they moving continent and not speaking the local tongue, they also had the daunting task of moving from a small but very well run team to a place where they would be the least established of 50+ employees.

Or did Lander, Hepburn, McCarthy, Agostini, Cattaneo, Lutsenko etc all do GT training camps too?
Sky's method, at least what we know of it, seems to be based on training incredibly hard, to an extent that Wiggo could only really do it for one season. What experience do they have with bringing young riders up to speed with that method? The only youngster I can think of is Kennaugh, but he came from the track team so he was already relatively 'experienced' when he started training with the big boys.

Yes, those neo pros you mention haven't been that spectacular either, but did they shine in pro races the way Dombrowski did last year? You could say that those races were only on the American scene, but in those very same races he wasn't even close to last year's level.
 
Wiggins form drop is now because their training is too hard, really? He seemed pretty good in 2009 and 2011. There's a difference between "cbf" and the impossible. Also seems to defy what all of them say about having individually tailored and closely monitored training. Their training is so good that they let riders get too fatigued in January and do nothing about it for nine months. With that kind of care you must think that Froome and Porte just do their own thing.

But whenever a rider improves/deteriorates at Sky the only explanation is their super unique training methods. Nothing to do with the riders themselves and all the other factors which affect form from one season to another.

All the names I mentioned should be better than "DNF" at the pro level, I don't really think there are grades to how well you transition, you either do and perform as expected or better than expected; or you don't, and you bomb.
 
Ferminal said:
Wiggins form drop is now because their training is too hard, really? He seemed pretty good in 2009 and 2011. There's a difference between "cbf" and the impossible. Also seems to defy what all of them say about having individually tailored and closely monitored training. Their training is so good that they let riders get too fatigued in January and do nothing about it for nine months. With that kind of care you must think that Froome and Porte just do their own thing.

But whenever a rider improves/deteriorates at Sky the only explanation is their super unique training methods. Nothing to do with the riders themselves and all the other factors which affect form from one season to another.

All the names I mentioned should be better than "DNF" at the pro level, I don't really think there are grades to how well you transition, you either do and perform as expected or better than expected; or you don't, and you bomb.
Of course part of it is due to the riders themselves, but when you scoop up the most talented espoirs and they get zero results it also must have something to do with your approach as a team. Especially when those very same espoirs in those very same races were among the very best last year.

It's not all bad, I remember a very strong stage by Dombrowski in the Tour de Suisse for instance, but he's certainly not better than last year. Which you would expect.
 

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