2014: Contador vs Nibali, the official *****ing thread

[Red Rick]

Netserk, when was the last few times Nibali crashed in GT's? Genuinely curious, I don't really recall him crashing a lot outside of one days in recent years.

He crashed in the Giro last year

 

[PirazziAttacksVino]

Undoubtedly Contador was back at his older self this year and was prepared for epic climbing performances of Verbier/Giro 2011 proportions.

However, I still consider Nibali the best GT rider of the year, as he actually beat Contador in a GT. And please stop with the "Contador would have won had he not have fallen" crap, as it is as uncertain as the 2020 Tour winner. There are lots of possible events that could have happened. Nibali managing to limit the losses and still win it was a big possibility too, as he was at the absolute best and his numbers from this Tour prove that Contador had to be more than stellar on all the climbs and better than Nibbles in the ITT in order to win.

Of course, there is still the possibility that Contador would have won that, but we'll never know for sure. So Nibali ftw

 

[Jspear]

When you ride the cobbled classics these things happen more often

Aye, I do believe he has had a fair amount of crashes on tarmac as well.

 

[sir fly]

They haven't raced against each other to completion. Therefore its a moot point.

Wait...
I thought staying on the bike is basic part of racing and that it also counts.
Anyway, take a look at the results before the abandonment.
This thread is therapeutic utility for Contador's fans. Nothing more than that.

 

[Jspear]

I totally agree with all of this.... except for the GC's this year (which this thread is about) Nibali crushing it out front on the cobbles in the rain = Mental Toughness. Crashing twice on the descent while trying to keep an eye on his rival = Less so.

Can we not just agree that in this one respect, this year Nibali has had the edge on Contador. And that this element is in fact very important for GC men. Next year it could well be very different and Contador (if at his best) will totally have guys under that kind of pressure.

I agree so far. I will not agree if AC wins the Vuelta. He will have done it after recently fracturing his tibia and for me that is more impressive than VN's win. I will admit VN had a better GT season this year if AC doesn't win the Vuelta. I actually haven't even voted yet in this thread. I'm purposefully waiting till after the Vuelta. This thread will be a lot more meaningful then.

 

[cineteq]

That's redundant to the points that was being made. sir fly said they'd raced against each other in a GT this year, they didn't race against each other to completion of that GT though.

Having raced for half a GT =/= a full GT.

Completion of race for not handling a bike properly, or not paying attention, or 'bad luck', or misfortune is NOT an excuse, don't manipulate the readers. Everything counts.

This thread is therapeutic utility for Contador's fans. Nothing more than that.

Couldn't have said it any better.

 

[LaFlorecita]

They all crash. Not sustaining a bad injury when crashing is primarily (but not exclusively) due to luck.

It's like they all rolled a die, Nibali got a 6 the others a 1 and now Nibali fans can't contain themselves with their eagerness to call luck "bike handling" because when it comes to actual qualities, such as climbing and time trialling, he doesn't measure up.

Great post

 

[LaFlorecita]

By the way, I like Contador. I just think that deciding factor between them in the one GC the rode together this year was Nibali's nerve on the cobbles which put him in a place where he could ride "tranquillo" and let froome and contador worry about what he might do next

Contador was on a different bike because he crashed, got Roche's bike, and then stopped a km later to get his leg patched up.

 

[happytramp]

I actually haven't even voted yet in this thread. I'm purposefully waiting till after the Vuelta. This thread will be a lot more meaningful then.

This is probably the only correct response to this thread. I voted Nibali (so far), but this GC isn't over, anything could happen. I'm waiting for another ten days before looking at this thread again

 

[IronCQ]

So the man who in the last 2 years entered 3 GTs winning 2 and arriving second in the third, is behind the man who won...wtf, what did he won actually about GTs in the last 2 years? At least, Nairo got 1 first and a podium, and Chris 1 first and some bruises...
Oh, sorry, I should have read the poll is about 2014....

We all know, Le Tour is the big game, ask Alberto if he would trade a couple of Vuelta for 1 Boucle...

 

[Afrank]

Wait...
I thought staying on the bike is basic part of racing and that it also counts.
Anyway, take a look at the results before the abandonment.
This thread is therapeutic utility for Contador's fans. Nothing more than that.

Of course staying on your bike is part of racing, but that doesn't mean if one rider crashes out that another beat them in that GT. It means the rider wasn't able to finish the GT. And this is even more true in the case of Contador's crash being a product of bad luck, instead of something like rider mistake or bad handling or something else like that.

The first half was very good for Nibali (especially the parcours) and he was better than Contador, that's true. I loved how he raced and it convinced me he would battle for the top step instead of for the podium. But no one can deny there was still plenty more that could have happened in the 2nd half as they hit the mountains.

Completion of race for not handling a bike properly, or not paying attention, or 'bad luck', or misfortune is NOT an excuse, don't manipulate the readers. Everything counts.

Manipulate the readers? I'm stating what I think. Last I checked this was a discussion forum. But I digress, saying Nibali didn't beat Contador in a GT because Contador didn't complete the GT isn't making excuses. It's stating facts.

How about this, I'll agree Nibali beat Contador in 1/2 a GT.

 

[LaFlorecita]

So the man who in the last 2 years entered 3 GTs winning 2 and arriving second in the third, is behind the man who won...wtf, what did he won actually about GTs in the last 2 years? At least, Nairo got 1 first and a podium, and Chris 1 first and some bruises...
Oh, sorry, I should have read the poll is about 2014....

We all know, Le Tour is the big game, ask Alberto if he would trade a couple of Vuelta for 1 Boucle...

Pathetic troll attempt = pathetic

 

[SeriousSam]

I fed today's data into a sophisticated Tour de France simulator which resulted in the following prediction for the Tour, had AC and CF not crashed:

 

[LaFlorecita]

Nice one SeriousSam

 

[SafeBet]

Nice one SeriousSam

Of course not a troll attempt, right?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Of course not a troll attempt, right?

It's just a joke... c'mon

 

[happytramp]

It's just a joke... c'mon

So it's not Pathetic? I don't understand, apparently the last one " = pathetic" Or is it only Pathetic when it's not favorable to Contador?

Maybe something like this.

Posts against Contador = Pathetic trolling
Posts against Nabili/Others = Funny joke

Sound about right?

 

[Netbalp]

Does anyone have guts to write 'I support a rider А, but I think a rider В could more likely have won the Tour'? Seemingly, no. Another thread derailed under the weight of battle of broken expectations and reality.

 

[LaFlorecita]

So it's not Pathetic? I don't understand, apparently the last one " = pathetic" Or is it only Pathetic when it's not favorable to Contador?

Maybe something like this.

Posts against Contador = Pathetic trolling
Posts against Nabili/Others = Funny joke

Sound about right?

Of course not.

If SeriousSam had posted, "OMG haha see how good Froome and Contador are, LOL Nibali would have NEVER beaten them, I mean when has Nibali ever beaten an in-form Froome and Contador? Right NEVER "

That would have been trolling.

In your opinion the following isn't trolling? To me it seems like this guy is desperate to get some Contador fans worked up.

So the man who in the last 2 years entered 3 GTs winning 2 and arriving second in the third, is behind the man who won...wtf, what did he won actually about GTs in the last 2 years? At least, Nairo got 1 first and a podium, and Chris 1 first and some bruises...
Oh, sorry, I should have read the poll is about 2014...

Besides, SeriousSam is in no way a fan of Contador, so it's not like he's trying to anger Nibali fans. I think it was a joke. If not, it was just his way of calmly expressing that after yesterday, he believes Nibali would not have won the Tour with Froome and Contador in contention. Pathetic troll attempts are easily distinguished. Just look for lots of OMG, LOL, LMAO, and smiley faces, exclamation marks, etc

 

[Jagartrott]

This is actually a poll on who has the most fans.
Completely meaningless.

Btw: where is Quintana?

 

[Red Rick]

This is actually a poll on who has the most fans.
Completely meaningless.

Btw: where is Quintana?

This is the *****ing thread about who is the best between the two, not necessarily about the best in the world, though I do think they are

 

[Netserk]

Does anyone have guts to write 'I support a rider А, but I think a rider В could more likely have won the Tour'? Seemingly, no. Another thread derailed under the weight of battle of broken expectations and reality.

I support Tom Boonen, but I think Alberto Contador would've won the Tour if he hadn't crashed out.

 

[cineteq]

This is actually a poll on who has the most fans.
Completely meaningless.

We've called the admin's attention to close the thread to no avail.

Does anyone have guts to write 'I support a rider А, but I think a rider В could more likely have won the Tour'? Seemingly, no. Another thread derailed under the weight of battle of broken expectations and reality.

Unlikely to see something like that. Btw, what's your opinion on the question itself?

 

[Jagartrott]

I support Tom Boonen, but I think Alberto Contador would've won the Tour if he hadn't crashed out.

And I support Arsenal, and I think Nibali would've won the Tour.

 

[Netserk]

Parrulo is a Nibs fan, but he voted Contador.