2014: Contador vs Nibali, the official *****ing thread

[LaFlorecita]

It is equally rediculous to base ACs and Nibalis abilities to climb in the tour this year on a 2(?) km long climb, where AC sprinted and took 2 sec, but it is a point raised in pretty much every discussion on this topic. To find an answer is really hard and for all I know AC might have won this tour. Most of us Nibali supporters just find it hard to see what seems obvious to you, and that is that AC is far superior to Nibali in the mountains.

And no, comparing the time difference between AC/Nibbles and Valverde is not total bull****. It quite clearly debunks some peoples "AC would have taken 2 min on every mtf" rambling. Not much else though

Contador came back from a freaking injury. Come on dude. Of course he's not on Tour level, and he's still blowing Valverde out of the water on the multi-mountain stages (aka Tour style stages)

 

[LaFlorecita]

Anyone knows how to find the amount of cqranking points of the top 5 in the Vuelta and the Tour just before the race started?

Tour:
Nibali - 1533
Peraud - 653
Pinot - 626
Valverde - 2858
Van Garderen - 840
Total: 6510

Vuelta:
Contador - 1569
Froome - 897
Valverde - 3057
Rodriguez - 1571
Aru - 579
Total: 7673

From the CQ updates a week before the race

 

[icefire]

Tour:
Nibali - 1533
Peraud - 653
Pinot - 626
Valverde - 2858
Van Garderen - 840
Total: 6510

Vuelta:
Contador - 1569
Froome - 897
Valverde - 3057
Rodriguez - 1571
Aru - 579
Total: 7673

From the CQ updates a week before the race

Thanks. This gives an interesting perspective to the comparison.

 

[BlurryVII]

what seems obvious to you, and that is that AC is far superior to Nibali in the mountains.

And no, comparing the time difference between AC/Nibbles and Valverde is not total bull****. It quite clearly debunks some peoples "AC would have taken 2 min on every mtf" rambling. Not much else though

It is actually obvious, no need to be AC fan to see it.

As for Valverde, it is total bull****. Do you think Nibali could've won this Vuelta by 7 mins on AC and Froome?
Do you think Péraud and Pinot are better GT riders than Valverde?

By the way: Nibali on Planche des Belles Filles: 6.29 w/kg - 16 min 45

Contador on Farrapona: 6.41 w/kg - 17 min 45
Froome: 6.33 w/kg - 18 mins

Contador came back from injury, Nibali was in the form of his life.

 

[Jspear]

Ok it's official. AC is the best gt rider of 2014 (and of his era I might add.) The obstacles that he overcame to win this gt make it so much better than Nibbes win.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

It is actually obvious, no need to be AC fan to see it.

As for Valverde, it is total bull****. Do you think Nibali could've won this Vuelta by 7 mins on AC and Froome?
Do you think Péraud and Pinot are better GT riders than Valverde?

By the way: Nibali on Planche des Belles Filles: 6.29 w/kg - 16 min 45

Contador on Farrapona: 6.41 w/kg - 17 min 45
Froome: 6.33 w/kg - 18 mins

Contador came back from injury, Nibali was in the form of his life.

I think Pinot is equal/stronger climber than Valverde, as for Peraud, well god knows what he was doing this July.
No I don't think Nibali would have won thisVuelta with 7 min. I don't think the parcours in Spain would have made it possible for anyone to do that. What I am interested in is that on the 2 "proper" mountain stages in te Vuelta AC and Froome didn't put more time into Valverde than Nibbles in the tour.
Yes Froome and AC did push slightly higher wats while giving everything they got pretty much from the getgo,Nibbles were sleeping behind Scarponi half the climb, thought you were the champion of sound and logical arguments?

Contador had a 5 day rest period before starting to train again. He had worked on his shape since late 2013. Sure he didn't have the best prep for the Vuelta, but don't pretend that he came in with the physical apperance of a January Ullrich

 

[Jagartrott]

Eh? Thanks, I guess.

You were right, it is not possible to compare stage races - so this whole discussion is pretty much useless.
Contador did really well in the Vuelta, Nibali did really well in the Tour. Those are the facts. The rest is speculation, with a lot of personal feelings in the mix.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Ok it's official. AC is the best gt rider of 2014 (and of his era I might add.) The obstacles that he overcame to win this gt make it so much better than Nibbes win.

Yes indeed

 

[Netserk]

I think Pinot is equal/stronger climber than Valverde, as for Peraud, well god knows what he was doing this July.
No I don't think Nibali would have won thisVuelta with 7 min. I don't think the parcours in Spain would have made it possible for anyone to do that. What I am interested in is that on the 2 "proper" mountain stages in te Vuelta AC and Froome didn't put more time into Valverde than Nibbles in the tour.
Yes Froome and AC did push slightly higher wats while giving everything they got pretty much from the getgo,Nibbles were sleeping behind Scarponi half the climb, thought you were the champion of sound and logical arguments?

Contador had a 5 day rest period before starting to train again. He had worked on his shape since late 2013. Sure he didn't have the best prep for the Vuelta, but don't pretend that he came in with the physical apperance of a January Ullrich

Did Nibali abandon the Giro with a broken leg?

Or do you think Contador reached his max in the Vuelta?

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Did Nibali abandon the Giro with a broken leg?

Or do you think Contador reached his max in the Vuelta?

I think AC in this Vuelta was the best AC we have seen in a gt since 2011.
I think he would have been better in the tour than what we saw here. Does that mean that he would have been good enoug to beat and take back 2,5 minutes on a Nibali that had to actually dig deep up the mountains? I don't think he would have, if you do, fine.

No he did not come into the tour with a broken leg. He had something much worse, an infant screaming and pooping in his house every time he set a foot inside the door.

 

[Miburo]

Piti said he's better in the vuelta than in the tour, history proved he usually is. But let's not mention that right nibalifanboys?

And what about this? Damn gears

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Piti said he's better in the vuelta than in the tour, history proved he usually is. But let's not mention that right nibalifanboys?

And what about this? Damn gears

ofc he would say that. He got a better placing in the gc didn't he, and to be beaten by freakings Peraud must be so embarrasing that I'm suprised he hasn't said that he rode the whole tour with a broken leg yet

Though AC fanboys/girls would have learned by now to not trust interviews

I will agree with you that AC is more explosive up a short hill than Nibali, and I rate him higher in FW.

 

[Miburo]

ofchewouldsay that.He got a better placing in the gc didn't he, and to be beaten by freakings Peraud must be so embarrasing that I'm suprised he hasn't said that he rode the whole tour with a broken leg yet

Though AC fanboys/girls would have learned by now to not trust interviews

Don't put me into that on, i still don't know why some thought Contador really was gonna go for a stage win

You ignored the fact though that piti is always awesome in la vuelta.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Don't put me into that on, i still don't know why some thought Contador really was gonna go for a stage win

You ignored the fact though that piti is always awesome in la vuelta.

And you continue to ignore that fact that a short explosive climb says nothing about their abilities up Hautacam

 

[Miburo]

And you continue to ignore that fact that a short explosive climb says nothing about their abilities up Hautacam

You're right, the difference would have been way bigger then, my bad.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

You're right, the difference would have been way bigger then, my bad.

I remember how Gilbert won every single mtf in 2011, you know, after FW

 

[LaFlorecita]

I think AC in this Vuelta was the best AC we have seen in a gt since 2011.
I think he would have been better in the tour than what we saw here. Does that mean that he would have been good enoug to beat and take back 2,5 minutes on a Nibali that had to actually dig deep up the mountains? I don't think he would have, if you do, fine.

No he did not come into the tour with a broken leg. He had something much worse, an infant screaming and pooping in his house every time he set a foot inside the door.

Eh nope.



he was better way better at the tour

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Eh nope.



he was better way better at the tour

fine
in a gt that he climbed a mountain in

 

[escheator]

I'd say equal with respect to accomplishments. With what AC showed, I'd put his chances of pulling back 2,5 mins in the mountains to very slim, it's quite a sizable gap taking into account Nibali's form.

Anyway, for hundred of years GC ruled who's the best, but the last few years there are so many "fan awards", "fan bonus points", etc. that people use to try to pull arguments of who's the best in favour of their favourite rider, but in the end only the GC standings count and on neither final one are both VN and AC, while in TdF at the moment both were in the race, things looked grim for AC.

 

[Jspear]

I'd say equal with respect to accomplishments. With what AC showed, I'd put his chances of pulling back 2,5 mins in the mountains to very slim, it's quite a sizable gap taking into account Nibali's form.

Anyway, for hundred of years GC ruled who's the best, but the last few years there are so many "fan awards", "fan bonus points", etc. that people use to try to pull arguments of who's the best in favour of their favourite rider, but in the end only the GC standings count and on neither final one are both VN and AC, while in TdF at the moment both were in the race, things looked grim for AC.

You seem to be giving Nibali some "fan awards" and fan bonus points."
Just remember that what AC showed in the Vuelta was less than what he would have shown in the Tour - Proven best by his performance in the Dauphine. You can't take his Vuelta form and compare that with his Tour form.

 

[LaFlorecita]

fine
in a gt that he climbed a mountain in

Not very hard competition then, considering he only rode 3 GTs since the 2011 Giro, and in the first he crashed 1000 times and got screwed over on the very first stage and just finished the hardest Giro in the last couple decades.
In the second he just returned from 6 months without racing.
In the third he was the ****tiest he's been since 2005.

So yeah.

 

[MBotero]

After last Vuelta mountain stage,i'm convinced that this Contador,Vuelta version,would have never beat Nibali in Le Tour,the difference is huge.Contador,TDF version was great ,but still i don't think he could have won it,Nibali was out of this world this year.

 

[LaFlorecita]

After last Vuelta mountain stage,i'm convinced that this Contador,Vuelta version,would have never beat Nibali in Le Tour,the difference is huge.Contador,TDF version was great ,but still i don't think he could have won it,Nibali was out of this world this year.

Contador pre TDF crash >>> Contador post TDF crash

 

[MBotero]

Contador pre TDF crash >>> Contador post TDF crash

Well TDF version,doesn't finished the race so that's why i added the weaker Vuelta version.

 

[escheator]

You seem to be giving Nibali some "fan awards" and fan bonus points."
Just remember that what AC showed in the Vuelta was less than what he would have shown in the Tour - Proven best by his performance in the Dauphine. You can't take his Vuelta form and compare that with his Tour form.

No, it's just the benefit of hindsight after seeing VN's performance in the mountainous part of TdF, you must wonder by what margin would've AC have to be better to pull back such advantage and how humanly feasible such performance is to occur, even taking into account shown by AC during the year? What odds would you give to AC to overcome VN's time advantage in the TdF if he didn't crash? You sound like it's a sure thing and piece of cake...

I'm not talking about "fan discounts" because I'm fan only of entertaining and gutsy riding, I'm talking about time. I would've been delighted if AC could nullify VN's advantage at some point during TdF because in my eyes he would've pulled quite an improbable performance and I like to be surprised.