2014 Spring Classics CQ game

[Armchair cyclist]

Last year, after much discussion, we went for a budget of 3000 points (end of year score as cost), a squad of 12 riders and a schedule of 19 races (some of which were cancelled due to the weather). Not all exactly classics, but WT and HC one dayers, plus a few of the more popular 1.1 races.


Omloop Het Nieuwsblad - 1.HC
Kuurne-Brussel-Kuurne - 1.1
Clasica de Almeria - 1.HC
GP di Lugano - 1.1
Strade Bianche - 1.1
Giro del Lazio - 1.1
Milano - Sanremo - 1.WT1
Dwars door Vlaanderen - 1.HC
E3 Harelbeke - 1.WT2
Gent - Wevelgem - 1.WT2
GP Miguel Indurain - 1.1
Ronde van Vlaanderen - 1.WT1
Scheldeprijs - 1.HC
Paris - Roubaix - 1.WT1
Klasika Primavera - 1.1
Brabantse Pijl - 1.HC
Amstel Gold Race - 1.WT2
La Flèche Wallonne - 1.WT2
Liège - Bastogne - Liège - 1.WT1

Same again?

Edit
After some discussion (or at least the opportunity for it), final details are:
12 Riders
3000 points budget: points as at 31 December, with same rules for doping as main game.
Races: as above plus Trophe Bro Leon, Vuelta Ciclista a Murcia and G.P. Camaiore
Closing date: 28 February, 23:59 GMT

Teams in so far (5th Feb):
Dazed and Confused
Just Some Guy
Rote Laterne

 

[asdfgh101]

More or less; i'll try to investigate with regards to which races can be cut and which could be added.

 

[the asian]

Yr. Keep it the same.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I would add Tro-Bro Léon if the marginal races in Italy, Spain and Switzerland are on the list. Race offers excellent coverage including live broadcast.

Team submitted.

 

[mutschi]

Have you ever considered that keeping the points low e.g. 3000 actually makes the game much more a lottery than making them high e.g. 9000? We have four really big names for the classics now: Cancellara, Boonen, Gilbert and Sagan. With 3000 points you can only afford 2 of them (usually only one but Boonen points are low). In the past years, of the three big names usually one got injured. That's the end for half of the players of the the game.
I think the game would be much more interesting and closer if every player can buy the big names and they neutralize each other. This game is about cycling knowledge, not luck. The players who choose the best riders outside the three or four big stars - they should be the winners, not those who are lucky enough to get Boonen in the year when Cancellara crashes out and vice verse. Think about it. I think it would be worth a try.
It would be a much closer competition with many more players involved - right to the end.

 

[search]

no, the opposite is the case, you don't necessarily need any of the big names to win this game, so the way it is it is very much about cycling knowledge

 

[Afrank]

9000 is way to many points, every team will look almost identical as we'll all have all the main riders that are going to be making up the top 10's of races.

It worked good last year with 3000, just enough to make a good team while keeping it a challenge. I say stick with doing it the same as last year.

 

[mutschi]

no, the opposite is the case, you don't necessarily need any of the big names to win this game, so the way it is it is very much about cycling knowledge

Maybe you need to look back to last years competitions - all the winners (and top ten contenders) had either Cancellara or Boonen or Gilbert. There is no way to win without them. This is not a matter of opinion - it is a matter of fact. And the reverse was true too - if you had the wrong guy (the one who got injured) your game was over and boring. And that was true for at least half of the players. Tell me - who will you take this year out of Cancellara, Sagan and Gilbert? (Everyone will have Boonen) Whover you take - if he gets injured your game will be over before it begins.

Another waste of time is including the little classics races. They simply don't deliver enough points to make any difference to the game. I did the stats last year. There is no points choosing riders for 2.1 races or even HC as the performers will only get a fraction of the points of the WT races and it makes almost no difference at all. On the other hand - it doesn't harm the competition either and makes it more entertaining.

Whatever happens I will be part of it and many thanks to the guys who put that up for us. Chapeau.

 

[mutschi]

9000 was just an example. We need enough points to all buy the four main favorites (Canc, Boonen, Gilbert, Sagan). After that, the points should be tight to choose the rest of the team. That will favour the expert players and takes out the luck element. I am not saying I am an expert player - quiet the opposite (never made the top 10). But I always got the injured stars in the lottery and the game was pretty boring after that.

9000 is way to many points, every team will look almost identical as we'll all have all the main riders that are going to be making up the top 10's of races.

It worked good last year with 3000, just enough to make a good team while keeping it a challenge. I say stick with doing it the same as last year.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

9000 was just an example. We need enough points to all buy the four main favorites (Canc, Boonen, Gilbert, Sagan). After that, the points should be tight to choose the rest of the team. That will favour the expert players and takes out the luck element. I am not saying I am an expert player - quiet the opposite (never made the top 10). But I always got the injured stars in the lottery and the game was pretty boring after that.

I don't get that argument. If we all buy the four "big ones", we essentially just have 8 man teams instead of 12 man teams, making injuries even more decisive.

 

[search]

9000 was just an example. We need enough points to all buy the four main favorites

if you consider Gilbert to be a "main favorite", we'd also need to include Purito, Valverde, Costa, Moreno, Dan Martin, Betancur...

are that 12 guys already or is there still one rider everyone can choose himself? sounds fun...

Edit: if you don't want to cope with the risk of your main rider crashing out just don't take any overly pricy riders. It's all about value, a team with Cancellara or Sagan scoring 1000 points (+ some minor point scorers) can still easily be beaten by a team of 12 riders scoring 200 points each

 

[mc_mountain]

Maybe you need to look back to last years competitions - all the winners (and top ten contenders) had either Cancellara or Boonen or Gilbert. There is no way to win without them. This is not a matter of opinion - it is a matter of fact. And the reverse was true too - if you had the wrong guy (the one who got injured) your game was over and boring. And that was true for at least half of the players. Tell me - who will you take this year out of Cancellara, Sagan and Gilbert? (Everyone will have Boonen) Whover you take - if he gets injured your game will be over before it begins.

Another waste of time is including the little classics races. They simply don't deliver enough points to make any difference to the game. I did the stats last year. There is no points choosing riders for 2.1 races or even HC as the performers will only get a fraction of the points of the WT races and it makes almost no difference at all. On the other hand - it doesn't harm the competition either and makes it more entertaining.

Whatever happens I will be part of it and many thanks to the guys who put that up for us. Chapeau.

it strikes me as a little bit odd that you want every team to include all 4 of the most likely high point scorers - for me that would make it more boring, as those riders will have zero impact on the game. BTW I cant imagine many people took Boonen at 2200 points and if they did they werent very likely to challenge for the win. This game will last a relatively short period of time, to win you probably have to take a gamble and that might mean you're out of it pretty quickly but is that worse than being risk averse and ending up mid table?

last year I came second because I had Cancellara and a few other solid picks, this was a risky strategy but I was lucky and it paid off. but I did beat 10 other teams with him, so I must have made some other good picks too (ie shown some cycling knowledge)? Geraint too fast came 8th with neither Gilbert or Cancellera.

 

[mutschi]

Cool - seems like those who comment like it the old way and roll the dice a bit. Good luck everyone.

 

[karlboss]

Submissions in by when? score as at when? Lazio is now roma maxima, but other than that looks good. Tro bro Leon I'd leave out, the best riders will be at Amstel.

3000 points looks good, the teams look like mid level pro tour teams, and this allows for more variety in picks. If the level was lifted so that everyone could choose Gilbert, Sagan, Cancellara and Boonen then there are only 8 riders to separate the teams. At the moment Boonen is a given, that is all.

 

[asdfgh101]

Afer some research i would recommend adding Murcia and Camaiore.

http://www.procyclingstats.com/race.php?id=123861

http://www.procyclingstats.com/race/9012441-63rd-G.P.-Camaiore-2013

Thoughts?

 

[karlboss]

Afer some research i would recommend adding Murcia and Camaiore.

http://www.procyclingstats.com/race.php?id=123861

http://www.procyclingstats.com/race/9012441-63rd-G.P.-Camaiore-2013

Thoughts?

I like them, makes the hilly riders worth more.

 

[Armchair cyclist]

No strong support for any change to budget or squad size, so let's keep them as 12 men, 3000 points as at 31/12/13. Doping prices per main game.

Closing will be midnight GMT going into the day of the first race on the list (not got time before leaving for work to look that up, and might depend on vote below)

Although there was some suggestion of including Belgian cobbled 3-stage races, I think I'd suggest sticking with one day races only.

Three more 1.1 races have been proposed for inclusion:
Trophe Bro Leon
Vuelta Ciclista a Murcia
G.P. Camaiore

We'll take a vote on their inclusion from now until 11:59pm Tues 4th Feb. Vote in thread here or at VeloRooms (but only once please)

 

[NairoQ]

Trophe Bro Leon NO
Vuelta Ciclista a Murcia YES
G.P. Camaiore YES

 

[Dazed and Confused]

All three are OK for me for inclusion.

 

[ItalianGigolo]

All 3 for me too!

 

[asdfgh101]

Trophe Bro Leon NO
Vuelta Ciclista a Murcia YES
G.P. Camaiore YES

 

[Geraint Too Fast]

Yes to all three, especially Tro-Bro Leon.

 

[Afrank]

I'll say yes to all 3 proposed races. Because...

Trophe Bro Leon- Will make us look at including some more uncommon riders and not just the big household names.
Vuelta Ciclista a Murcia- will make us look at selecting the climbers more.
G.P. Camaiore- again, will look at the climbers more.

 

[search]

I agree, last year the hilly classics had basically no impact to the outcome of the game, so it's a good idea to add one or two more. TBL not so as it's very special, but it's a great race, so take it in

 

[karlboss]

Tro Bro Leon leans too much to the cobbles riders, which increases their already overinflated value. Less common riders...basically the ones who fill spots 3-12 anyway.