2015 Ardennes Classics: 50th Amstel Gold Race - 4.19 - 258km

[rainman]

Re:

Negative racing may happen more often now because of how fit and fast domestiques are getting. Perhaps in the past there was the star riders with the natural ability, but with the advent of modern training methods the pack has become closer together. The dom's still don't have that bit extra that makes a team leader, but they are all good enough not to get dropped during the run up.

Valid point but it seems to be more about negative team tactics. Nibali and Martin refusing to work together spoiled what would have made a brilliant final, also GVA sitting on Fuglsangs move.
I expect they are under team orders but it is a spoiler. The crowds hanging out all day on Cauberg may aswell have just showed up for the final ascent.

 

[The Hegelian]

Re: 2015 Ardennes Classics: 50th Amstel Gold Race - 4.19 - 2

Earlier in the thread (i.e. pre-race) we were speculating on whether Matthews could stay with big guns on the Cauberg. Most (including me) thought: pretty unlikely, but he might be close'ish. So worth noting what he did there. To stick with Gilbert was a pretty awesome effort. I see his ride as similar to Degonkolb's in PR last year (and I suppose Flanders as well): we knew that he had a cobbled monument in him after that.

Was great to see the rainbow jersey win.

Yes, I was glad to see Matthews do well. I think he lost in the sprint because he did follow Gilbert on the Cauberg....though you can't really blame Matthews for following that move; no doubt he thought that was the winning attack.

Independent of the result, what it says to me is that Matthews is developing an elite punch; we knew he could hang on pretty well on small climbs, thus winning races where the pure sprinters get dropped. But we didn't necessarily know that he could punch up a hill like the Cauberg ahead of 15 of the best puncheurs in the sport, and equal with the best of the generation. That's really quite an advance. An intriguing development.

 

[damian13ster]

Re: 2015 Ardennes Classics: 50th Amstel Gold Race - 4.19 - 2

So people are praising Kwiatkowski for doing a Gerrans,yet poor Gerrans is getting lambasted for this

Yeah, but Kwiatkowski can win differently, Gerrans can't.

That makes it only worse, doesn't it?

I think the winner of the race should not have his tactic criticized- ever.
You know why, because it worked, and a tactic of 200 other riders didn't.
Of course a win by Kwiatkowski wasn't the most impressive. Hell, I would say that he wasn't even in top 5 strongest riders in the race (Gilbert, Matthews, Valverde looked way stronger), yet he still did win.
Why? Because even despite his age he is one of the smartest riders in the peleton. If you followed his interviews from before the race- he already knew what's going to happen. He said that last year he made a mistake of jumping on Sanchez' wheel and then doing his best to hang on to Gilbert- essentialy wasting energy. This year he said before the race. He won't care about Gilbert or anyone, he will ride Cauberg in his own tempo to preserve energy, and that's exactly what happened. Hermans jumped, Paterski followed (was impressed by him, but he did the same mistake Kwiato did last season), then Gilbert went, Kwiatkowski rode within himself, Valverde went, Michal still was going his own pace. Then he pulled the Katiusha rider (was it Caruso? I am not sure) for a while but instead of chasing by himself slowed down and Caruso? did the 2nd part of catching up to the leaders, therefore saving Kwiatkowski's energy. We all know how that worked out in the end. He was the farthest in the sprint by far, even though he started from way back and I was scared that he got boxed in.

Now when it comes to FW..... he didn't look or feel good on last 3 climbs (again, interviews), so I am not getting my hopes up. His climbing seems bit worse than last year. Then again, he had enough strength left to sprint so who the hell knows?

And I agree, Matthews lost by following Gilbert. Had he ridden with Kwiatkowski or even Valverde, AGR would probably be his.

 

[hrotha]

Had Matthews stayed behind, Gilbert wouldn't have stopped and he would have won.

 

[Netserk]

Re:

Had Matthews stayed behind, Gilbert wouldn't have stopped and he would have won.

Yep. He dug deep to make sure that he at least would have a chance to win. With hindsight he would probably have been better of not taking a single turn after Cauberg, but if he, Gilbert and Valverde had stayed away it would of course have been the right thing to do.

 

[red_flanders]

Re: 2015 Ardennes Classics: 50th Amstel Gold Race - 4.19 - 2

So people are praising Kwiatkowski for doing a Gerrans,yet poor Gerrans is getting lambasted for this

Yeah, but Kwiatkowski can win differently, Gerrans can't.

That makes it only worse, doesn't it?

I think the winner of the race should not have his tactic criticized- ever.
You know why, because it worked, and a tactic of 200 other riders didn't.
Of course a win by Kwiatkowski wasn't the most impressive. Hell, I would say that he wasn't even in top 5 strongest riders in the race (Gilbert, Matthews, Valverde looked way stronger), yet he still did win.
Why? Because even despite his age he is one of the smartest riders in the peleton. If you followed his interviews from before the race- he already knew what's going to happen. He said that last year he made a mistake of jumping on Sanchez' wheel and then doing his best to hang on to Gilbert- essentialy wasting energy. This year he said before the race. He won't care about Gilbert or anyone, he will ride Cauberg in his own tempo to preserve energy, and that's exactly what happened. Hermans jumped, Paterski followed (was impressed by him, but he did the same mistake Kwiato did last season), then Gilbert went, Kwiatkowski rode within himself, Valverde went, Michal still was going his own pace. Then he pulled the Katiusha rider (was it Caruso? I am not sure) for a while but instead of chasing by himself slowed down and Caruso? did the 2nd part of catching up to the leaders, therefore saving Kwiatkowski's energy. We all know how that worked out in the end. He was the farthest in the sprint by far, even though he started from way back and I was scared that he got boxed in.

Now when it comes to FW..... he didn't look or feel good on last 3 climbs (again, interviews), so I am not getting my hopes up. His climbing seems bit worse than last year. Then again, he had enough strength left to sprint so who the hell knows?

And I agree, Matthews lost by following Gilbert. Had he ridden with Kwiatkowski or even Valverde, AGR would probably be his.

Good post, on-point analysis.

 

[Mr.White]

Re:

Had Matthews stayed behind, Gilbert wouldn't have stopped and he would have won.

And when did Gilbert stopped? Didn't saw that..

 

[Miburo]

Re:

Had Matthews stayed behind, Gilbert wouldn't have stopped and he would have won.

Nope, gilbert said there was headwind and it was gonna be really hard to stay ahead even if matttews wasn't there.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

headwind lol

i was on the cauberg, there was NO wind actually.

Gilbert is talking bs / making up excuses

 

[jens_attacks]

you don't ride 1:24 on cauberg with headwind lol

of course phil would have won again imo if he could have dropped matthews
i doubt that valverde and matthews would have get along
all history now, congrats to kiwi

 

[SeriousSam]

So someone else's strength and braveness, Bling's, allowed wheelsucker Kwiat to win who didn't even bridge to the front but wheelsucked poor Caruso.

What a pity if the strong don't win. Hope this is the last race Simon Kwiatkowski wins in a long time.

 

[Flamin]

So "de wind was niet meteen in mijn voordeel" means "there was a headwind" now?

And if anyone never makes excuses, it's Phil of course. He's ALWAYS honest and that's why I like him.

 

[greenedge]

Re:

Rather glad Matthews didn't win there. If he did they'd probably have moved the finish back to the top of the climb, like after Zabel when they still finished in Maastricht.

Well he would have got second, so it still would have been a great performance

 

[Captain Serious]

Re:

Hilarious squabbling between an IAM rider and a Giant one at the back

ha ha. Amateur video caught how it happened. The Giant guy wasn't watching where he was going and ploughed into the stationary riders. Given that, I wonder why he had the cheek to get shitty with the IAM dude.
About 20 seconds in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca6ARVNuLHM

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Curvers said after the race it was his fault and that Reyes (IAM) had every right to be angry with him.