2015 Ardennes Classics: 50th Amstel Gold Race - 4.19 - 258km

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Go check out this year's Strade Bianche and Catalunya stage 5. You call Valverde wheelsucker, but who wheelsucked the most today? Don't know? I'll tell you, the winner

Almost everyone wheelsucks most of the time. But there are those who does it almost every time. Gerrans is probably the worst of the top riders today. And Valverde is also among the worst. I don't like the spaniard. Deal with it.

Marcel Kittel? Almost helpless without a train to protect him. Can't even win a stage in Qatar when the sandy wind is blowing. He doens't like actual racing, only high-speed sprinting.

And I honestly don't see how Valverde is a less brave rider than Kwaitkowski.

I tend to ignore pure sprinters like Kittel. Most of the races he and his type riders wins, are not interesting at all. The only time I watch completely flat stages is probably in the Tour and some times in the Giro.

The big one day classics, on the other hand, is someting completely different. Here I want to see action before the last 2 km. I don't want to see large groups of 30-40-50 riders in the finale of the cobblestone and Ardennes classics. And Valverde has shown for many years that he does little or nothing to create entartaining races in the classics.

As for Kwiatkowski, I think last years Strade Bianchi and World Champ showed that he can do something else than wheelsuck to victory. We'll see in the coming years if he can repeat that type of wins, or if he wins like he did today. If he does the latter, he will not be on my list of favorites in the future.

This is one eyed rubbish.

What is the difference between Kwiatkowski at the WC or Valverde at San Sebastian? Their wins were pretty similar in style.

Or Valverde at Strade Bianche this year, Roma Maxima last year, Mallorca this year. Not to mention the GT stage that he won. Also Valverde doesn't send team mates into the break to disrupt and destroy the race.

They are both two of the most attacking all round riders that there are, that regularly win races. I don't see how you can hate one so much more than the other.

 

[LPP68!]

Re: 2015 Ardennes Classics: 50th Amstel Gold Race - 4.19 - 2

So people are praising Kwiatkowski for doing a Gerrans,yet poor Gerrans is getting lambasted for this

Yeah, but Kwiatkowski can win differently, Gerrans can't.

That makes it only worse, doesn't it?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Incredible race, really enjoyed the last 5 metres.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

at first i was dissappointed that there is more tv screen at the cauberg because they moved the finish further away.

but in hindsight i saw all the action there was in the race..

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

Go check out this year's Strade Bianche and Catalunya stage 5. You call Valverde wheelsucker, but who wheelsucked the most today? Don't know? I'll tell you, the winner

Almost everyone wheelsucks most of the time. But there are those who does it almost every time. Gerrans is probably the worst of the top riders today. And Valverde is also among the worst. I don't like the spaniard. Deal with it.

Well I don't like Kwiatkowski either, but I'm not saying it's awful race because he won it!

 

[Flamin]

I like Phil, though I'm really glad BMC got nothing. Obviously any team should be fully committed when you have mister Cauberg, but what could they lose if Greg rode with Fuglsang? Ffs, the chances of Greg beating Fuglsang were way higher than Gilbert beating Valverde etc and if anyone deserves a big win, it's Greg. Can't believe they denied him that chance, no matter how small the odds were that move would stick.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Had Matthews or Gilbert won, they would certainly deserve it and also Valverde(bridging upto the front 2 was impressive) Kwiatkowski was pulled by other riders to the front group and got lucky

 

[OlavEH]

Re: Re:

Go check out this year's Strade Bianche and Catalunya stage 5. You call Valverde wheelsucker, but who wheelsucked the most today? Don't know? I'll tell you, the winner

Almost everyone wheelsucks most of the time. But there are those who does it almost every time. Gerrans is probably the worst of the top riders today. And Valverde is also among the worst. I don't like the spaniard. Deal with it.

Well I don't like Kwiatkowski either, but I'm not saying it's awful race because he won it!

It was an awful race even though Kwiatkowski won. Except for a Nibali that probably wasn't in his best form, absolutely none of the best hilly riders tried anything at all until the last 2 km. That was boring.

 

[Asero831]

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

Putting riders in the break so they can refuse to pull cause they have a leader behind is the single thing I remember the most about the Ardennes the last few years.

Yep. So many teams are trying to kill the race so they can have their sprint, while most teams don't have more chance going for the sprint.

Next sunday we will have another day of pointless attacks by people that are only there to kill the break.

 

[SeriousSam]

Infiltrating and subverting the break when you want your strong leader to win from the peloton is a great and commendable strategy,

 

[hrotha]

Re:

Infiltrating and subverting the break when you want your strong leader to win from the peloton is a great and commendable strategy,

It can be, when your leader behind is clearly a more realistic option than your guy in the break.

Often, like today for BMC, that isn't the case.

Even so, it's perfectly fine as spectators to dislike that kind of racing, even if it works (like today for Etixx). Catenaccio is almost universally condemned in football too.

 

[jmdirt]

When riders post up before the line I always hope that they get nipped by the guy behind them.

RE: wheel sucking: there is a "clinic" argument for riders not having the "ability" to attack long range and/or over and over like in the recent past. I can't say too much more without moving to the clinic section.

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

Infiltrating and subverting the break when you want your strong leader to win from the peloton is a great and commendable strategy,

It's a great strategy that's rewarded often. Unfortunately racing becomes really dull this way.

The classics are/were races where the top riders showed who was the strongest. Those days seem to be over, only on the cobbles we still sometimes get over 50km of action.

Tbh there are loooots of riders that should attack before the final climb, else they will never ever win. Still they ride passive and wait wait wait. This behaviour is killing.

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

When riders post up before the line I always hope that they get nipped by the guy behind them.

RE: wheel sucking: there is a "clinic" argument for riders not having the "ability" to attack long range and/or over and over like in the recent past. I can't say too much more without moving to the clinic section.

Tbh the passive racing started in the Epo era so it's a crap argument.

 

[IndianCyclist]

wrong tactics by BMC. They left it too late to tire out the peloton

 

[Jagartrott]

Re:

Is GVA the most tactically inept rider of all time? His wheelsucking of Fuglsang was an exact replica of the 2nd stage of the 2014 TdF stage 2 in Sheffield, where he eventually became 2nd (@34:30 into the clip):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXiUbNa1U4w

He wasn't allowed to collaborate.
Moronic team orders, if you ask me.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Re: Re:

Marcel Kittel? Almost helpless without a train to protect him. Can't even win a stage in Qatar when the sandy wind is blowing. He doens't like actual racing, only high-speed sprinting.

Because he had a serious infection and has been in and out of the hospital since. Hasn't raced since and won't anytime soon.

What happened last time he raced in the windy desert in good health? Oh right, he won 3 out of 3 road stages.

 

[MatParker117]

Re: Re:

Marcel Kittel? Almost helpless without a train to protect him. Can't even win a stage in Qatar when the sandy wind is blowing. He doens't like actual racing, only high-speed sprinting.

Because he had a serious infection and has been in and out of the hospital since. Hasn't raced since and won't anytime soon.

What happened last time he raced in the windy desert in good health? Oh right, he won 3 out of 3 road stages.

Down to Yorkshire isn't he?

 

[Pippo_San]

Re:

While the race was totally ***, and as much as you can dislike Quickstep way of racing, there's no denying it's really really nice to see the world champ take important wins.
Good for the movement.

 

[observer]

Negative racing may happen more often now because of how fit and fast domestiques are getting. Perhaps in the past there was the star riders with the natural ability, but with the advent of modern training methods the pack has become closer together. The dom's still don't have that bit extra that makes a team leader, but they are all good enough not to get dropped during the run up.

 

[The Hegelian]

Re: 2015 Ardennes Classics: 50th Amstel Gold Race - 4.19 - 2

Earlier in the thread (i.e. pre-race) we were speculating on whether Matthews could stay with big guns on the Cauberg. Most (including me) thought: pretty unlikely, but he might be close'ish. So worth noting what he did there. To stick with Gilbert was a pretty awesome effort. I see his ride as similar to Degonkolb's in PR last year (and I suppose Flanders as well): we knew that he had a cobbled monument in him after that.

Was great to see the rainbow jersey win.

 

[Asero831]

Well played for Astana, they did the best on what they have. Imagine if Westra were in the mix it would have made a difference. De Vreese went early to set up Nibali and Rose. Then Fuglsang seems to be their last option.

As for Orica, not really sure if Weening could be a factor here, they should have anticipated that MM needs a good leadout and should have sent a teammate in the final stretch. What is Albasini doing? Clarke did a great job for them then Impey and Weening were there to set up MM for the final climb. It was Albasini's role to stay with the favorites to support MM.

BMC did a great job of controlling the race. They still have four men in the final climb despite exterting too much effort keeping the break in check.But they simply do not know what to do in the final stretch, why would you put all your hopes on Phil Gilbert when you have GVA. Hermans is turning out to be a force.

Movistar looks alarming, for three straight year it seems that they are doing all the work early and no one is ther to set-up Valverde. They was boxed out by Orica going into Cauberg. Valverde needs a good domestique that will be there from him. No way they can control Astana, Katusha and Sky at LBL.

What's going on with Katusha, maybe they are still saving their energy for FW and LBL?

Sky and Lotto perhaps did not even bother to plan out a strategy.

Felline, Domoulin, Valgen still have work to do if they want to be a high player and earn a good contact.

Disappointments were Arredondo and Barguil

 

[Jspear]

Re: 2015 Ardennes Classics: 50th Amstel Gold Race - 4.19 - 2

Earlier in the thread (i.e. pre-race) we were speculating on whether Matthews could stay with big guns on the Cauberg. Most (including me) thought: pretty unlikely, but he might be close'ish. So worth noting what he did there. To stick with Gilbert was a pretty awesome effort. I see his ride as similar to Degonkolb's in PR last year (and I suppose Flanders as well): we knew that he had a cobbled monument in him after that.

Was great to see the rainbow jersey win.

Yes, I was glad to see Matthews do well. I think he lost in the sprint because he did follow Gilbert on the Cauberg....though you can't really blame Matthews for following that move; no doubt he thought that was the winning attack.

 

[frontalvision]

Great finish