2015 Ardennes Classics: 50th Amstel Gold Race - 4.19 - 258km

[DBotero]

Re: 2015 Ardennes Classics: 50th Amstel Gold Race - 4.19 - 2

So people are praising Kwiatkowski for doing a Gerrans,yet poor Gerrans is getting lambasted for this

 

[SafeBet]

Putting riders in the break so they can refuse to pull cause they have a leader behind is the single thing I remember the most about the Ardennes the last few years.

 

[Netserk]

Re: 2015 Ardennes Classics: 50th Amstel Gold Race - 4.19 - 2

So people are praising Kwiatkowski for doing a Gerrans,yet poor Gerrans is getting lambasted for this

Who?

 

[thequestionmark]

Re: 2015 Ardennes Classics: 50th Amstel Gold Race - 4.19 - 2

So people are praising Kwiatkowski for doing a Gerrans,yet poor Gerrans is getting lambasted for this

Yeah, but Kwiatkowski can win differently, Gerrans can't.

 

[OlavEH]

Re: Re:

Thank **** god it was Kwia and not Valverde or Matthews! The only good thing about this race. What a freakin borefest. They really need to do somehthing about the course next year. Was it 50-60 men that hit Cauberg the last time?

Why is that the only good thing? Because you like him? And why not Valverde and Matthews, you think Kwiatkowski deserved this more or what?

Well, I really don't like Valverde. So I'm glad that he didn't win. And I'm not to excited about Matthews either. Too much of a spinter type for my liking. So yes, I like Kwia much better than those two.

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

I'm sure the riders will take the stinging criticism from the cyclingnews forum to heart and will in the future lower their chances to do well in races with suicidal solo attacks.

It seems like Nibali already had.

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

I'm sure the riders will take the stinging criticism from the cyclingnews forum to heart and will in the future lower their chances to do well in races with suicidal solo attacks.

It seems like Nibali already had.

How did he lower his chance to do well in the race?

 

[OlavEH]

Re: Re:

Thank **** god it was Kwia and not Valverde or Matthews! The only good thing about this race. What a freakin borefest. They really need to do somehthing about the course next year. Was it 50-60 men that hit Cauberg the last time?

Why is that the only good thing? Because you like him? And why not Valverde and Matthews, you think Kwiatkowski deserved this more or what?

Spot on! Kwiatkowski did nothing the entire race. He's no better than Valverde or Matthews.

This race maybe. But Valverde has wheelsucked himself to shitload of big wins for over a decade. That's why I never hope he wins.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Putting riders in the break so they can refuse to pull cause they have a leader behind is the single thing I remember the most about the Ardennes the last few years.

Indeed, it's ridiculous to have really strong riders like Martin or Van Avermaet in a break but not even trying to win. Such negative racing.

 

[Asero831]

clearly GVA and Gilbert did not know what to do in the final kilometer.
As for MM, he needs to go back into the drawing board. He could not even beat Valverde in a sprint.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

clearly GVA and Gilbert did not know what to do in the final kilometer.
As for MM, he needs to go back into the drawing board. He could not even beat Valverde in a sprint.

Bit harsh on Matthews. He had clearly given everything to hang on to Gilbert on the Cauberg; then perhaps made an error in doing more work to try to stay clear over the top.

Also, Valverde is one of the best sprinters in the world at the end of a hard, hilly race. No shame in finishing behind him.

 

[hrotha]

Re:

I'm sure the riders will take the stinging criticism from the cyclingnews forum to heart and will in the future lower their chances to do well in races with suicidal solo attacks.

Chances of what? What's "doing well"? See, that's exactly what people are ultimately criticizing: the unwillingness to sacrifice an ultimately meaningless* top 10 placing for a chance to win. Who had a realistic chance of winning the way they raced today? Gilbert, Matthews, Valverde, Kwiatkowski and a few others. Where was everybody else? Why was someone like Wellens basically saying the Cauberg is all that matters?

The tragedy is all the riders and DS's who don't realize it would be in their best interest to make the race harder and less predictable.

*Yes, meaningless. A top 10 is nice enough but no one should race for something like that a priori. The UCI needs to make sure nothing but winning is profitable, points-wise.

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

I'm sure the riders will take the stinging criticism from the cyclingnews forum to heart and will in the future lower their chances to do well in races with suicidal solo attacks.

It seems like Nibali already had.

If his teammate hadn't crashed out maybe Nibali would have had more to say about the outcome. He also had a rider in the front group, but he was finished before Nibs got there. Alas no one would work with him and he was left without teammates so it was suicidal....

 

[Velolover2]

Re: Re:

Thank **** god it was Kwia and not Valverde or Matthews! The only good thing about this race. What a freakin borefest. They really need to do somehthing about the course next year. Was it 50-60 men that hit Cauberg the last time?

Why is that the only good thing? Because you like him? And why not Valverde and Matthews, you think Kwiatkowski deserved this more or what?

Spot on! Kwiatkowski did nothing the entire race. He's no better than Valverde or Matthews.

This race maybe. But Valverde has wheelsucked himself to shitload of big wins for over a decade. That's why I never hope he wins.

Your hatred is irrational. And you think that will be any different with Kwaitkowski? I can already mention at least a handful of wins where he has wheelsucked himself to victory.

And Valverde can win races without following wheels. Check out his victory in the Vuelta last year. He pulled the peloton for Quintana in the last half of the climb and still won.

 

[Tank Engine]

Re: 2015 Ardennes Classics: 50th Amstel Gold Race - 4.19 - 2

So Matthews did step up. He did what he needed on the Cauberg, but couldn't finish it off in the sprint. It looked like it was going to get interesting after the Nibali attack, but with Keldermercx going off the road, the Caruso crash and Martin playing policeman, the break was doomed.

It's ironic that Phil couldn't finish it off after BMC throttling the final breaks. OK, it was a bit of a Gerrans style win, but as long as Kwiatek is agressive from time to time, I'll take that

 

[Red Rick]

Adding those 2km after the Cauberg has actually made the race worse. Now riders who know they can't finish first on it can still wait and hope everything comes back at the very last moment

 

[OlavEH]

Re: Re:

Your hatred is irrational. And you think that will be any different with Kwaitkowski? I can already mention at least a handful of wins where he has wheelsucked himself to victory.

And Valverde can win races without following wheels. Check out his victory in the Vuelta last year. He pulled the peloton for Quintana in the last half of the climb and still won.

Kwiatkowski soloed to a World Championship win. He also had a great win in last years Strade Bianchi. I've rarely or never seen Valverde do something similar in one day races.

I agree that Valverde can be more aggressive, but mostly in GTs and especially the Vuelta. Almost never in the bigger one day races.

 

[Red Rick]

This race would be so much better if they finished they

1. Finished in Valkenburg before Cauberg but after Kruisberg-IJserbosweg-Fromberg-Keutenberg
2. Use 6 man teams
3. Get rid of Gilbert

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Re: Re:

I'm sure the riders will take the stinging criticism from the cyclingnews forum to heart and will in the future lower their chances to do well in races with suicidal solo attacks.

*Yes, meaningless. A top 10 is nice enough but no one should race for something like that a priori. The UCI needs to make sure nothing but winning is profitable, points-wise.

That's just silly. There is no good that comes from rewarding only winning. No handouts, sure, but ignoring the intermediary steps that a developing rider goes through is to undermine the growth of athletes. When riders can choose to give up but can't choose to be faster, implementing an all-or-nothing attitude will result in nothing more and more.

 

[Red Rick]

May I ask what all the Dutch "I'll go for top 10" prodigies managed today?

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

I'm sure the riders will take the stinging criticism from the cyclingnews forum to heart and will in the future lower their chances to do well in races with suicidal solo attacks.

*Yes, meaningless. A top 10 is nice enough but no one should race for something like that a priori. The UCI needs to make sure nothing but winning is profitable, points-wise.

That's just silly. There is no good that comes from rewarding only winning. No handouts, sure, but ignoring the intermediary steps that a developing rider goes through is to undermine the growth of athletes. When riders can choose to give up but can't choose to be faster, implementing an all-or-nothing attitude will result in nothing more and more.

It's not about ignoring it. A rider who finishes 3rd, 7th, 18th or 109th after doing everything he could will always be commended and recognized. It's just his worth won't be necessarily given as an officially-stamped WT score.

Incidentally, I believe that would be for the benefit of the riders. No more domestiques who get overlooked and dumped when a team needs points because reasons.

 

[Bushman]

To those comparing Gerrans to Kwiatkowski:

Yes, Kwiat didn't do much in the race, but which of the favourites did more? Gilbert and arguably Matthews, but thats it.

Also go watch the WC or Dwaars Door Vlaanderen to see Kwiat riding aggresively.

 

[Velolover2]

Re: Re:

Your hatred is irrational. And you think that will be any different with Kwaitkowski? I can already mention at least a handful of wins where he has wheelsucked himself to victory.

And Valverde can win races without following wheels. Check out his victory in the Vuelta last year. He pulled the peloton for Quintana in the last half of the climb and still won.

Kwiatkowski soloed to a World Championship win. He also had a great win in last years Strade Bianchi. I've rarely or never seen Valverde do something similar in one day races.

I agree that Valverde can be more aggressive, but mostly in GTs and especially the Vuelta. Almost never in the bigger one day races.

I agree with you that he can be quite conservative in big classics. But in last year's Liege and this year's Strade Bianchi he did some chasing and took some pulls. But yeah, he is mostly very aggressive in smaller stage races such as Roma Maxima, GP Miguel Indurain, Tramuntana, etc.

Based on that, he doesn't deserve to be called a wheelsucker when at least 100 riders are worse. Kittel will always be the biggest wheelsucker in the peloton.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

Your hatred is irrational. And you think that will be any different with Kwaitkowski? I can already mention at least a handful of wins where he has wheelsucked himself to victory.

And Valverde can win races without following wheels. Check out his victory in the Vuelta last year. He pulled the peloton for Quintana in the last half of the climb and still won.

Kwiatkowski soloed to a World Championship win. He also had a great win in last years Strade Bianchi. I've rarely or never seen Valverde do something similar in one day races.

I agree that Valverde can be more aggressive, but mostly in GTs and especially the Vuelta. Almost never in the bigger one day races.

Go check out this year's Strade Bianche and Catalunya stage 5. You call Valverde wheelsucker, but who wheelsucked the most today? Don't know? I'll tell you, the winner

 

[DFA123]

Re:

To those comparing Gerrans to Kwiatkowski:

Yes, Kwiat didn't do much in the race, but which of the favourites did more? Gilbert and arguably Matthews, but thats it.

Also go watch the WC or Dwaars Door Vlaanderen to see Kwiat riding aggresively.

I was disappointed to see Martin not working in the break - presumably on team orders. That kind of negative racing doesn't reflect well on any of the team imo.