2015 cleanest peloton ever

Page 2 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Bronstein said:
You've got to remember that the Daily Telegraph is not the Clinic. At the time when this was written, Gallagher and Telegraph newspapers would have had their pants sued off them if he had written anything accusatory in addition to the references he already made to the accusations of doping from the French. Yes, it turned out the French were right and probably all of you, but you don't make a living from writing for publication.
 
wrinklyvet said:
You've got to remember that the Daily Telegraph is not the Clinic. At the time when this was written, Gallagher and Telegraph newspapers would have had their pants sued off them if he had written anything accusatory in addition to the references he already made to the accusations of doping from the French. Yes, it turned out the French were right and probably all of you, but you don't make a living from writing for publication.
Armstrong was a day away from having titles stripped and they would have been sued? :confused:

Not likely!

At that point is was clear what was going to happen and what had taken place over those years. BG was trying to sway the readers to "still believe" even if Armstrong lost it all.

Hilarious looking back that some journalists just couldn't let it go and still today behave the same with Sky.
 
wrinklyvet said:
You've got to remember that the Daily Telegraph is not the Clinic. At the time when this was written, Gallagher and Telegraph newspapers would have had their pants sued off them if he had written anything accusatory in addition to the references he already made to the accusations of doping from the French. Yes, it turned out the French were right and probably all of you, but you don't make a living from writing for publication.
And they only had those two options???? Either full blown accusations that would get them sued, or writing that it's undeniable that he was clean.
 
thehog said:
Armstrong was a day away from having titles stripped and they would have been sued? :confused:

Not likely!

At that point is was clear what was going to happen and what had taken place over those years. BG was trying to sway the readers to "still believe" even if Armstrong lost it all.

Hilarious looking back that some journalists just couldn't let it go and still today behave the same with Sky.
A day away in 2009? I must be out of my depth here.
 
wrinklyvet said:
You've got to remember that the Daily Telegraph is not the Clinic. At the time when this was written, Gallagher and Telegraph newspapers would have had their pants sued off them if he had written anything accusatory in addition to the references he already made to the accusations of doping from the French. Yes, it turned out the French were right and probably all of you, but you don't make a living from writing for publication.
I didn't say that Gallagher had to write anything accusatory about Armstrong.

Why did Gallagher state that Armstrong was tested on a daily basis when in fact he almost certainly wasn't?
 
Netserk said:
And they only had those two options???? Either full blown accusations that would get them sued, or writing that it's undeniable that he was clean.
OK I accept he could have omitted or rephrased that paragraph if he had wanted. It looks bad now. It didn't look so bad to most people except diehard cynics then.
 
Bronstein said:
I didn't say that Gallagher had to write anything accusatory about Armstrong.

Why did Gallagher state that Armstrong was tested on a daily basis when in fact he almost certainly wasn't?
I don't know. Perhaps he believed it was so. The legend of being the "most tested" was in full currency then.
 
wrinklyvet said:
OK I accept he could have omitted or rephrased that paragraph if he had wanted. It looks bad now. It didn't look so bad to most people except diehard cynics then.
Really?

Only 'diehard cynics' didn't think it was undeniable that Armstrong was clean in 2009? Do you know how much evidence there was out at that point?
 
Netserk said:
Really?

Only 'diehard cynics' didn't think it was undeniable that Armstrong was clean in 2009? Do you know how much evidence there was out at that point?
You make me sound like an Armstrong sympathiser. I really only want to point out that the libel laws were protecting Armstrong, in the absence of a published adverse test or any other action that might succeed. In English law (and no doubt in the US where the settlements tend to be even higher) there are a number of defences against libel claims and I won't go into it. I doubt whether Gallagher and the Daily Telegraph would have wanted to do so either. As somebody who had mentioned the French allegations, I believe Gallagher had to protect himself. Those who say exactly what they want to on this site are generally not in that position.

Yes, I know that a number of other factors, rumours and, if you want to call it, evidence, were about, but none proved at the time.
 
wrinklyvet said:
I don't know. Perhaps he believed it was so. The legend of being the "most tested" was in full currency then.
'Tested on a daily basis' is a statement of fact. It has nothing to do with what Gallagher believed.

Gallagher made it up in order to defend Armstrong. He is nothing more than a fan with a typewriter.
 
wrinklyvet said:
You make me sound like an Armstrong sympathiser. I really only want to point out that the libel laws were protecting Armstrong, in the absence of a published adverse test or any other action that might succeed. In English law (and no doubt in the US where the settlements tend to be even higher) there are a number of defences against libel claims and I won't go into it. I doubt whether Gallagher and the Daily Telegraph would have wanted to do so either. As somebody who had mentioned the French allegations, I believe Gallagher had to protect himself. Those who say exactly what they want to on this site are generally not in that position.

Yes, I know that a number of other factors, rumours and, if you want to call it, evidence, were about, but none proved at the time.
Again, there's more than just two options. Libel laws can't be used as an excuse to go full genius in the opposite direction. If you can't publish accusations that doesn't mean you are forced to publish lies defending him.
 
Bronstein said:
'Tested on a daily basis' is a statement of fact. It has nothing to do with what Gallagher believed.

Gallagher made it up in order to defend Armstrong. He is nothing more than a fan with a typewriter.
It's a matter of opinion. It's a legitimate conclusion if you want to make it but there are others. Don't give him the benefit of any doubt though, will you? After all, it's not normal.

God, why am I defending Gallagher? - I don't know him. But I do hate all this jumping to conclusions and general hate for anyone who gives a slight opportunity for it.
 
Netserk said:
Again, there's more than just two options. Libel laws can't be used as an excuse to go full genius in the opposite direction. If you can't publish accusations that doesn't mean you are forced to publish lies defending him.
Noted. I am sure Mr Gallagher will make a mental note. Cheerio for now.
 
wrinklyvet said:
It's a matter of opinion. It's a legitimate conclusion if you want to make it but there are others. Don't give him the benefit of any doubt though, will you? After all, it's not normal.

God, why am I defending Gallagher? - I don't know him. But I do hate all this jumping to conclusions and general hate for anyone who gives a slight opportunity for it.
The whole point is that he didn't give Lance the benefit of the doubt. There wasn't any doubt at all for him. It was undeniable that he was clean.
 
Jul 21, 2012
9,860
0
0
Back on topic. I think sky will take doping to new heights in 2015.

They got lazy and didn't realize the arms race would make other teams catch up. However with Brailsfords talk about improving their training and looking to other sports for new marginal gains I feel like they are going to step it up now.
 
the sceptic said:
Back on topic. I think sky will take doping to new heights in 2015.

They got lazy and didn't realize the arms race would make other teams catch up. However with Brailsfords talk about improving their training and looking to other sports for new marginal gains I feel like they are going to step it up now.
I think 2015 will bring some new levels of ridiculous performance. If we're talking about people winning the Giro-Tour double or winning all 3 GTs, you know there's some special sauce being brewed somewhere.
 
Technically the Giro-Tour double has already been done.
Sure, there might have been doping involved:

It was reported in the Rome newspaper, La Repubblica, in January 2000 that Francesco Conconi, a professor at the University of Ferrara involved with administering erythropoietin (EPO) to riders on the Carrera team with which Roche had some of his best years, had provided riders including Roche with EPO. Roche denied the allegations.[
However, it might just as much - if not more - been because of the (lack of) competition:

Roche finished the Giro exhausted but favourite for the Tour de France. Following Bernard Hinault's retirement, Laurent Fignon's choppy form and with Greg LeMond injured following an accidental shooting while hunting, the 1987 Tour was open.
So if enough riders are tired/accidentally gets shot leading up to one of the races everything is possible. :D



As for 2015 having the cleanest peoloton ever. Naah, I don't think so! That was probably back at some point during the 19th Century when there simply weren't the same amount as drugs as there are today.
 
Oct 16, 2010
19,912
1
0
Cookson seems to have restored the formula "produce X amount of low-profile positives per year = we're credible!"
The only question is to which team/riders will UCI bring the pain this year in order to maintain their quota.
 
santa

the sceptic said:
Back on topic. I think sky will take doping to new heights in 2015.
santa was kind to myself...........................similarly it could well turn out

to be true..............things are looking up and we will see a more 'honest'

cleaner 2015.....................with team sky/garmin showing the way

Mark L
 
Wow, only just read the discussion about Gallagher from yesterday.

I knew what wrinklyvet was but going a full page trying to deny that someone who said it was a fact Armstrong was clean, and outright lied on his behalf, was defending armstrong, and trying to claim they were forced to.do.so by libel laws, I think previous Joachim and bpc accounts were dealt with for.a lot less.

Clearly just here to disrupt the forum.
 
the sceptic said:
Back on topic. I think sky will take doping to new heights in 2015. .
Look, lord knows it's very unpleasant what those bullies are being allowed to get away with, and cycling cannot hope to be cured until it's all fully exposed.
But if the topic is simply going to be about you squeezing digs at froome and sky on random occasions, maybe it should have a different title.
 
The Hitch said:
Wow, only just read the discussion about Gallagher from yesterday.

I knew what wrinklyvet was but going a full page trying to deny that someone who said it was a fact Armstrong was clean, and outright lied on his behalf, was defending armstrong, and trying to claim they were forced to.do.so by libel laws, I think previous Joachim and bpc accounts were dealt with for.a lot less.

Clearly just here to disrupt the forum.
Try not to bully - we all have a point of view and I am entitled to mine and to express it fairly. You don't have to agree any more than I agree with everything everyone else says. Why do you think you all agree with each other 90% of the time? Because the environment is mostly unwelcoming and people can't be bothered with it.

If you really want to go back to the libel point may I add that it occurs to me that in the situation in 2009 it's quite possible that not only Gallagher but also his editor had an input on what his article came out like. The fact that it turned out he was wrong is beside the point.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
BlueRoads The Clinic 164
Similar threads
State of the peloton 2021

ASK THE COMMUNITY