2015 Dauphiné, stage 5: Digne-les-Bains > Pra-Loup 161km

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VayaVayaVaya said:
Rollthedice said:
This was not your usual Froome. In fact Froome is not Froome from Romandie last year. Still a good GC rider but yo-yoing in form, climbing power and TT. Far from the dawg of 2013. It will be a struggle for him to podium Le Tour.
You guys are hilarious. Froome attacks too early and hard, Froome attacks too late, Froome is boring, Froome attacks too often, Froome is done.

There is a reason Contador respects him so much. I would Contador and assume that Froome is a very real threat. You guys keep acting like it's a given that Froome is washed up. In 2013, he crushed everyone. In 2014, he looked to be in the same form until he crashed in the Dauphine, still looked pretty good afterward, crashed out of the Tour, came back from injury to place a very respectable 2nd (by only 1'10", beating Purito and Valverde in their specialty GT) to a very much in-form (despite his claims) Contador, dropped Contador early in the season this year, and just got beaten by one guy's counterattack today. You guys are wayyy overplaying all this.
Remind me what Froome did in the first half of 2014 apart from a TUE fuelled win over the likes of Simon Spilak in Romandie. I don't recall his 2014 as anywhere close to the previous year.
 
Re: Re:

Swifty's Cakes said:
Remind me what Froome did in the first half of 2014 apart from a TUE fuelled win over the likes of Simon Spilak in Romandie. I don't recall his 2014 as anywhere close to the previous year.
Won on Green mountain and the Tour of Oman and won the first two stages of the Dauphine. By any metric, 2014 was not as successful as 2013 and you would naturally expect some regression to the mean due to crashes or luck. But his form was definitely menacing until he started falling off all the time. No excuses for that, but to discount his entire 2014 like so many are doing is fanciful IMO.
 
Re: Re:

djpbaltimore said:
Swifty's Cakes said:
Remind me what Froome did in the first half of 2014 apart from a TUE fuelled win over the likes of Simon Spilak in Romandie. I don't recall his 2014 as anywhere close to the previous year.
Won on Green mountain and the Tour of Oman and won the first two stages of the Dauphine. By any metric, 2014 was not as successful as 2013 and you would naturally expect some regression to the mean due to crashes or luck. But his form was definitely menacing until he started falling off all the time. No excuses for that, but to discount his entire 2014 like so many are doing is fanciful IMO.
Agreed.
 
Aug 4, 2011
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Re: Re:

djpbaltimore said:
ray j willings said:
Yeah his injury was so bad that at the stage up to - Finaut-Émosson The Sky train put the hurt on and with 1km to go Froome put in a sprint/dig to try and catch Bertie.
Do you really think Sky would have put the hurt on if Froome was injured ?

I call it as I see it. Like I said Froome is a great rider but you can't keep hanging on to 2013.
I also said that I think if Sky change there tactics then Froome may yet do something in this race.
Its no good putting the hurt down if they are hurting their number one rider.
They need a new tactic. Get Froome to the last 3K not so tired and he will be a danger to anyone.

cheers
Keeping a high pace is exactly how I would defend the jersey with an injured rider. It dissuades attacks from the opposition. Any other tactic would've signaled the opposition that he was ripe for the plucking. Would a mentally beaten man attack out of his group like that? I don't think so. It looks more like a rider who was slightly off his game due to the aftereffects of his fall, trying to use his team as much as possible. That is racing.
Good point. But he could not have been that badly injured, Sky/Froome dropped almost everyone on that climb.
That was the usual Sky eyeballs out tempo Only Bertie and Talansky rode with and went past Froome.
Froome Then put in a big dig and tried to chase Bertie down with around 1km to go. That's not the form of a injured man.
 
Re: Re:

ray j willings said:
That's not the form of a injured man.
Do you understand the fact that the injured body can behave variously, depending on the extent of injuries, individual predispositions and a lot of other factors? Sometimes the loss may be minimal, but it doesn't imply injuries didn't have influcence.
 
Aug 4, 2011
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Re: Re:

VayaVayaVaya said:
Rollthedice said:
This was not your usual Froome. In fact Froome is not Froome from Romandie last year. Still a good GC rider but yo-yoing in form, climbing power and TT. Far from the dawg of 2013. It will be a struggle for him to podium Le Tour.
You guys are hilarious. Froome attacks too early and hard, Froome attacks too late, Froome is boring, Froome attacks too often, Froome is done.

There is a reason Contador respects him so much. I would Contador and assume that Froome is a very real threat. You guys keep acting like it's a given that Froome is washed up. In 2013, he crushed everyone. In 2014, he looked to be in the same form until he crashed in the Dauphine, still looked pretty good afterward, crashed out of the Tour, came back from injury to place a very respectable 2nd (by only 1'10", beating Purito and Valverde in their specialty GT) to a very much in-form (despite his claims) Contador, dropped Contador early in the season this year, and just got beaten by one guy's counterattack today. You guys are wayyy overplaying all this.

Did you see Berties knee after the tour. He was injured and he was no way in top form at last years Vuelta.
You can't know that. He definitely lost his pre tour form. He was in immense form up until the tour crash.

The day before you say Froome dropped Bertie,,,Bertie dropped Froome and from nearly 10km out.
Bertie also beat Froome in the TT in the very same race. In-fact if Bertie had not eased up when he won his mountain stage he would have won the overall easy. Go check the Footage.

I agree though that Bertie regards Froome his greatest rival. It cost Bertie the Dauphine last year.
I also agree and think Froome is in not that bad form.
 
Aug 31, 2012
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Re: Re:

ray j willings said:
djpbaltimore said:
ray j willings said:
Yeah his injury was so bad that at the stage up to - Finaut-Émosson The Sky train put the hurt on and with 1km to go Froome put in a sprint/dig to try and catch Bertie.
Do you really think Sky would have put the hurt on if Froome was injured ?

I call it as I see it. Like I said Froome is a great rider but you can't keep hanging on to 2013.
I also said that I think if Sky change there tactics then Froome may yet do something in this race.
Its no good putting the hurt down if they are hurting their number one rider.
They need a new tactic. Get Froome to the last 3K not so tired and he will be a danger to anyone.

cheers
Keeping a high pace is exactly how I would defend the jersey with an injured rider. It dissuades attacks from the opposition. Any other tactic would've signaled the opposition that he was ripe for the plucking. Would a mentally beaten man attack out of his group like that? I don't think so. It looks more like a rider who was slightly off his game due to the aftereffects of his fall, trying to use his team as much as possible. That is racing.
Good point. But he could not have been that badly injured, Sky/Froome dropped almost everyone on that climb.
That was the usual Sky eyeballs out tempo Only Bertie and Talansky rode with and went past Froome.
Froome Then put in a big dig and tried to chase Bertie down with around 1km to go. That's not the form of a injured man.
That's the thing though. When guys like Talansky, Kelderman, Teejay today are there, how strong can the pace really be.
 
Aug 4, 2011
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Re: Re:

Anderis said:
ray j willings said:
That's not the form of a injured man.
Do you understand the fact that the injured body can behave variously, depending on the extent of injuries, individual predispositions and a lot of other factors? Sometimes the loss may be minimal, but it doesn't imply injuries didn't have influcence.
Take a look at the stage ,I have seen it many times. Froome looks easy all the way to the top. Riders getting dropped left right and centre, 1km to go, Boom goes Froome after Bertie. IMO he cannot be that badly injured. He /Sky train dropped just about every rider in the race. IMO if he was injured it had minimal impact if any.
 
Re: Re:

ray j willings said:
VayaVayaVaya said:
Rollthedice said:
This was not your usual Froome. In fact Froome is not Froome from Romandie last year. Still a good GC rider but yo-yoing in form, climbing power and TT. Far from the dawg of 2013. It will be a struggle for him to podium Le Tour.
You guys are hilarious. Froome attacks too early and hard, Froome attacks too late, Froome is boring, Froome attacks too often, Froome is done.

There is a reason Contador respects him so much. I would Contador and assume that Froome is a very real threat. You guys keep acting like it's a given that Froome is washed up. In 2013, he crushed everyone. In 2014, he looked to be in the same form until he crashed in the Dauphine, still looked pretty good afterward, crashed out of the Tour, came back from injury to place a very respectable 2nd (by only 1'10", beating Purito and Valverde in their specialty GT) to a very much in-form (despite his claims) Contador, dropped Contador early in the season this year, and just got beaten by one guy's counterattack today. You guys are wayyy overplaying all this.

Did you see Berties knee after the tour. He was injured and he was no way in top form at last years Vuelta.
You can't know that. He definitely lost his pre tour form. He was in immense form up until the tour crash.

The day before you say Froome dropped Bertie,,,Bertie dropped Froome and from nearly 10km out.
Bertie also beat Froome in the TT in the very same race. In-fact if Bertie had not eased up when he won his mountain stage he would have won the overall easy. Go check the Footage.

I agree though that Bertie regards Froome his greatest rival. It cost Bertie the Dauphine last year.
I also agree and think Froome is in not that bad form.
I think we are in agreement here. If you recall, Contador at the time was claiming he was way off form, nowhere close to even thinking about the overall, maybe he'd be lucky and go for a stage win...when in reality, I am sure he knew all along that while the injury was no doubt real, the underlying fitness was still there and had not been drained by a rigorous Tour, since he missed most of it. Maybe he was not in Pre-Tour-Crash form, but he was way better than he let on. Anyways, my point was something I think you agree with, that people are erroneously discounting Froome based on some bad luck and strategic picking and choosing of results and circumstances.

Had Contador not ridden the Giro, I think he would have been the favorite. I currently think Froome is the favorite and getting beaten by TJ in the Dauphine doesn't change that. I think Nibali will be strong, too. Who knows about Quintana. I am not as sold on him as are others. Then again, Contador has already dipped into the red on a hard GT, Froome, I admit, is not in last year's Dauphine form, Nibali is even worse than he was in last year's Dauphine and a question mark, so it could be his year. I have no idea what kind of shape he is in, though.
 
Aug 4, 2011
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Serious Sam "That's the thing though. When guys like Talansky, Kelderman, Teejay today are there, how strong can the pace really be"
Good point and I can only judge from what I have seen. Most riders were getting dropped. Only TJ came round Froome .
Last year Talansky stayed on board the Sky train. It must be pretty fast. Teams know the Sky Tactic and yet most still get dropped.
Tour is still a few weeks away and today is no way a disaster for Froome. other riders do get better sometimes. We have to give TJ credit and Bardet. I mean Bertie wasn't on fire in the Giro. It all feels a bit up in the air with the main tour contenders right now.
Maybe we will see a new tour champion.
 
Aug 4, 2011
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VayaVayaVaya wrote
"I think we are in agreement here. If you recall, Contador at the time was claiming he was way off form, nowhere close to even thinking about the overall, maybe he'd be lucky and go for a stage win...when in reality, I am sure he knew all along that while the injury was no doubt real, the underlying fitness was still there and had not been drained by a rigorous Tour, since he missed most of it. Maybe he was not in Pre-Tour-Crash form, but he was way better than he let on. Anyways, my point was something I think you agree with, that people are erroneously discounting Froome based on some bad luck and strategic picking and choosing of results and circumstances.

Had Contador not ridden the Giro, I think he would have been the favorite. I currently think Froome is the favorite and getting beaten by TJ in the Dauphine doesn't change that. I think Nibali will be strong, too. Who knows about Quintana. I am not as sold on him as are others. Then again, Contador has already dipped into the red on a hard GT, Froome, I admit, is not in last year's Dauphine form, Nibali is even worse than he was in last year's Dauphine and a question mark, so it could be his year. I have no idea what kind of shape he is in, though"

I agree. I think Unless Froome has a disaster in this race I think he will be most peoples favourite.
IMO though Froome always has a bad day or 2 [ 2013 tour he lost time] and if Quintana is in good shape he could take some serious time.
Nibs is still yet to prove himself in the mountains against Froome ,Bertie etc ...unknown factor.

Bertie I have no idea what shape he will be in.

Don't forget some else could step up and win. TJ , Bardet even Talansky [ I would not write him off just yet]
The tour could be one of the best for years

And don't forget Valverde ,,,,,I almost did
 
According to some of some the sages on here Froome is finished, Nibali is on a holiday, Valverde is taking a break and of course Contador would eat them for breakfast. Lets see what happens on Saturday although even then it is ultimately only showing us "possibly" where the riders form is at the moment.
 
Jul 12, 2013
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Re: Re:

Bushman said:
Ataraxus said:
TJ was very strong today. Catalunya and today is an indication that he has upped the game this year. I think he might surprise us all in the Tour, perhaps even beat at least one of the 4 top guns.
How is Catalunya an indication of anything? He was dropped on one of the first stages and wasn't a gc threat when he took his win. It was a nice stage win, but Porte and Contador surely didn't care about him. Last year he was 3rd overall in Catalunya and won a stage despite being high up on gc.

I don't know what you mean by the phrase in bold exactly but Contador surely wanted to get the stage win from him and simply couldn't.
With two to go, after he launched his attack, Contador was only 5 seconds behind TJ and couldn't close the gap. Au contraire, the gap opened a bit more at the end. And TJ celebrated in the last 50 meters and was in attack mode for a longer time than Contador.
Ok, we can't possibly know their exact forms at that stage (the same as we can't know in the Dauphine) but TJ's ride in those two stages has been in par with Contador and Froome, perhaps a little bit better.
Last year we couldn't see anything cause of the fog.
 
Great win by Bardet. Froome and TJVG also looking on track for the Tour. Nibali looked to be riding within himself and did not want to put in big efforts. Bardet would also be very happy with that ride before the Tour and took advantage of knowing the tricky descent very well.
 
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IamIronMan said:
Thanks for the link. What a strange but interesting stage. Wouldn't read anything into the rides by the big two. Froome, good legs but not quite there yet and Nibali, well what can you say. It's almost as if he was checking his watts and when he hit them, he was told to pull over and be a tourist. If he goes chasing motorbikes again though and it works, I seriously wouldn't count him out come July.

Brilliant ride by Bardet. Perfectly read and rode. I really hope he can make a show on Saturday.

Really liking the young talent of climbers out there at the moment. Bardet, Yates and Meintjes today were all brilliant. Maybe a thread on that anyone?
 
Just watched the whole thing on YouTube. I have to say, that descent by Bardet was one of the more enjoyable bits of cycling I've seen in a long time. Skill rules. And really enjoyed the commentators watching him, Kirby was just laughing about how fast he was taking it, really enjoying watching as well. I know that guy gets a hard time on this board but that was fun to listen to as well. Great stuff from Bardet.
 
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Velolover2 said:
Good stage. Tejay was really the strongest on that climb. Intxausti didn't wanted to cooperate, constantly sitting on Tejay's wheel. He could have gained time on Froome too.
Intxausti was hanging on for dear life. I don't think he could cooperate.
 

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