2015 Dauphiné, stage 8: Mont Blanc > Modane Valfréjus 156km

[ray j willings]

I apologise for my massive error. Indeed the guilt will live with me for the rest of my life. I did without thinking omit the many and truly great victories of Mr Froome a man who "without doubt" is the greatest GT rider in the History of Sky. The greatest.
Once again I am deeply deeply "so deep" deeply sorry. I shall sacrifice a small woodland creature to pay for the greatest of sins.

 

[Tank Engine]

Re:

I think he [TJ] did hesitate somewhat initially and then made a big effort, but couldn't quite close the gap

Possibly a hesitation, possibly reaction time+Froome being more explosive. I couldn't really tell. Hesitation would seem strange though in such a situation.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re:

I apologise for my massive error. Indeed the guilt will live with me for the rest of my life. I did without thinking omit the many and truly great victories of Mr Froome a man who "without doubt" is the greatest GT rider in the History of Sky. The greatest.
Once again I am deeply deeply "so deep" deeply sorry. I shall sacrifice a small woodland creature to pay for the greatest of sins.

You are forgiven but please save the small woodland creature!

 

[burning]

Re:

It is a pity for Intxausti, but it is always the same with the people that rode the Giro, very well in Dauphiné except the last day. Too close to the Giro... and the other people is getting better shape day by day.

Yeah, like Kelderman in last year.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Re: Re:

Doesn't stop you flapping your mouth though does it? Never has the description 'senior MEMBER' been more apposite. Calling anyone who disagrees with your bigotry uninformed. Nice style

Hey look another Skybot sock puppet. Either Froome has won something or the Tour is coming up or both. Otherwise you people hang out on Sesame Street where you belong.

 

[roundabout]

Re: Re:

I think he [TJ] did hesitate somewhat initially and then made a big effort, but couldn't quite close the gap

Possibly a hesitation, possibly reaction time+Froome being more explosive. I couldn't really tell. Hesitation would seem strange though in such a situation.

Maybe he was not certain whether to try to stick with Froome at all cost or set his own pace and limit the losses.

Still strange that his second effort after Froome's attack seemed stronger than the first.

 

[rick james]

Ray J belives his/hers own lies

 

[Ataraxus]

Geez. I've been involved myself in the past, but this Froome-Contador debate is getting really boring. I will root for Quintana to smash them both in the mountains so the fanboys will shut up.

Edit:
I forgot. Contador fanboys will come up with excuses of the Giro in the legs still

 

[ray j willings]

Re:

Ray J belives his/hers own lies

Can you expand ....

 

[del1962]

Re: Re:

Well, I think today Poels has secured himself a tour spot.

He looks like a clone of Froome. A lot of looking at stems from Poels today.

That was what I was thinking.

Arguably, Sky's tactics are boring, but they do seem to work. Just measure the sustainable watts of a rider and have him maximize that during the climb. Know the recuperation of the rider, take that into your planning (I think Poels dropping sooner in earlier stages might be planned for this final weekend.) and have him go all out if the next days are not vital. Poels could give it all at the end, he does not have to conserve himself, just as Froome seemed to refrain from going all out yesterday as he had to do it today as well. Yesterday, I think he sustained his output to finish, today he gave it all from ~250 meters out.

I think that banning the meters would not even have that much of an impact on the tactics, it would just make it a bit more error-prone.

It's the same effective and incredibly boring tactic as Postal used and Astana has used. It kills racing on every level unless you're rooting for a rider/team instead of a great race. Then it seems brilliant.

Of course it's impossible to discuss the tactic in any real sense outside the clinic as it's not possible otherwise.

If you cant discuss tactics without clinic references then don't do it here, you know fine well where you can post your opinions

 

[WillemS]

Re: Re:

It's the same effective and incredibly boring tactic as Postal used and Astana has used. It kills racing on every level unless you're rooting for a rider/team instead of a great race. Then it seems brilliant.

Of course it's impossible to discuss the tactic in any real sense outside the clinic as it's not possible otherwise.

I disagree. The tactic of using the maximum sustainable power of cyclists would work regardless, but whether or not it's effective in today's cycling and whether or not the tactic would be this dominant is indeed clinic material.

 

[rm7]

Re: 2015 Dauphiné, stage 8: Mont Blanc > Modane Valfréjus 15

People are talking way too much about Intxaustis performance... Since when have he been able på climb like Froome and the other top guys??? He's a decent climber, who could do top10 at most in a GT.

We could analyse the performance if it was Landa or Aru riding the Dauphine.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

ofcourse not, intxausti is just giro supercompensation
Kelderman last year was able to hold to Froome/Contador alien acceleration in one of the first mt stages.

every year there is a giro supercompensation guy who does well

 

[rm7]

Re:

ofcourse not, intxausti is just giro supercompensation
Kelderman last year was able to hold to Froome/Contador alien acceleration in one of the first mt stages.

every year there is a giro supercompensation guy who does well

Was he? I only seem to remember him catching them when they slowed down. Everybody dropped when Froome/Contador accelerated all the time.

But i see your point, but I just don't think it's relevant to see how a rider like Intxausti do after the Giro, if you want to draw conclusion about Contador. It would be more compareble if it was a stronger GT rider.

 

[coinneach]

Re: Re:

Must say, if I were TJ I would not be thanking Nibali tonight.

The best moment of the stage for me, though, was probably the WTF?! look Vvde gave Nibali and that little shake of the head. Absolutely priceless - especially coming from Vvde!

Yeah that one was good. I don't know what was Nibali doing setting the pace on the flatish parts. In the end it only helped screwing Tejay.

Did anyone else see Nibali talking to Froome before he went to the front?
I expect the conversation was along the lines of "could you do with a hand shaking this up without your usual teammates?"
"Yes, and I'll pay you back"
"You got it!"
It'll be fascinating watching the allegiances in this year tour!

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re: Re:

ofcourse not, intxausti is just giro supercompensation
Kelderman last year was able to hold to Froome/Contador alien acceleration in one of the first mt stages.

every year there is a giro supercompensation guy who does well

Was he? I only seem to remember him catching them when they slowed down. Everybody dropped when Froome/Contador accelerated all the time.

But i see your point, but I just don't think it's relevant to see how a rider like Intxausti do after the Giro, if you want to draw conclusion about Contador. It would be more compareble if it was a stronger GT rider.

Watch again. He did the first accelartion because VdBroeck let a gap, but then Froome put in a 2nd acceleration and Kelderman was the only one following him and Contador until like 250m to go.

 

[rm7]

Re: Re:

Must say, if I were TJ I would not be thanking Nibali tonight.

The best moment of the stage for me, though, was probably the WTF?! look Vvde gave Nibali and that little shake of the head. Absolutely priceless - especially coming from Vvde!

Yeah that one was good. I don't know what was Nibali doing setting the pace on the flatish parts. In the end it only helped screwing Tejay.

Did anyone else see Nibali talking to Froome before he went to the front?
I expect the conversation was along the lines of "could you do with a hand shaking this up without your usual teammates?"
"Yes, and I'll pay you back"
"You got it!"
It'll be fascinating watching the allegiances in this year tour!

Why would Nibali and Froome have an alliance? Nibali have to do everything that Froome doesn't like to beat him at the Tour.

 

[oncehadhair]

Very impressed by Simon Yates' performance.

 

[Mozart92]

Re: Re:

Why does Froome look down every two seconds? Is that a compulsive tic?

Instructions from the mothership: "Human levels adviced."

Seriously man XD He just keep watching down every 2 seconds. Is he counting how many inches divide him from the finishing line?

 

[JRanton]

Re: 2015 Dauphiné, stage 8: Mont Blanc > Modane Valfréjus 15

Froome's recovery after hard stages (at Andalucia and Dauphine) has impressed me this season. The top level isn't quite there (yet) but he should be pretty confident going into the Tour.

Poels has been the revelation for Sky (after being dropped in the TTT earlier in the week). Add G Thomas and a recovered Porte and they will do some damage in July.

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

Must say, if I were TJ I would not be thanking Nibali tonight.

The best moment of the stage for me, though, was probably the WTF?! look Vvde gave Nibali and that little shake of the head. Absolutely priceless - especially coming from Vvde!

Yeah that one was good. I don't know what was Nibali doing setting the pace on the flatish parts. In the end it only helped screwing Tejay.

Did anyone else see Nibali talking to Froome before he went to the front?
I expect the conversation was along the lines of "could you do with a hand shaking this up without your usual teammates?"
"Yes, and I'll pay you back"
"You got it!"
It'll be fascinating watching the allegiances in this year tour!

Why would Nibali and Froome have an alliance? Nibali have to do everything that Froome doesn't like to beat him at the Tour.

Perhaps because they don't share a language with Quintana and Contador? Also if Nibali is wise, he would recognise he is probably the weakest of the top four and is there because of his palmares rather than head to head record with the others, so therefore for him in particular, a favour from Froome in the bank is probably worth having in exchange for five to ten minutes of whittling down the pack.

In a pre-Dauphine interview Nibali said Froome was his "friend", and a "good guy" (or similar).

 

[movingtarget]

Re: 2015 Dauphiné, stage 8: Mont Blanc > Modane Valfréjus 15

Froome's recovery after hard stages (at Andalucia and Dauphine) has impressed me this season. The top level isn't quite there (yet) but he should be pretty confident going into the Tour.

Poels has been the revelation for Sky (after being dropped in the TTT earlier in the week). Add G Thomas and a recovered Porte and they will do some damage in July.

Poels is underrated. Sky are looking good for the Tour.

 

[greenedge]

Re: Re:

[quote="

But regardless: domination is never fun to watch, and when the person who is dominating has a personality it's difficult to like and rides in a style that is visibly painful to watch, from a team tactic that is not very entertaining, I don't enjoy it, and since I watch bike racing for entertainment, I stop watching. I end up getting into arguments because I tend to stick to my guns. And so, to avoid getting annoyed, frustrated and getting into arguments, I've basically stopped watching races Froome enters, and only occasionally dip my toes back into the world of Froome. And am usually very quickly reminded why I normally steer clear of that minefield.

But at least the win wasn't that dominant, it was also entertaining

 

[cellardoor]

Re: Re:

Must say, if I were TJ I would not be thanking Nibali tonight.

The best moment of the stage for me, though, was probably the WTF?! look Vvde gave Nibali and that little shake of the head. Absolutely priceless - especially coming from Vvde!

Yeah that one was good. I don't know what was Nibali doing setting the pace on the flatish parts. In the end it only helped screwing Tejay.

Did anyone else see Nibali talking to Froome before he went to the front?
I expect the conversation was along the lines of "could you do with a hand shaking this up without your usual teammates?"
"Yes, and I'll pay you back"
"You got it!"
It'll be fascinating watching the allegiances in this year tour!

Why would Nibali and Froome have an alliance? Nibali have to do everything that Froome doesn't like to beat him at the Tour.

Perhaps because they don't share a language with Quintana and Contador? Also if Nibali is wise, he would recognise he is probably the weakest of the top four and is there because of his palmares rather than head to head record with the others, so therefore for him in particular, a favour from Froome in the bank is probably worth having in exchange for five to ten minutes of whittling down the pack.

In a pre-Dauphine interview Nibali said Froome was his "friend", and a "good guy" (or similar).

I see an alliance between Contador and Nibali as more likely. Contador with his Giro fatigue and Nibali are likely to be the weakest climbers of the big 4 and at the same time are the better two at finding unusual ways to win (long attacks, descents, bad weather etc). It could well turn out to be in their mutual interest to help each other in a long attack towards the end of the race. With a few notable exceptions, alliances tend to come about because of interests aligning as a race develops, rather than because they happen to be friends off the bike.

Edit to add: I think the reason Nibali went to the front was not primarily to help Scarponi, but to give himself a legitimate reason to peel off. Nobody can say he was dropped or disrespected the race or anything by peeling off after putting in a massive turn for his teammate. At the same time it gave him a chance to test his legs without going head to head with Froome. I suspect Scarponi knew he didn't have the legs to win but played along with the game.

 

[No_Balls]

Re: Re:

Why does Froome look down every two seconds? Is that a compulsive tic?

Instructions from the mothership: "Human levels adviced."

Seriously man XD He just keep watching down every 2 seconds. Is he counting how many inches divide him from the finishing line?

For marginal gains? Good old Dr Ferrari believes it stems from a special breathing technique:

Bowing the head facilitates the elevation of the diaphragm, further encouraging the complete emptying of the lungs: the anterior myofascial tension (from the jaw to the symphysis pubis), proper of the position in hyperextension of the head of the rider looking forward, is in fact reduced, thus facilitating the full expiration.

A complete elevation of the diaphragm reduces the intra-abdominal pressure, effectively promoting the venous and lymphatic return from the lower limbs, whose action, relieved from toxic elements, becomes "lighter".

http://www.53x12.com/do/show?page=article&id=130

CF himself says it is a habit but i cant escape the feeling that the mastergainer Brailsford will leave no stones unturned when it comes to perfect his adepts. Isolated motorhomes for Richie, breathing techniques for Froomey...