2015 Gent - Wevelgem, 29/03, 239km 1.UWT

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

It wasn't (just) because they were destroyed, it was because everyone was afraid of Thomas and wanted him to chase, while he had closed down all the previous attacks. If he had wanted, he could easily have caught Paolini, but he didn't.

Completely agree with this. Vanmarcke had nothing left to give, but the other four could have got onto Paolini if they weren't all looking for someone else to do the chasing.

...there's a reason that others look for someone else to chase in a situation like that...maybe because they know that if they're the chaser, they have no shot at winning the race if they tug everyone else there...if they indeed have the legs to do it, which is anything but certain on a day like that...

Of course, and Paolini took advantage of the uncertainty. But I think was tactics and a brilliantly timed move that won it for him, not necessarily because he was the strongest.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Re: Re:

It wasn't (just) because they were destroyed, it was because everyone was afraid of Thomas and wanted him to chase, while he had closed down all the previous attacks. If he had wanted, he could easily have caught Paolini, but he didn't.

Completely agree with this. Vanmarcke had nothing left to give, but the other four could have got onto Paolini if they weren't all looking for someone else to do the chasing.

...there's a reason that others look for someone else to chase in a situation like that...maybe because they know that if they're the chaser, they have no shot at winning the race if they tug everyone else there...if they indeed have the legs to do it, which is anything but certain on a day like that...

Of course, and Paolini took advantage of the uncertainty. But I think was tactics and a brilliantly timed move that won it for him, not necessarily because he was the strongest.

I agree with this completely, because Paolini clearly was not the strongest legs...strongest tactics yes, but legs, no...but that still doesn't preclude his calculation that they would hesitate, and that just enough hesitation, would mean that everyone else's destroyed legs wouldn't be enough to catch him.

I'm really reacting to the idea that QS did something wrong. That's just ridiculous, considering what had transpired prior to crossing the line. Sure, Vandenbergh rode strong at the wrong time early on, but after that, he killed himself to give his team a chance, and I am betting that when Paolini went, he was the last person to be able to chase him back down.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Re: Re:

It wasn't (just) because they were destroyed, it was because everyone was afraid of Thomas and wanted him to chase, while he had closed down all the previous attacks. If he had wanted, he could easily have caught Paolini, but he didn't.

They were all destroyed, including Paolini. That race was brutal, and they had all chased, suffered punctures, crashes, massive winds...to suggest that he could have easily caught Paolini is interesting, because if you watched, he did try at one point, but it was too late...but I guess that's just stupid luck on Paolini's part...no way he could have imagined that his attack would be the winning one...oh, wait, maybe he did have reason to think he could pull it off...you know, having ridden with everyone else in the group for a K or 2...

Because I implied that he didn't

Perhaps you could pack your strawmen together and actually address what I wrote...

I did address your point, and if you were watching the race, Thomas did give an effort at one point to close it down...and he didn't do it...clearly indicating that he had the legs to "easily" close it down, and just didn't...

 

[Vino's Mum]

Re: Re:

They were all destroyed, including Paolini. That race was brutal, and they had all chased, suffered punctures, crashes, massive winds...to suggest that he could have easily caught Paolini is interesting, because if you watched, he did try at one point, but it was too late...but I guess that's just stupid luck on Paolini's part...no way he could have imagined that his attack would be the winning one...oh, wait, maybe he did have reason to think he could pull it off...you know, having ridden with everyone else in the group for a K or 2...

I think Paolini was the only one who could've pulled off that move because he's the only one all the others thought would be brought back easily enough.

Also, as (I think) Netserk suggests, I guess they all thought a) Thomas was the strongest, and b) as Thomas was always the one to chase down any attack, they left him to it. A few seconds of waiting for Etixx to chase for a change, and it was too late.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

I agree with this completely, because Paolini clearly was not the strongest legs...strongest tactics yes, but legs, no...but that still doesn't preclude his calculation that they would hesitate, and that just enough hesitation, would mean that everyone else's destroyed legs wouldn't be enough to catch him.

I'm really reacting to the idea that QS did something wrong. That's just ridiculous, considering what had transpired prior to crossing the line. Sure, Vandenbergh rode strong at the wrong time early on, but after that, he killed himself to give his team a chance, and I am betting that when Paolini went, he was the last person to be able to chase him back down.

I agree that in the end of the race it was very difficut for them to control or to use the extra man. They probably lost it when Vandenbergh dropped Stybar and forced Terpstra to solo across to the break (no doubt burning a few matches). That was truly idiotic.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Re: Re:

They were all destroyed, including Paolini. That race was brutal, and they had all chased, suffered punctures, crashes, massive winds...to suggest that he could have easily caught Paolini is interesting, because if you watched, he did try at one point, but it was too late...but I guess that's just stupid luck on Paolini's part...no way he could have imagined that his attack would be the winning one...oh, wait, maybe he did have reason to think he could pull it off...you know, having ridden with everyone else in the group for a K or 2...

I think Paolini was the only one who could've pulled off that move because he's the only one all the others thought would be brought back easily enough.

Also, as (I think) Netserk suggests, I guess they all thought a) Thomas was the strongest, and b) as Thomas was always the one to chase down any attack, they left him to it. A few seconds of waiting for Etixx to chase for a change, and it was too late.

..."to chase for a change"...okay, I quit...you do realize who Thomas had been chasing before, right? Some are there to chase, and some are there to attack.

Thomas was clearly the strongest, so I guess it was in Etixx's best interest to tow him to the win, and clearly Paolini is too stupid to work out that kind of calculus, and time an attack to win, and then win..

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Re: Re:

I agree with this completely, because Paolini clearly was not the strongest legs...strongest tactics yes, but legs, no...but that still doesn't preclude his calculation that they would hesitate, and that just enough hesitation, would mean that everyone else's destroyed legs wouldn't be enough to catch him.

I'm really reacting to the idea that QS did something wrong. That's just ridiculous, considering what had transpired prior to crossing the line. Sure, Vandenbergh rode strong at the wrong time early on, but after that, he killed himself to give his team a chance, and I am betting that when Paolini went, he was the last person to be able to chase him back down.

I agree that in the end of the race it was very difficut for them to control or to use the extra man. They probably lost it when Vandenbergh dropped Stybar and forced Terpstra to solo across to the break (no doubt burning a few matches). That was truly idiotic.

Idiotic, or just bad timing, and I'm choosing the latter in that instance. I feel certain that Vandenbergh was riding like he was supposed to at the time, and Stybar flatted at the wrong time. That is not an unprecedented event in a classic or semi. This isn't a GT, where you pull the whole team back, and the peloton waits for the other team's GT leader.

 

[Vino's Mum]

Re: Re:

..."to chase for a change"...okay, I quit...you do realize who Thomas had been chasing before, right? Some are there to chase, and some are there to attack.

Thomas was clearly the strongest, so I guess it was in Etixx's best interest to tow him to the win, and clearly Paolini is too stupid to work out that kind of calculus, and time an attack to win, and then win..

lol. Yeah, sure, if an Etixx rider goes, it's always going to be Thomas to chase, especially as the rest didn't have the legs. (Unless it's Omloop, then Stijn will chase his own team-mate, obviously). My point was, that because both Etixx riders were together, Thomas thought it was up to one of them to do some work, for a change.

 

[De Snelle Duif]

Stijn really needs to go to another team where he can at least attack freely without hurting others' chances. i can't really blame him for it though, he is rreally underrated by the Quickstep management: Sure he doesn't have a finishing punch but they say the same about Stannard.

Roelandts really amazed me today and so did Debusschere. Glad they're having a damage-free year.

 

[Põhja Konn]

For me, Paolinis celebration was quite conclusive, pointing to his head with one hand and to his chest/heart with the other. Don't know how much he knew about what was going on in the group behind, but he sure knew what brought him the victory.

 

[samhocking]

Clever racing by Paolini who clearly wasn't the strongest earlier in the race. Slightly lucky with when and how Thomas & Ettix played off each other in the end perhaps, but worked out perfectly for him.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

Not a ton of wins in recent races, but they sure got a lot of WT points the last few weeks. Uran scoring points he did not at Tirreno or Catalunya last year, Kwiatkowski 2nd at Paris-Nice, 2nd and 3rd at E3 and today 2nd and 4th again.

sky is first with a large margin

First where?

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

And let me be clear, my posts started as a defense of Vandenbergh, who it is suggested, should have been the one to chase Paolini...and I just don't think that is a realistic critique. I got kind of side-tracked on some Thomas discussion, but that had nothing to do with my original point.

Thomas was clearly the strongest, but that is relative in this context, because they were all spent by the end, some just less than others.

But, as has been pointed out, Paolini pointed to his head and heart for a reason, and that's what makes bike racing beautiful on days like this. The strongest legs don't always win. Welcome to the beauty of bike racing. If I wanted to see strongest leg races, I'd watch a marathon.

 

[MagnusMagnussen]

Re: Re:

Not a ton of wins in recent races, but they sure got a lot of WT points the last few weeks. Uran scoring points he did not at Tirreno or Catalunya last year, Kwiatkowski 2nd at Paris-Nice, 2nd and 3rd at E3 and today 2nd and 4th again.

sky is first with a large margin

First where?

World Tour ranking i guess.

 

[Flamin]

Stijn was incredibly strong today. Don't forget he was the one who gave his wheel to Cav when he punctured, and at that point the peloton was being shattered in many groups. Cav was never to be seen again and Stijn somehow got back to the 2nd group, which then rejoined the 1st a bit later.

Regardless of him being able to catch Paolini or not, I think he felt he could win today and didn't want to completely give up on his own chances (despite the shitload of work he did today).

 

[DirtyWorks]

Re:

Clever racing by Paolini who clearly wasn't the strongest earlier in the race. Slightly lucky with when and how Thomas & Ettix played off each other in the end perhaps, but worked out perfectly for him.

This is why the sport can be so interesting. IMO, Paolini was strong enough. It was an extreme physical test.

 

[Mr.White]

Paolini the bearded master! Real masterpiece from him today, first with his bridging up to the group, than bluffing up the Kemmelberg, than one attack with Terpstra, than the false one with Thomas on his wheel, and then came THE REAL THING!

 

[Jagartrott]

Re:

Stijn was incredibly strong today. Don't forget he was the one who gave his wheel to Cav when he punctured, and at that point the peloton was being shattered in many groups. Cav was never to be seen again and Stijn somehow got back to the 2nd group, which then rejoined the 1st a bit later.

Regardless of him being able to catch Paolini or not, I think he felt he could win today and didn't want to completely give up on his own chances (despite the shitload of work he did today).

Agreed.
And besides, after such a race, why are some people highlighting who made which mistakes at which point, instead of highlighting all the positives?

 

[Kwibus]

Paolini pointed to his head because he rode smart. When he got dropped on the Kemmel they all thought he was done so he could sit in wheels a lot from that point on.
Him chasing back on to the group after the Kemmel, while Oss died trying to do so with a smaller gap might have been an indication he wasn't dead, but that he just misses the explosiveness/high wattage. His engine is huge though, just keeps on going.

This is pretty much what he said himself as well. The first 2 sentences that is. The last part is what was suggested by Sporza and makes quite a lot of sense.

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

Not a ton of wins in recent races, but they sure got a lot of WT points the last few weeks. Uran scoring points he did not at Tirreno or Catalunya last year, Kwiatkowski 2nd at Paris-Nice, 2nd and 3rd at E3 and today 2nd and 4th again.

sky is first with a large margin

First where?

World Tour ranking i guess.

After this race, the top 5 teams:

1 Team Sky 525 Porte (303), Thomas (184), Poels (36), Kiryienka (2)
2 Etixx-Quick Step 394 Urán (133), Kwiatkowski (89), Štybar (62), Terpstra (60), Trentin (50)
3 Team Katusha 303 Kristoff (133), Paolini (80), Špilak (78), Chernetskiy (8), Rodríguez (4)
4 Movistar Team 298 N. Quintana (106), Valverde (98), Fernández (52), G. Izagirre (32), Malori (10)
5 BMC Racing Team 240 Dennis (114), Evans (76), Atapuma (30), Oss (12), Van Avermaet (8)

And riders:

1 Richie Porte (AUS) Team Sky 303
2 Geraint Thomas (GBR) Team Sky 184
3 Domenico Pozzovivo (ITA) Ag2r-La Mondiale 136
4 Alexander Kristoff (NOR) Team Katusha 133
5 Rigoberto Urán (COL) Etixx-Quick Step 133

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Epic race

just.. epic

once more, i can see this image and this part of the race 100 times

 

[More Strides than Rides]

How can you all say Paolini wasn't the strongest? Sure, he's a smart racer, and was probably sandbagging from 25-5k to go, but the reason that move stuck was because he made it stick. And grow.

 

[Volderke]

Who else thinks this was one of the best races ever?

Who else has been enjoying this race and can do perfectly without all the post-analysis that can only degrade the beauty of the race as I saw it live...

 

[DirtyWorks]

Re:

How can you all say Paolini wasn't the strongest? Sure, he's a smart racer, and was probably sandbagging from 25-5k to go, but the reason that move stuck was because he made it stick. And grow.

Without a doubt, conditions forced the fittest. The race is supposed to be one for the sprinters after all!

IMO, the old idea that the cyclist that leaves something in the tank and gets others to "lick their plate clean" tends to win applies. He had to ride etix defensively, not just go head-to-head using fitness and it worked out this time. Inrng's summary is excellent in this regard.

 

[Sciatic]

Nice quote from Paolini in CN race summary: "“I looked at everyone in the face, and I saw we were all finished – alla frutta, as we say in Italian."
Alla frutta . . . I think I'll start using that